Main Palpatine/Ian Mcdiarmid Episode IX Thread

I think we will get more than just a flash back with Palpatine or a hologram. The Vader comics from last year (I forget which one now) featured a former Sith Lord possessing a helmet (sith relic) so I think they are going to use that to bring Palps back. I'd bet money he possessed some relic on the Death Star II which was found by relic hunters. No, I don't know that, but it makes total sense.

 

Just a thought, but Rogue One went above and beyond to show that the Empire desperately needed Kyber Crystals for the Death Star. I would assume that applied for the DSII as well. There had to be a large amount, or a large one, for the focusing laser. It is quite possible their resonance in the Force allowed him to survive spiritually. I do like the Momin angle, but this would another way for him to endure.

 

I find it very believable that Sheev, given all the canonical material that has been leading up to this, mastered the transference of his consciousness into a physical object. I find it equally as likely that the physical object would be a vessel to possess a physical body.

There are two equally likely possibilities in my mind.

First, Darth Sidious' consciousness is attached to the Death Star II. The entire space station became essentially one big sarcophagus housing his spirit.

The second, is that he deliberately attached himself to an object such as the statue of Sistros, his lightsaber, Snoke's ring, etc. - may very well even be an object we are unaware of at this point.

Both would result in Darth Sidious' eventual return, though in another corporeal body. You could have a lot of fun with the possibilities, but the execution will be what matters most. You have to get the audience to buy-in on both Rey and Kylo's journey to this point in the story. Given the conflict between the two, the story line will have to lead them to the Death Starcophagus II for different reasons AND then choose to end Darth Sidious' reign for the same reasons in order for the redemption of Kylo to be possible.

Also could give really good reasons to bring Luke and/or Anakin into the final stand as force support as they "exorcise" Sidious out of Kylo and into a place where Sidious can be removed for good.

 

Something like this, maybe:



From the Dark Empire comics in the 90's.

Ps. I dont see how as a clone, but in other person's body.

 

This is not just a belief. In George Lucas's original script for Revenge of the Sith he had a scene where Palpatine reveals that he is basically Anakin's father. on top of that is's been alluded to in comics before. It's all but confirmed at this point.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2019 ---

I was thinking it would cool if Palatines force essence latched itself onto Vader's helmet just before he died. Kylo Ren would be essentially manipulated like his grandfather by the spirit of palpatine, who was pretending to be anakin to gain the trust of Ben. Maybe Ben is taking the mask to the death star to resurrect his grandfather using some kind of dark side force joo joo the palpatine/vader has been teaching him, but ends up bringing back palpatine instead. Perhaps Rey and company are going there to stop him and are too late. My guess is that this would be Act II if its true.

 

If there is a common thread that weaves through all nine films, it is Palpatine and his obsession with power and cheating death. That and what are the true origins of the Skywalkers and how Rey connected to it all. She may not be connected via "I'm your father" box, but via cloning or some other line of the Skywalkers we don't know about.

 

I agree with you. Palpatine can unite both sides. His desire for power is terrifying.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 10, 2019 ---

Thoughtful perspective. Thanks for sharing Now my mind is churning...hmmmm

 

I keep coming back to the line from REVENGE OF THE SITH: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved. But if we work together I know we can discover the secret".

And something is nagging at me about a possibly related issue: Anakin's immaculate conception through the Force. More and more there are indications that Palpatine may very likely have influenced the midichlorians to conceive Anakin in Shmi Skywalker's womb. At the end of TPM Palpatine said to Anakin Skywalker "We will watch your career with great interest". No doubt he sensed the Force in Anakin at that time. Is it possible that he recognized his handiwork at that time? Palpatine was already something of an older man, probably in his 50's, with Anakin about 10 at the time. Was Palpatine looking to find talented Force sensitives that he could live through and achieve immortality? Was Anakin set to be the host for Palpatine at some point in time? No doubt those plans were dashed when Obi-Wan defeated Anakin on Mustafar, leading to his immolation and grave wounding. It seemed clear that Palpatine intended for Luke to defeat Vader to take his place as the next apprentice. Did Luke present a more viable option for Palpatine to live on?

Then there was Snoke. I seem to recall some backstory that he may have been an orphan from Jakku. The orphan bit seems notable as it was a similar backstory to Anakin Skywalker. And Snoke was powerful in the Dark Side. There was also the matter of Palpatine's observatory on Jakku. Is it possible that Snoke may have been another possible host for Palpatine? And what about Snoke's wounds? Is it possible that Palpatine attempted to transfer his spirit to Snoke only to have the process leave Snoke profoundly wounded?

And what about Rey? She had a similar story, and is also powerful in the Force. And she was on Jakku as well. Was she exposed to Palpatine's experimentations as well?

There's a lot to consider here, but I think about this as purely conjecture. I'm still excited to see how things unfold, regardless of my own theories. And FWIW, I did like the theory on The Resistance Report about Palpatine's Force essence having been transferred to Vader's helmet as Palpatine was electrocuting Vader prior to being thrown down the shaft of the throne room tower.

 

I love a lot of these ideas and theories. I think TLJ wasted time that was needed to set these ideas up. Not sure these deep themes can be driven home in a single movie. Certainly more interesting than sea cow milk or space ships running out of gas.

 

I still hope the return of Palpatine is something simple explained that doesn’t take a lot of overthinking to come to the conclusion.

I think SW gets in trouble when it tries too hard as keeping simple is sometimes the best. The Anakin ‘Immaculate Conception’ whole plot point is SW loses me, as I gravitate to Luke (who’s simply the offspring of the villain), or Rey who really is a nobody (for now).

