Main Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Episode IX Thread

He had a Backstory in the OT. He was once a Jedi (Ben Kenobi's apprentice who got seduced by the dark side), he was the best pilot in the galaxy and he is the father of Luke Skywalker. That's a lot of backstory here.

Backstory or even better "wounds" are needed for a change in a character's arc. Characters like Snoke or Palpatine also have no needs or desires. This is also a requirement for redemption.

You didn't read my post correctly. You need backstory with wounds for a redemption. Wounds are a character's weakness which he/she has to overcame to grow and change.

Neither Snoke or Palpatine had wounds or weaknesses.

 

Great post, truly.

 

Although I love the Kylo Ren character and find it a bit difficult to relate to those who don't, I find it really interesting to see the arguments for and against redemption and positive/negative feelings for him in general.

As with the whole Reylo deal, people often see what they want to see. It seems like a lot of people can't move past his murdering Han Solo, and, though that was terrible, my perspective has always been that that was the very thing that started his turn back to the light. His face after Han falls says it all, at least to me. Where some just see a terrible murderer, I see someone who is going to have to live with the most horrible of mistakes for the rest of his life, which is basically what Kylocity said previously. That action, rather than making him more powerful in the dark side of the force, made him more conflicted than ever.

 

Agree with most of this.

I don't see any other possibility aside from Kylo being redeemed. Its been the obvious setup from the very beginning.

Redemption can come through sacrifice, much like his grandfather. And much like his grandfather, I do not see any other way for this threshold to be met unless it is with the ultimate sacrifice.

 

It doesn't matter if he wants to do good. The galaxy don't care. Karma is a mother, and he has to pay. You cannot expect the galaxy to get down with that. That's how it works. Expecting anything else is being soft. Is he a man or a boy playing grown up games? Where are the men in this movie?

 

So, being soft equals not being a man? That BS.

Why should Kylo or Ben care about what the galaxy thinks? He has to overcome himself to find peace. That's part of his character arc and the hero's journey.

He may have to pay with his death. But that's not karma. His sacrifice would be his own choice and not the choice of something "higher" or "spiritual".

 

As if certain men haven't royally effed the galaxy before. *cough Vader, Emperor cough*

Also, are you being serious with that comment?

 

Expecting redemption is soft. Either he can handle the eye of the needle or he can't. At this point, I don't have much respect or interest, because people want him to be redeemed. If he is a man then he sticks his chest out and handle it. Just like those who have far less than him, but make do with what they have.

 

I disagree. Expecting or more fitting: accepting redemption isn't soft, but difficult. Forgiving his deeds will be the biggest task the ST heroes could ever face (and guess what, SW is all about forgiveness).
But a possible redemption arc is even harder for Ben himself than for the other characters. He is the one who has to live with his deeds. So, it would be too soft to kill him off after he has been redeemed.

 

anyone can be a warrior: fly a ship, shoot a blaster, even wield a lightsaber.
just as with Luke in the OT, it's the balance of compassion that makes real heroes. ; D

actual courage requires actual risk and actual fear.

 

So you expect others to take the high road for a terrorists? Remind me when we do that for actual terrorists. Otherwise this has no place in a world where you pay for your actions. Good or Bad. The galaxy would be in a worse situation if they kept him alive. They prove nothing by doing so, except to show how stupid they are. Cancer is cancer. You cannot get along with it. A part of growing up is recognizing you can't get along and you shouldn't get along with everyone.

 

So do you agree Obi-Wan and Yoda for forgiving/redeeming Vader? Who destroyed their way of life? Yoda and Obi-Wan gave him the gift of him being young. Instead of always 'living' with the guilt of his past.

 

You know Star Wars isn't real life, right?

If movies were like the real world, why should you watch them if you can live them all your life? Movies are illusions which help you escape the reality of the real world. You see in the movies what does not exist in the real world. That's the point.

 

Wait a minute. So which is it? What platform are you discussing? You can't use a real life equation and then when it is challenged hop to SW being fantasy.

Obviously, Ben Solo would not be afforded the same treatment in the real world that he might get in SW. That is pretty much a no-brainer. But if you are going to say he isnt worthy of redemption in the real world (true imo) you sure can't then turn around and state movies are illusions which help us escape our realities. Then you also need to consider (or possibly just be a little more clear) as to whether you are discussing Ben Solo's redemption internally or externally - personally and spiritually/in the eyes of his peers/or by the general public. It is silly to think that Ben Solo will ever be redeemed by the masses. SW doesn't even attempt such a leap with Darth Vader, as evidenced by Leia having the political issues after her lineage is made public in Bloodlines. So I dont think there is any chance this trilogy ends with Ben Solo walking off into the sunset feeling really good about how the universe views him. He is either the big baddie or sacrifices himself and is redeemed in the eyes of his peers, such as Rey - much like Luke with his father.

 

Do you really expect Kylo to be redeemed and not pay the price for his previous actions? I've argued from the beginning that the only way Ben Solo returns is if he sacrifices himself. There's no way that he's allowed to turn to the light and fly off in the Falcon with Rey. It also doesn't make for a good film if Ben Solo is redeemed and then hauled off to Space Prison. If Ben Solo is redeemed in this film, he will die. It's also the only way they can truly end the "Skywalker Saga".

 

Ending it just means ending the story. Though it may happen, it doesn't necessarily mean ending the bloodline.

 

I'm not so sure. Luke desperately wanted to save his father, and some of us also wished that, at least I did at the time. However, Anakin was fataly wounded after killing(?) Palpatine, so he passed away leaving a weeping Luke. I understand it may be difficulty to accept that Ben's redemption may include his survival. However, for a change I would like that. In any case, I'm open to all outcomes, but my favorites are Ben's alive redemption with or without force powers diminishing leaving Ben a non-sensitive or substantially reduced force sensitive man.

That said, I imagine that killing him off may work better for a sense of closure, so that it may be the end of the Skywalkers, at least in terms of blood. In any case, my opinion is that all possibilities are still on the table.

 

Maybe he's not worthy of redemption in the real world (I doubt that btw), but in the SW universe he sure is worthy, because there are people which did worse and still got redeemed.

Personally I more care about the characters view of redemption than of the the view of the audience. IMO the characters in the universe have to forgive him and not the audience.

Maybe Ben Solo doesn't care about what the universe thinks of him, as long as the people who he cares about know that he did the right thing.