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Main Finn/John Boyega Episode IX Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by DailyPlunge, Jan 1, 2018.

?

Where will Finn be at the start of Episode IX

Poll closed Dec 21, 2019.
  1. A grunt for the Resistance

    20 vote(s)
    20.4%
  2. A leader of the Resistance

    64 vote(s)
    65.3%
  3. A spy

    5 vote(s)
    5.1%
  4. A Jedi student

    9 vote(s)
    9.2%
  1. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Unless you want to interpret his noticeably heightened reaction to is buddy trooper’s death at the beginning of TFA. That moment of empathy and compassion, followed by tragedy, was clearly an ‘awakening’ of sorts for him. That could be attributed to the Force. I’d personally prefer Finn simply be a ‘good person’. That anyone can be compassionate. You don’t need a super power. But the Force itself has always been a metaphor representing our hidden potential, so I guess it works alright.

    I agree though. The way it’s handled in TROS is largely incidental. And ostensibly having him be ‘closeted’ about it is rather inexplicable. It’s ratcheted drama that leads nowhere.
    Finn goes from this: “There is no fight against the First Order. Not one we can win.” To this: “Come get it.”

    Who he is at the completion of TFA is fundamentally different than who he is when he starts it. He begins that installment as someone who doesn’t see the point in fighting a battle you can’t win. The FO is unbeatable to him and Kylo Ren, as the face of that entity, is certainly unbeatable. So why needlessly throw your life away? Why not flee and live on?

    Finn doesn’t have to duel Kylo. He could drop that saber, abandon Rey, and make for the Falcon that’s just over the ridge. But he doesn’t. He stands his ground. He deliberately provokes a fight with an enemy he absolutely knows he can’t beat - that he absolutely knows is going to kill him. Why? “I made a choice. I wasn't gonna kill for them.” Because he’d found something to believe in. Something worth fighting for. Something worth dying for. That’s a MASSIVE shift in character. It’s a complete inversion.

    I’ve said it before and I’m sticking to it, Finn is my favorite character in TFA. There is some needless buffoonery tossed in there that makes me cringe, but I’m willing to overlook it for what I feel to be fantastic development and payoff. Some people say they get the “chills” when Rey ignites Luke’s saber. I get them when Finn does. When he effectively says “I don’t care who you are. If you want her, you’ll have to go through me.” THAT guy. That’s my guy. Give me that guy. He’s my hero.
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I was disappointed with how Finn's character trajectory didn't live up to what was established in The Force Awakens, and I don't think everyone needs to be a force user in Star Wars, but I admit I've been a bit of an apologist for Finn's character- if not even for the simple reason that I wanted him to have been better.

    Something in Boyega's interview really stuck out to me, though. Really put things into perspective.

    "Everybody knows."

    And he's right. It's kind of shameful that many of us fans have watched a character that so many kids probably looked up to and grew up with- someone whose representation was long deserved and much needed- and we just let him get almost erased.

    Even in The Rise of Skywalker, the best the movie can do is some confusing and vague hint that Finn could be force sensitive. Why? Why hold him back and still let him do nothing?

    Maybe you think I'm being too harsh. Maybe you disagree with me. But I still stand by this- everybody knows. Even at my most apologetic for the movie, I knew too.

    But personally, I think it's more important to see the issue for what it is, because it'll just keep happening otherwise.

    And I think the next step is for Daisy and Adam to come out in his support. But with that, I think we all do, too.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Personally, I hope to god empathy isn't something we need to associate with force use in the Star Wars lore.
    It could be associated with the force, sure. But then literally anything can. Why is Han Solo so good at flying? Why is Poe? SPACE MAGIC!!! It's all just so wishywashy in terms of what it's trying to do in classic JJ fashion. It's Schrodinger's Finn. He's both force sensitive and not at the same time until you open the mystery box and see.

