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Main Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Episode IX Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by LadyMusashi, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I can accept *whatever they give me*, but I also accept what I've already been given and that's what I have to go by.

    Does that make sense?
     
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  2. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Nobody is saying here that Kylo Ren is a good person and that his actions towards Rey are devoid of the selfish and, yes, the manipulative, or that he deserves forgiveness just because Adam Driver is looking at Rey with puppy eyes... it is not as if some females or Reylos do not see the difference between romantic interest and manipulation... They do. I think what sometimes people forget, when they say that Kylo Ren is not "good" in an "obvious way", is that the story has not finished yet... that there is another chapter and that there is still a journey for Kylo, for Rey and the other characters to complete. They also forget, rather conveniently I may add, that Kylo Ren is not the whole story. Ben Solo is still part of him as it has been shown repeatedly in these films. I don't know if Kylo Ren will be redeemed in TROS. But if he is, I wouldn't find unusual that his acts of contrition don't start in the first or second chapters, which is when the villain should be shown at its worst...

    But yeah, if the story is heading for Kylo being conflicted yet unredeemed, fair enough... In the context of the saga you would have to present it to me in a way in which this would be of some benefit to the galaxy... and that, if you think about it, it's harder than it seems.

    Something that is also indisputable is that Kylo has feelings for Rey, both dark side (possessiveness) and light side (compassion). That's half Reylo :) The most powerful romantic stories usually follow a trajectory from enmity to love and sometimes, yes, these romantic stories end up being tragically one sided... Perhaps never having Rey's love will be Ben Solo's punishment and the price he will have to pay for all his wrongdoings. Just an idea.
     
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  3. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Even though I know this advice is coming from a good place, let me tell you my take on all this “fan expectations” subject. It goes without saying that there will be disappointed fans and that some people will take it to heart so much more than I personally think they should... It is true that some people do live more vicariously through these fictional characters than others. But it is also true that this is absolutely these people's choice. I personally would not dare tell anyone not to get too attached to their expectations or fan theories... primarily because I have no idea what those expectations or fan theories truly mean to them, or how these people will be affected by disappointment, for the simple reason that I’m not inside these people’s minds.... A “silly” attachment to a fan theory may help someone get over a divorce, the loss of a child, may connect you with others, make friends, appreciate art, become creative... Getting attached to your fan theory can even make you become a better person... so please, let’s stop judgement and start realising that everybody engages with art in different ways.

    I can’t help thinking (and I’m not necessarily referring to your post here) that sometimes people come up with that lark of “don’t get too attached to your fan expectation” as a way of silencing others and dismiss their good efforts to explain why they think their theories are valid and why they fit in the narrative... In a podcast I heard recently an interviewer, well intentioned no doubt, say something on the lines of “I’m concerned that a lot of Reylos, after spending all that time making video essays and doing fan art, may be disappointed with the outcome of TROS, if it doesn’t go their way” and I could not help but thinking: Mister, you don’t need to be concerned... I would suspect these people and their viewers obviously enjoy their Reylo art and creative impetus enough to handle the disappointment of not having their expectations met in TROS... and if they don’t, well, I don’t think it is something that I or anyone should concern themselves with, unless, of course, they are close to them in real life.

    Anyway, back to Kylo Ren :)
     
    #363 Kylocity, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  4. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    There are two different issues here. One is getting attached to a fan theory and the other is how they respond to it if it does not happen.

    It is perfectly fine to get very attached to a certain idea or theory. It can be fun to speculate on and fun to see if it actually comes true.

    However, not being able to accept the fact that the theory did not come true and allowing it to ruin the movie/movie going experience is different. It is not healthy to let that happen.
     
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  5. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel General

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    I will leave it at this: I have stated over and over that Kylo has both light and dark, there are hints at his internal conflict, and that is why he is such a good character. My concern is that his story arc is too heavy and important to fit into one half of a third act (I agree it will likely culminate in the third act) since it has to split time with Rey and Co. He has not progressed yet, and will likely not progess for the first hour and a half of the next movie.

    This is my only concern and I am skeptical, yet excited for it.

    My opinion is not far from yours or Lylo's. I just feel it could have been handled much better in TLJ and JJ has his work cut out for him.

    It may end up "epic" and it may end up "empty." It is all in the execution.
     
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  6. Rodney-2187

    Rodney-2187 Rebel Official

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    “Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” - Yoda
     
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  7. Lylo Ren

    Lylo Ren Rebel General

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    I'm sorry if I came off barky before, truly, but there are quite a few people out there that don't like the character because he killed Han/they don't think he's as cool as Vader/they don't like Adam Driver's face (truly a mystery to me)/etc. and I'm just tired of those people because I feel like the character is great and extremely nuanced.

    I was so happy when they announced JJ was taking the reigns for IX because I love TFA so much. TLJ could have been better and, even though I do enjoy the movie as a whole, there are parts that I don't and I feel like Rian went off the rails in those parts.

    I do want to add we don't really know how much time the characters will spend apart at this point; it's all pure speculation until TROS comes out.
     
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  8. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Mmm I would not go as far as saying “it is not healthy”. The most I’d say is that “it is a shame”. Rejecting a film is not how we measure someone’s mental health...
     
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  9. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Execution is very important, I agree, but let’s not forget it’s not a hard science, and that it can be flawed and still work in a weird way ... For example, JJ’s and RJ’s films are very different in tone and execution and yet both together have left the story at a very interesting crossroads ... A place of uncertainty, particularly with regards to the character of Kylo.

    I think where we defer is in how we think a redemption arc should be built. For me Kylo’s will he/will he not dynamic is very important, as it gives a sense of jeopardy, of possible failure... If the writers had been less subtle in flagging Kylo’s redemption, his turn to the light( if it were to happen) would feel much less satisfactory... You see, the more we see him change, the better the pay off.

    And here we may stumble into another difference perhaps in our appreciation of how stories should be told in films: I have lately noticed that people are getting more and more accustomed to the slow character development shown in series with many seasons like GOT and it appears to me that some have a problem engaging with a character they have seen on screen for perhaps less than an hour... or accepting fast cinematic cues and turning points as part of a character’s development. It seems as if all of a sudden everything needs to be slow burn, explained, analysed, referenced etc... But I don’t know. I may be wrong about this.
     
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  10. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel General

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    I would agree with this.
     
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