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Main Palpatine/Ian Mcdiarmid Episode IX Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Bluemilk, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Clone Commander

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    If he didn't return to his own body, there would've been no reason to have Ian show up on set.

    The fact that Ian is part of the cast AND was on set in England means that Palpatine is in the film as a physical presence.
     
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  2. The Next Skywalker

    The Next Skywalker Rebel General

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    Not necessarily. Adam Driver was on set with Daisy Ridley for her "force skype"-sequences in Ireland without him being filmed.
    Ian McDiarmid could have been on set to interact with the other actors, to use his voice, to coach others etc ...
    But of course you can be right.
     
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  3. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Rebel Official

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    While he could possibly in present day physical form in the movie, he would also need to be on set to film possibilities such as a holovid recording, flashback, force vision, etc. To me, just being on set to film, doesn't necessarily mean physical presence in the current time.
     
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  4. C2P2

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    I am a big fan of Palpatine. To hear his laugh at the end of the trailer was a HUGE moment. Of course I would be happy with Palptatine in any form, however I wouldnt be satisfied with him just being a hologram, flashback or as a sentinel droid. If Palpatine is the BIG BAD in TROS he needs to be in full physical form. I read a theory that he could be incapacitated in the ruins of the Death Star which we see in the teaser and I love that. To see him in action again fighting with his saber, force lightening and sprialling through the air would just be amazing to see.

    Before TFA was released I was a huge believer in Snoke turning out to be Darth Plagueis. I had my heart set on that so much, now theres Palpatine I couldnt give a toss - its all about Palpatine. Im so excited to see where they take this!
     
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  5. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Thus the theory that he was Snoke all along. I mean Snoke did look like a decomposing corpse in a gold robe!
     
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  6. Luke's beard

    Luke's beard Rebel Official

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    Would love a clone of Palpatine. Though, whatever they come up with is fine by me ;);) ..
     
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  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Clone Commander

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    Snoke existed before the Empire did, as by his own admission he 'witnessed the fall of the Republic and the Rise and Fall of the Empire', so, in the strictly most literal sense, there is no way that "Palpatine could have been Snoke all along".

    Whether or not Palpatine's consciousness "possessed" Snoke is a different question.
     
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  8. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Well Palpatine did witness the fall of the Republic and the fall of the Empire...from a certain point of view.
     
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  9. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Because having a character come back from a supposedly final death runs the risk of cheapening the story, especially if it is connected to a prophecy and a chosen one. If they are going to have Palpatine come back, I sure hope they have a good explanation for how it happened when it seemingly contradicts what we already knew.
     
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  10. DarExc

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    JJ made a comment about "Ian being a breathtakingly good actor to watch". Given his laugh, him being on stage, this being a film for everyone and the fact the big surprise was him, I highly suspect he'll be back in physical form. Maybe they'll say the blue energy we saw when he fell was him saving himself or something...if anything...who knows. It won't be overly complicated though, the films don't get into anything too elaborate. I imagine there will be a lot of material released to explain those details in comics, books etc and I also think we'll get some Snoke/Palpatine link in the comic this summer. The big reveal will be that he's been pulling the strings in the background all along in surprising ways.

    All that said, the gimmick worked on me. We watched this at work, I was talking to a colleague while it was playing, no one cared too much and when we heard that laugh we all got excited. He's back!
     
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  11. mind1

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    Ep1 starts with Palpatine's schemes to start a war and take power for the Sith. Ep 9 will involve something of his plan, but I don't think he needs to be in the present as a clone or resurrected entity. It would take too long in the movie to explain how he returned to life and back to power and would hijack the story of the new characters. A flashback scene or some artifacts of his plans (maybe what's in Rey's white bag at the end of the trailer) could however push forward the story to explain something about the nature of Kylo's arc, Rey's origin, Snoke or something that gives context of this trilogy to the rest of the saga. Palpatine would just be a plot point and not really a character in the story.

    Second theory: ROTJ had Luke in the throne room, han and leia on endor moon and lando in a space battle all happening simultaneously. Maybe Ep 9 could have Rey Poe & Finn in a small scale battle, Lando again in the space battle and maybe Palpatine and Luke in some sort of force ghost battle in the spiritual realm.

    Third theory: Palpatine had been posing as a force ghost of Anakin to trick Kylo into the dark side, and now he'll reveal his true self to Kylo which will turn Kylo against the dark side. We'd see imposter Anakin's force ghost transforming before our eyes into Palpatine's force ghost and he'd laugh at Kylo's reaction of being manipulated. Kylo will then somehow sacrifice himself for the greater good.
     