    Finn still isn't fighting for anything but what HE wants. He doesn't do it to help the Resistance or because he wants to stop the FO. He's still just grabbing Rey's hand and doing it for her. That's where it is for me. At no point is he aligning himself with the good guys beyond Rey. He more or less leads Han and Chewie into a death trap with a lie to save Rey. Finn is a good character in TFA. But he's very flat in it and truthfully IMO is still morally ambiguous like ANH Han is. Except Han makes his return clear for the right reasons and then at the very end you see him embracing his role in the Rebellion. We don't get that with Finn. The easy answer to this for me is just remove where he says he's only there for Rey. I just want to see Finn with greater motivations than "Notice me Rey!" I feel the arc from TFA to TLJ worked in building Finn as the hero of the every man. It seems like Trevorrow's early script was working on doing something with that. That'd be something new and all his. Building on Finn as essentially something completely new in Star Wars. I don't think Finn is a bad character or anything. Well, TROS just used him as a puppy chasing after Rey's attention, but in the first two films I think he's a good character who flirts with great and had every chance to be great going into the third.
     
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  4. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    “I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.”

    The Force doesn’t grant empathy, but it does afford hypersensitivity to the condition of others around you. “I sense much fear in you.” The death of his comrade was shown to be monumentally affecting for him. *Maybe* that was his latent Force sensitivity at work.
    I’m not going to go so far as to say that’s really what JJ was hitting at with that moment, but if someone is looking for some sort of precedence, it kind of fits. Like Leia hearing Luke’s psychic SOS in ESB. That probably wasn’t necessarily meant at the time to imply that she was FS. But it certainly works that way now.
    Well, yeah. His trajectory as an evolving character revolves around his broadening of what that means. What he personally wants. First, he only cares about helping himself. Then he only cares about helping the people he loves. Then he eventually even cares about helping people whether he knows them or not. The Resistance then is just the vehicle that enables him to help the most people possible – saving what he loves rather than fighting what he hates.

    He’s an intrinsically kind and compassionate person. He wants to help, but doesn’t initially believe he can truly make a difference. His journey is in realizing that he can. However slight. However much he can help. Even if he fails in the end. It still matters to do the right thing and defend those who can’t defend themselves.
     
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  5. Trooper

    Trooper Rebel General

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    You know what else I love? The fact that Star Wars tried to "stand in solidarity" with John during his BLM speech.

    john.png

    And yet, in this interview, John blatantly calls out their antiblackness.

    It's almost comical how bad Lucasfilms looks here.
     
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  6. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    I dont follow gossip/entertainment news but I read the article on JB this week.
    First off, if true, anyone who crapped on JB online b/c of his ethnicity, before, during and after the ST are idiots.

    Am not privy to what JB was promised when he signed on to do the ST, but from this fan's perspective, FINN was an important secondary character to the story because ST has always been about the Skywalkers (Sequel Trilogy being Ben and Rey) and not Skywalkers + Finn.

    Not having an organized plan for the ST just doomed the Trilogy as each director/writer essentially were winging it without any road map to follow.
    The story line suffered and characters, including FINN, suffered (Leia, Han and Luke not reuniting was a huge mistake IMO).

    I would have preferred if JB would have stayed humble and took the high road instead of going on a race related rant. IMO people can say what they want to as long as they accept the consequences whether its merited or not. Calling out Disney will just get him blacklisted from future roles...its just politics 101.
    I read what he said...thought to myself, "yeah whatever" and that's it. Folks in Hollywood might not feel the same.
     
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  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Anyone who craps on anybody because of ethnicity are idiots.
    Is there absolutely no plausible way this trilogy could have ended with a ‘Finn Skywalker’?
    That’s why issues of this nature are referred to as ‘systemic’. The system, as an operational necessity, requires those in exploitable positions to never speak out about unfair treatment. To not upset the status quo. Because then things would have to change. The fear of professional retaliation is what keeps them in line. That's why whistleblower protection statutes exist.

    Or to put it in Star Wars terms, “How will the emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?” “Fear will keep the local systems in line.” How does the evil emperor intend to maintain control over his evil empire? By making the people so thoroughly terrified of retaliation, that no one would ever be brave enough to speak out again.
    Yikes, man. Yikes.
     
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  8. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    In all of the marketing for TFA, including interviews and promotional material, Finn was given AS MUCH promotion as Rey was. They were marketed as the Faces of the Sequel Trilogy, much like how Obi-Wan and Anakan were the faces of the PT era; Kylo was like Palpatine - just as important, but not the hero. This switched with two things: the first was the misdirect with the lightsaber at the end (which looking back is straight up insulting), and RJ deciding to focus on the parallels between Rey and Kylo. But that wasn't the original plan or promotion, that was an outgrowth.


    I mean, at the beginning of TFA Finn had as much of a chance to be a Skywalker as Rey did. The only reason people didn't consider Finn was because of race, as if that should somehow disqualify him. Had Finn been that blond-haired kid in some of the concept art, I guarantee you fans would have considered him just as likely to be Luke's kid as they did Rey.

    Heck, Finn Skywalker STILL makes more sense to me than Rey Skywalker ever did, and just as much sense as Rey Palpatine.

    I have a lot of feelings on what you said right here, and none of it positive being completely frank. Let me just say this - John Boyega's career will be just fine. Lucasfilm already showed solidarity with his stance on systematic racism and police brutality; to do anything against that will further prove any grievances JB has with Disney as a whole. They can't risk that type of publicity right now, so even if they are offended they'll let it slide. But John will be fine, and move onto better things.
     
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  9. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    I was enjoying your reply until the "you fans" part. I don't even know where to begin.

    Agree w/ TFA promos foreshadowed Finn eventually being a Jedi. Talk to RJ to see what happened.
    Finn as Luke or Leia's kid....Honestly that never crossed my mind. I'll bite though how would you explain Finn being a biological Skywalker.

    Cheers, KH
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2020 ---
    Can't figure out the multi-quotes...here's goes.

    1- Idiots goes without saying but I was specifically referring to JB and his "fan club". I didnt know of the online "hate" prior to this week.
    2- Finn Skywalker....boils down to storyline, character arc etc. I'd like it if it was done right (ie- Finn/Luke relation, sacrifice etc).
    3- JB can speak his mind no problem. My point is Hollywood has a history of blacklisting talent that speak out. Its not right but it happens...

    Cheers, KH
     
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  10. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    That was bad phrasing on my part. It was supposed to be read as "I guarantee you, fans..."

    Thank you for asking! (I really love explaining this.)

    First, it wouldn't work with Leia, just Luke.

    Second, it works exactly like how you'd explain Rey Skywalker, but with one added bonus - Finn's mother was able to sneak a sign into the F.O. in order to signify her son is a Skywalker. His number. 2187. Not only is it Finn's number, it was also the cell number Leia was held in. On a more meta note, the number has significance to George Lucas which is why it was included in Star Wars in the first place. One could also say that this was the Force at work, and leave it at that.

    Third, the proof. If you rewatch TFA, you'll find that a lot of shout-outs to ANH and Luke in particular happen with Finn far more than Rey. Rey may be the "desert child," but that's about it when it comes to the Skywalkers.

    Finn on the other hand has a lot more - he's short for a Stormtrooper (a realization of Leia's snarky remark to Luke), his unmasking to the successor of Leia is about a rescue and is eerily similar to how Luke first approached Leia ("I'm here to rescue you" vs "this is a rescue"). Finn was the one to activate the holo-chess game table, and the one to find Luke's old lightsaber training droid.

    Finn was the first character in the new trilogy to use the Skywalker Lightsaber (which has NEVER spoken to any of its past wielders or done force vision stuff with them), and like them it was taken away from him in a battle he lost. This also completes a symbolic and thematic theme - Anakin lost the lightsaber in the third movie in his trilogy, Luke the second, and now Finn in the first. Also like the rest of the Skywalkers, he suffered a grievous injury due in the ensuing battle where he lost the lightsaber (Luke lost a hand, Anakin had his whole body burned, and Finn needed to be put in a bacta-suit).

    Examples like these - along with the 2187 mention - don't happen in movies unless you're trying to bring attention to it for some reason. You don't have the luxury of time for so many meaningless references. So, the question then becomes, "why are you referencing this?" Is it because you simply have a nostalgia-addiction? Or are you trying to foreshadow something?