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  12. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel General

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    I think they spilled the beans in the aftermath series. There they describe how Palpatine had a plan to fall back on if something went wrong. Palpatine was always about personal power, not some notion of a "greater good" to be served by allowing his vision of an Empire to be rebuilt in the unknown regions.

    The plan was about how Palpatine himself, incarnate, could still control the galaxy in the event of a seeming defeat or even death.

    I think Kylo will get to meet Palpatine and he will tell the story of how he survived by way of exposition, probably no longer than the ROTS scene where he tells Anakin the Story of Darth Plagueis the Wise. And I think he will also destroy Kylo's sense of grandfather hero worship in that same exposition and set Kylo on a new path.

    Remember this quote from ROTS: "Darth Palgueis was so powerful that he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life."

    There's your in universe explanation for how he returns right there. When you watch that scene again with the knowledge that Palpatine is coming back, it is staring you in the face that he transcended Plagueis's limitations.
     
    #72 Lazlo, Apr 15, 2019
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  13. AlienWhicker

    AlienWhicker Rebelscum

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    If Palps is also hugely aged and seemingly incapacitated it'll feel like a very odd repeat - we'll have to name this trilogy 'Revenge of the Dark Side Memorial Home'. Unless this changes the story in a huge way, another decrepit (and certainly ableist, at this rate) depiction of evil will be a very weak shift. I think to work, this resurrection would have to develop Palpatine's character or hugely broaden the story, on par with the development of Maul, though this would certainly mean that the Palpatine character arc would eclipse even the Skywalker saga itself.
    The main difficulty is how would they make Palpatine more powerful or more evil than Snoke? Considering all of the main characters, even Phasma managed to escape an exploding Starkiller Base, even his survival of Death Star II is not miraculous. A further problem would be how to reveal him with relevance to the new audience - I don't think that he has actually been mentioned at all.
    I think what I am trying to say is that there would have to be a dramatic reason to use this character, beside exposition reveals (Rey's heritage, Skywalker origins, what was Snoke etc.) and that is likely to be Palpatine's incredible duplicity, if he is to drive the plot at all other than as a macguffin. We might, for example, find a Darth Sideous hellbent on revenge against the Skywalker bloodline, with the sheer incredulity of redemption being a dramatic tension. Alternatively, we might find Kylo Ren trying to hunt and assassinate him, possibly having him killed by Kylo to build him up as 'More Powerful than even Sideous' before a final battle with Rey.
    Either way, Rey will not be able to murder Kylo nor palpatine (this is Disney, and heroes don't do that). Ren (having murdered Han, destroyed planets etc.) is also irredeemable (only by giving his life could he be redeemed) so I am expecting the most likely dramatic reason for bringing him back is to provide Kylo with an opportunity to redeem himself in death, and 'finish his grandfathers work'. It'll be some varient on the Return of The Jedi Palpatine death scene most likely (possibly with Palps having tricked or betrayed Kylo, not making the same mistake twice). Let's hope that it isn't on Death Star 4.
     
  14. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Clone Commander

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    Palpatine never knew Plagueis' secret, despite the fact that he led Anakin to believe otherwise.
     
  15. Legend66

    Legend66 Rebelscum

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    Episode 6:

    Palps dies but he is still around and haunting the death star 2 wreckage. Will be similar situation as Obi and Yoda but is limited to only interacting with people around the DS2 wreckage.

    Post episode 6:

    Empire collapses and follows Palps orders and head to the unknown region.

    Pals and Snoke knew each other. Snoke discovers that Palps is haunting the DS2 and they both hatch a plan to get back power.

    As part of Kylos training Snoke will send him to Endor and that is when he finds Vader's helmet. He doesn't sense palpatine but he does start his obsession with Vader and even moves into Vader's old castle. Palpatine meanwhile is still trying to find a way to become alive again with the help of the knights of ren ( doesn't include Kylo as he scenes conflict similar to Vader and cant risk it turning sour) A lot of this could be told from a flash back or revealed once palpatine is revealed and he could reveal a bit.

    In the 30 years Luke heard of some rumours of Palpantine but wouldn't believe it after witnessing his death aboard the DS2.

    Episode 9:

    Early on i think things go sour with Kylo and the FO and they turn on him with the help of the knights of Ren , Hux and a hidden party ( palpatine). Kylo goes on the run and is haunted by Luke through out the first part of the movie and trying to convince there is good in him.

    By the end there will be a typical rag tag fleet v the FO in space as a distraction while Kylo seeks out Rey for help. Rey, Kylo and gang head to Endor and confront the knights of Ren who are close to bringing palpatine alive.

    Could go either way.