    Changing Finn to a Skywalker also introduces a bit of motive ambiguity to Kylo Ren. Did he know Finn's number and was watching him on Jakku because he knew every Stormtrooper on every mission he went on or he somehow knew Finn didn't fire on the troopers? Or was it because Kylo knew who Finn was personally? Was his screaming of "TRAITOR!" at Finn because he was projecting his pain onto Finn, or because he genuinely felt betrayed by yet another member of his family?

    Heck, change Finn's birth name to Anakin (which I firmly believe it would be) and then you have even more narrative and symbolic resonance. Once again Anakin and "Ben" are fighting on a planet with extreme temperature, with a woman who means so much to both of them lies on the ground unconscious. Once again, Anakin will lose the battle against "Ben." And once again, a Palpatine will help Anakin escape the battle alive. But this time, the sides of each character are switched, and the woman decides her OWN fate in this battle, changing the course of how things should go. Narrative symmetry that echoes like poetry, yet still containing the free will that makes this story different.


    Outside of that, you have the fact that two of Luke's canonical love interests have been black - the lead from Star Wars: Heir to the Jedi, and Tula Markona from the Star Wars comics. (Bonus points go to Tula for having a Jedi grandmother.) His other two love interests, Leia and Dr. Aphra, clearly go nowhere - and Dr. Aphra was more like a quick crush than anything else for Luke. (I feel like I'm forgetting a fifth love interest, but I can't for the life of me think of whom that might be.)

    [​IMG]
    The picture of Tula Markona isn't loading, but look it up if you're curious about what she looks like.


    The biggest complaints I hear are the timeline, the fact that Luke "would have known," and the fact that Finn is black, not biracial.

    In terms of the timeline, it works better for Finn than it does for Rey. Finn was 24 during TFA & TLJ. Ben Solo didn't start training with Luke until he was a teenager, and we have no idea what Luke was doing in the meantime except exploring the galaxy and looking for information about the Jedi. So giving Luke a travel partner or a home-base that he eventually must part ways with in order to do his calling wouldn't be THAT surprising. So Luke goes off, his lover finds out she's pregnant, but she doesn't reach out because she doesn't need Luke for support (or maybe she simply can't find/reach him). And then the First Order attack, and Finn is taken. (This works best for Tula, since she's a member of a mercenary class. Hiring and/or taking out a highly skilled mercenary clan that is affiliated with the New Republic would not only eliminate a potential threat, but also serve as a nice slice of revenge for those who were originally a part of the Empire. And any children reaped from the attack would most likely have some combat training or affinity, so you have an even larger boon.)

    Why wouldn't Luke have known about Finn? The same reason Vader didn't know about his children - connection through the Force isn't automatic. It requires at least a base amount of knowledge or affinity by each side. Luke and Vader couldn't Force-Talk until BOTH knew their connection. Luke could reach out to Leia in a time of desperation, but that was because they had an affinity for each other (which then worked to help reveal their connection in ROTJ). Even then, if an enemy wants to hide, it's pretty easy to do so (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Fulcrum, etc.)

    Lastly, Finn's race. Frankly, I have a decent amount of biracial friends and interracial families around me, and the children range the entire spectrum. Finn turning out darker than what people expect simply shows that people need to widen their expectations and assumptions. Also, Star Wars is a sci-fi/space opera with colored laser swords and sound in space. If people want to complain because a Stormtrooper is black, or that Finn is "too dark" to be a biracial baby, then I'd gladly show them the door, because their priorities are clearly mixed up.
     
    #690 Use the Falchion, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  11. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I think there’s a lot to take into consideration here with John Boyega’s statements.

    First and foremost, I think it’s worth noting that I do get what they were trying to do with the marketing for The Force Awakens, misleading audiences to think that Finn was the Jedi protagonist of this trilogy so that Rey could have her big moment in the duel on Starkiller Base. I think that’s fine –– even if, retrospectively, it was kind of a poor choice because of what Finn signifies in terms of representation in Star Wars. But they could’ve done so much more with Finn than they did. The stormtrooper rebellion plot that everyone was hoping for with him seems to have been somewhat set up in The Rise of Skywalker, because why else would they introduce Jannah and explicitly state that she was a First Order abandoner like Finn? I would imagine they (rather stupidly) cut that from the final version of the film, much like a good chunk of the other (necessary) material that Disney cut from the final version of the film.