    A: Palpatine is alive and an epic fight happens
    B: Kylo & Rey v Knights of Ren while Palps taunts. Luke and Anakin appear as Force Ghosts and use a new power to destroy ghost palpatine while Kylo and Rey beat the knights.

    I would personally rather option B as there is no way Rey and Kylo could beat Palpatine.
     
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  16. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Who knows whatPalpatine learned in those years after Anakin became Vader.
     
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  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Clone Commander

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    If he actually found out Plageuis' secret, he wouldn't have been looking for a place like the World Between Worlds.
     
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  18. tm9311

    tm9311 Clone Trooper

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    They surely cannot troll the fans by having his laugh and Ian's return be the focus of a teaser trailer and then have his part in TROS cut down to a short appearance as a hologram? That would really put some fans over the edge.

    As for me he is the main protagonist and master manipulator so to have him be behind the events in the ST despite not even being named would be a great plot twist. Also judging off the title and the fact that this is the culmination of the Skywalker story it would make sense for him to be involved as him and the skywalker line have been linked since the OT.
     
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  19. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I am really not ready to accept that Palpatine, real Palpatine will be back in flash. That would undermine Vader's sacrifice and redemption as well as Luke's rejection of dark side.

    While dark side leads to unnatural abilities, I am more inclined to believe into some kind of haunting in line with Momin's helmet - Sidious' spirit haunting the remains of Death Star - than Sidious reforging his flesh which was evaporated. This would also explain why he only reappears now - because as dark side spirit he isn't free, but linked to something else. Becoming virtually immortal by becoming Force Ghosts is a reward for those who serve light side. Sith may cheat death in a way, but at the same time they should not get to have new lease on life.

    That's just mine two cents, at least at the moment. A lot will depend on the execution, of course.

    Also, Ian actually warned that we shouldn't take a tease too seriously in post-panel interview, so...
     
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  20. Get In Gear

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    Not entirely sure how to feel about this development.
    For me, Star Wars has always been about very real things that you can relate to in everyday life. Sure, it's set in a galaxy where there is space travel, and weird creatures, and a mystical power connecting everyone and everything - but that was kind of just part of the frame the picture was hung in, rather than part of the picture itself.

    For all the amazing things that the Force can do, the climax boiled down to a moment where Luke refused to play by the Emperor's script and inspired that last trace of humanity in his father.
    That was ultimately how he won - he didn't learn some fantastic new power which enabled him to wallop Palpatine into oblivion, he just did the right thing, and made the right choice as a person.
    And that's always been the endearing part from me. We see these characters do all these superhuman things, but at the heart of the story is what was going on with Luke as a human, and how rejecting the conflict he was in the midst of is what made the difference in the end. It's just simple things that we can all relate to.

    And Anakin himself - he was offered "unlimited power" and he gave in to that temptation. But the whole point of that (for me) was that the offer was a just ruse. The power he sought never really existed, and he paid the price - he ended up a broken man kept alive by machines. Kept alive by his own hatred. Half the man he was before he made his pact with the devil.

    As I said, it's a saga in which fantastic things happen, but choices still have to have a consequence for there to be any drama. Anakin almost died. And no amount of magic powers could not keep him alive, he ended up on an operating table, suffering for his own bad judgement.
    The saga has always been grounded in a certain reality and internal logic. I feel the sequels are pushing a little too hard on those boundaries - which some may say is a good thing - but, I'm not convinced.

    So - personally - I feel it's a bit of a cop out to have Palpatine back.
    Don't get me wrong, I love Palpatine, and I love McDiarmid's performance as Palpatine. Hell, he was probably the best thing about the prequels.
    But I love him in the context of the story he was in and the role he played in it.
    In the same way I enjoyed the meal I just had - both as I ate it and the satisfied feeling I had as it sat there in my belly after I'd finished.
    But that doesn't mean I'd also enjoy vomiting it back up in a couple of hours, in some vain attempt to savour it one last time.

    I think I could live with Palpatine's spirit living on. His essence somehow haunting the remains of the second Death Star on the surface of Endor, spreading out and infecting and influencing others. Like the cave on Dagobah, only more potent and focused by Palpatine's will.
    Maybe his essence is even able to influence one being in particular, enabling him to inhabit a new, somewhat limited, lifeform. I could buy that. He endures, but he's incredibly compromised.
    And of course, as some have already speculated, Palpatine may merely be back in the form of flashbacks or recordings of some kind...

    But if he is literally still alive, or has gone full-on Jedi style Force ghost, or is reincarnated as a Dark Empire-esque Emperor clone - personally, I think I'll feel a little bit cheated...
     
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