    Now, I personally don’t find Finn to be anywhere near as interesting of a character as Rey or Kylo –– I was always drawn to those two, largely because they were obviously always intended to be the leads of this trilogy, and I would like to think John knows that. However, the Rey/Kylo storyline was pushed at the expense of other narratives, like Finn’s, and I think there was more potential for his arc than theirs, which were kind of already set in stone, more or less. (Again, if Disney wouldn’t have cut the final version of The Rise of Skywalker so extensively, I think some of this could’ve been avoided because there really isn’t much that I would cut from the Rey/Kylo stuff, but there’s a lot I would add for characters like Finn and Rose.)

    I don’t know that it really made sense for Finn’s arc to follow him becoming a Jedi in the same way that Rey’s arc did, but I very much got the impression that Disney deliberately avoided making him a Jedi in any way for whatever reason. They even avoided an explicit confirmation of Finn’s Force sensitivity even though that was supposedly another scene that was filmed for The Rise of Skywalker.

    I’m not saying that this issue is something that ONLY falls on The Rise of Skywalker, because I think this dates back several years, to be honest. Disney’s “fake wokeness” is slowly catching up with them –– and John speaking out against them proves it. But I do think much of the disappointment with where Finn ends up could’ve been avoided if there was more care put into The Rise of Skywalker. From what I’ve read, based on interviews with cast/crew members and tidbits within the novel and visual dictionary, there were major things that were cut from the film that largely contributed to the backlash surrounding it. And as much as I love The Rise of Skywalker, Disney deserves every bit of crap they got for that film because they made so many cuts to the film solely for the sake of making more money. (If the film was 3 hours, like many of us thought it would be, it would’ve occupied a single theater for a longer period of time, thus slightly reducing the number of showings of the film a day and, consequently, less money being made off the film.) I think the representation issue in this trilogy would probably still exist even if they had released a more comprehensive version of The Rise of Skywalker, but it could’ve been reduced and fixed in many ways if they hadn’t forced JJ to rush to get the film done in time for the December 2019 release date and then cut huge portions of the film that were really necessary.

    The way I see it –– I’m a straight white dude. I’ve never had to worry about missing out on opportunities because of my race, gender or sexuality, nor have I ever had to worry about not feeling “seen” in media because there’s never been a lack of representation in that area. But it’s really disappointing for me to see how many Star Wars fans of color don’t get to feel represented properly by a franchise they love –– after being promised they would be –– because Disney decided to give characters like Finn and Rose the cold shoulder. If Star Wars is for everyone, then why are characters of color being treated like this? It sends the wrong message, and I really hope when Lucasfilm “reevaluates” how to move forward with Star Wars, they take that into account and work diligently to address the issue in future projects.
     
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  12. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I understand what John Boyega was saying, but I think he was expecting something from the movies in terms of character development that was never going to be.

    While I enjoyed the ST as they were acted well, executed well and looked great in terms of cinematography. The movies failed in terms of story and character arcs. Boyega can complain all he wants about Finn and Poe, but Disney dropped the ball on Rey’s character too. She went from ‘mysterious’ character in TFA, to a ‘nobody’ in TLJ, to a Palpatine in TROS. Kylo was Supreme Chancellor at the end of TLJ, yet they bring back Palpatine for TROS? It’s almost like you’re watching 3 different movie narratives instead of 1 Trilogy.

    If Finn only got short-changed in the ST, than I would cede his point. But this was a Trilogy that tried so hard to please the fans in terms of nostalgia or subverting expectations, they forgot that story/characters is what is most important. This is why I enjoy the ST movies individually, but not as a Trilogy. Ironically I enjoy the PT as a Trilogy, but not as individual movies.
     
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  13. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    A difference of perspective, because I felt the opposite. I always thought that while Rey was going to be the lynchpin of the story, her path was too predictable for me to fully immerse myself in. In my head Finn was always going to be her co-star. They were going to lead the franchise together. And frankly, I always thought there was more connecting Kylo to Finn than Kylo to Rey.

    I thought that Kylo would serve as a dark reflection of all three of our heroes - like Rey he was a force-sensitive person who shared a connection with the Skywalker family. Even from the beginning this felt more like a kinship or a mentor-mentee relationship than a romance or whatever TROS wanted to do with it. Like Finn, Kylo felt like he was taken from the place he originally belonged (Kylo from his parents to train with Luke, Finn from his family to become a Stormtrooper), and eventually betrayed that group. Kylo's scream of "TRAITOR," always read like he was projecting his own pain onto Finn, since Finn was the only one who could truly understand that message; besides it wouldn't make sense for him to call Rey that. Both Finn and Rey were "nobody" to counter Kylo's "somebody," but for Finn this was especially true. We all knew Rey would come from some family line - be it Skywalker, Solo, Kenobi, or Palpatine. Finn was far more ambiguous at first, and to me that made him interesting. (I didn't jump on the Finn Skywalker train until late 2016 or early-to-mid 2017.) And like Poe, Kylo had a mother-son bond with Leia and was an ace pilot.

    But then TLJ came in and stripped all of those beautiful reflections away*; and TROS...well...

    That's something I see and completely understand, yet always baffles me. The MCU was able to make a three hour movie and break records in the same year that TROS came out. In my mind Lucasfilm had enough goodwill (probably their remaining goodwill) to make a movie of comparable length without the audience being too wary of it. Oh there would be detractors, but that's inevitable in Star Wars. But they chose to slim it down and worry about money instead of a good product. To be fair, the MCU had a few advantages that Lucasfilm didn't, but you'd think that if any film franchise earned the right to do a three hour movie in order to complete its story, Star Wars would be it.


    It's really painful after something like Black Panther as well. It felt like Lucasfilm saw film-making stereotypes and myths being broken and then tried to play it safe instead of joining the movement. Lucasfilm saw the impact a black hero with a strong storyline could have on the next generation - their target demographic - and decided to do nothing to address it. Two steps forward, two steps back. And now it looks like they're paying for it. I can't say I'm happy, but I can't say the vindication feels bad.

    Daniel Greene's thoughts on the matter - he starts talking about this at 8:05 and stops at about 9:30. I do wonder if Trevor Noah will speak about this as well...I sort of doubt it, but it'd be interesting to see.




    *From Finn and Kylo. The comparisons between Poe and Kylo actually still stand for the most part.
     
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  14. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    Yeah, I guess I should clarify that, even though the finale of The Force Awakens made it pretty clear to me that it would be a very Rey/Kylo-focused story moving forward, Finn’s role in that film seemed too prominent for him to not have just as large of a role in the next two films. I realize that, with the choices Rian Johnson made in The Last Jedi, they were limited in where they could take Finn’s character because it was a VERY Rey/Kylo-heavy story, but they absolutely could’ve and should’ve done more with Finn in The Rise of Skywalker. Personally, I felt like there were so many missed opportunities in that film in particular that there’s no way he didn’t initially have a larger role in the film.

    Your take on Kylo being a dark reflection of all three heroes is REALLY interesting, though. I definitely see a lot of those parallels now. I’ve always been very focused on the Rey/Kylo parallels and dynamic because they’re my two favorite characters, but I do think there’s so much potential in terms of his parallels with Finn and Poe, too, and again, the Sequel Trilogy totally slept on it (especially because there really wasn’t any closure to the Finn/Kylo fight in The Force Awakens, it simply became Rey’s burden to bear instead of Finn’s).

    Yeah, I agree. It always felt weird to me because Star Wars is definitely up there with Marvel, so honestly, it really just felt like another way for Lucasfilm to “play it safe” after all the backlash with The Last Jedi and Solo’s underperformance at the box office. But most fans were pretty vocal about being okay with a 3+ hour film because it was warranted, especially as the finale to the whole saga, and as we saw from Endgame, people will definitely sit still for a 3+ hour-long film. I agree entirely, though, the three-hour runtime for a film like The Rise of Skywalker is more justified than any other film franchise (including Marvel, to be honest).

    Yes, that’s how I feel. It’s really upsetting that Star Wars dropped the ball on representation, too, because in many ways, that was a really progressive franchise in that way for a long time –– think about it, Leia is really one of the first major examples of feminism in film. Her character is often credited for changing the way women are portrayed in film, and SO many women have been outspoken about how important it was to have a character like her to identify with. You’d think, for Lucasfilm being under the same umbrella as Marvel, they would sort of be able to grasp the concept because Marvel did it SO well with Black Panther. As a white man, I felt empowered to see the impact that Black Panther had on Black audiences.

    So, I have to agree with you, it’s really disappointing to see Lucasfilm and Star Wars come under fire for something like this, but it’s deserved. Actions have consequences and I really think they need to reevaluate some things over there. It’s great that Rey represents something progressive in terms of female representation in film, in the same way that Leia did, but that doesn’t mean that they needed to push every other minority that was given the chance to shine in this trilogy to the side.

    I think Daniel Greene brings up a great point in that video you shared. There’s nothing progressive about Disney’s take on Star Wars, which is really unfortunate. Like I said in my last post, I’m a firm believer that Star Wars is absolutely for everyone, and I really wish that the studio that tries to push that narrative so hard in their marketing would actually stand by it in the content of what they’re marketing as well. It’s disappointing that there’s so much that could’ve been with Finn, Rose, Poe, etc. and it was all sidelined for the sake of telling a great story with Rey and Kylo. As much as I loved the Rey/Kylo narrative, it doesn’t mean the other subplots for the other characters needed to be lacking in any way, and it really does feel like those characters of color got the short end of the stick, unfortunately.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I'm sorry, but that's a bad take.

    Trust me, you don't have to be concerned with Jon's career. He's gonna be just fine.

    Second, I'm sure there are studios that probably would no longer consider working with Jon because of these remarks. Good. He's done himself a favor by weeding out having to work with them.

    "Just shut up and bear it" is never a good way to handle important stuff like this, though. Would you say the same thing to victims who spoke out during the Me Too movement?
     
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  16. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Ay ya ya...Not concerned at all. I simply stated he might have burnt the bridge w/ Disney.
    A lot of good actors/actresses have been blacklisted over the years due to 1 incident. People have fragile
    egos nor like being called out.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2020 ---
    How can you compare JBs beef w/ Disney to victims of sexual assault?
    Come on man, you might not like how I presented my argument but at least be fair.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Look, it's not at all my place to tally victims' grievances against each other. That's gross, and not at all what I intended.

    But I do think it's pretty short-sighted to refer to it as "JBs beef". It's racism. It's prejudice. It's stuff that minorities have had to deal with for centuries, and longer.

    If you read Boyega's words, he's not mad specifically that Boyega the actor didn't get a part he wanted. He's mad at the pattern of sidelining that we can see in this trilogy alone (let alone the rest of Hollywood).
     
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  18. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    And this is exactly where we are leaving conversation.

    There is a lot to be said about this topic, but the Cantina's purpose is to discuss the Star Wars universe. If you folks want to continue this conversation, let's take it to PM. We don't this to turn into a huge debate.
     
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  19. T WARD

    T WARD Rebel Commander

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    I think having Finn discover Palpatine was Reys father while trying to hack into first order ship in TLJ would have given his character a purpose. And this could have carried over into ROS where he try’s to get the news to her. But the purpose of TLJ seemed to be let go of the past so not likely. the best thing would be to sacrifice himself facing Ben Solo in force awakens to save Rey.
     
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  20. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Am not a fan of major characters dying in the first act. Imagine if both Tarkin and Maul were involved throughout their respective trilogies.
    I didnt like the FInn character in TLJ..from naked Finn, the escape pod to the casino scene....it just didnt help push the story.

    Finn hacking Snoke's ship's database and discovering Palpatine was behind it all (ie recordings of Snoke and Palpatine discussing Ben) would have been cool.
    Definitely a shocking moment.
     
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