If they bring back Palpatine in a way that jives with some of these internet theories or he created Rey, it might come off as a bit hokey.

I hate to say it but I hope ‘Your Palpatine theories suck’ and they keep it simple.

 

No official backstory but speculation. The only things we know about Snoke are:
- he's very old
- he's FS
- he has seen the rise and fall of the Empire
- he had more than one student
- Han and Leia know Snoke

Me too. Simple is most often the best way to do it. IMO the easiest way to explain Palpatine's return is: his evil spirit is captured in the remains of the second DS.

 

Agreed. It's been established that Palpatine had put contingency plans in place, and a quick reference to this will probably be enough of a set-up for his actual return (in spirit form somehow) or for his long-plan machinations to somehow finally flourish in RoS

 

I hope Palpatine does not come back in physicial form, as I would have no problem if the ST is essentially about everyone scurrying to fulfill his plans he made before he died in ROTJ (and it all culminates on Death Star 2 in TROS). Plus it would actually make the whole Snoke arc much more believable as he was just a pawn of Palpatine, and was just as disposable as Darth Maul, Dooku, and Grevious. My football coach used to run the a defense called the 4-4-3 KISS in High School, and it was a basic defense that kept it simple stupid. Hopefully JJ doesn't overthink it.

 

This was just speculation that Gallius Rax from the Aftermath series might be Snoke. That never panned out and Rax ended up not being Snoke.

 

Yep good times for the Emperor.

 

I think we will see the Essence of Palps, that is trying to get a younger Body. But he is limited on the Power of the Person he is Posessing.
And that Person must be strong in the dark Side.
So he dobt want just Acolythe x , he want a mighty Body.
To connect the Trilogies: It was always the Plan.
The Trick to cheat Death is to Change Body.
Palpatine always wants Anakin as a Vessel. Until the Day Anakin was crippled.
He needs a new Vessel... Luke, but Luke never turned to the Dark Side.

He is killed by Vader an Bodyless. He takes the first one he finds. Maybe Snoke and Spend Years to leave the Planet and reach the First Order. His new Vessel was Kylo, but Kylo was never 100% Dark, so he tries to pull him all the Years.
That would connect all 3 Trilogies and contradicts nothing.

Maybe they go further and we never met Palpatine. Maybe Darth Plagueis took the Body of Sheev.
Or Maybe the Master of Darth Plagueis took his Body, and then the Body of Palps and so on.

So it could be the same Sith Lord over thousands of Years.
XD Maybe Darth Bane

 

Agree with the previous post:

Rumor and piecemeal information seems to point to Darth Sidious appearing in The Rise Of Skywalker in the form of Matt Smith’s character, who then attempts to take over the body of Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. Here’s what I believe has been happening with Palpatine up to this point:

Given the rumors regarding Matt Smith’s role, it seems plausible that in order to live on after his corporeal life, Darth Sidious has had to take over, and/or possess another mortal who is strong enough in the dark side. If that is the case, it raises the question of who else he has “possessed” since his death. Snoke seems like a likely individual - his language is very reminiscent of Palpatine, and his bodily decay would seem consistent with what we’ve heard about how possessing someone takes a toll on their body.

But Palpatine “died” on the second Death Star...did he begin to possess Snoke soon after that? I suspect that he immediately began to possess Yupe Tashu. As depicted in the “Aftermath” trilogy, Yupe Tashu helped set in motion operation inferno AND began cultivating the Acolytes of the Beyond, a likely predecessor of the Knights of Ren. Yupe Tashu met the death of his body at the end of the Aftermath trilogy, at which point Palpatine likely took over the body of Snoke, or someone else in the interim. If this is the case, Palpatine likely has been working since his death, through the body of others, to rebuild his Empire as the First Order, cultivate the Acolytes of the Beyond into the Knights of Ren, and turn Ben Solo into Kylo Ren, who he is preparing as the ideal ultimate host for him to take over and rule the galaxy.

“Always two there are, no more, no less”

While these actions may have been Palpatine’s modus operandi since his death, it likely wasn’t his plan all along. I believe his plan all along was to inhabit the body of Anakin/Vader. As he cultivated Anakin, he eyed him as the ideal embodiment for his eternal spirit. After Anakin’s defeat to Kenobi, Anakin still remained the only viable option for Palpatine, so Palpatine essentially made him into his idealized form: Darth Vader. After Palpatine’s death in ROTJ, he did not attempt to possess the dying body of Anakin, and moved on to his next best choice: Yupe Tashu.

If this theory of cultivating Anakin to serve as his “host” is true, it would give credence to the Master-Apprentice model of the Sith: the incentive for the master to cultivate an apprentice is to develop a host to inhabit after the master passes. This is why Yoda explains in Episode I “Always two there are, no more, no less.”

This brings me back to the Master-Apprentice relationship between Darth Plageuis and Darth Sidious. Palpatine explains “the power to cheat death is a power only one has achieved.” I believe that after Darth Sidious killed Darth Plageuis in his sleep, Darth Plageuis actually began to possess the body of his old apprentice, Darth Sidious. If true, this would mean that for the duration of Episodes I-VI, the character we see as Palpatine/Sidious/Emperor, is actually a person possessed by Darth Plageuis. This would mean that following his death, Plageuis actually moved to the body of Palpatine, then Yupe Tashu, eventually Snoke, and then Matt Smith’s character in Episode IX. So in a way, those who surmised that Snoke was Plageuis will be proven right (from a certain point of view). If Ben Solo has an opportunity to defeat the immortal spirit of Darth Plagueis the Wise, he will be able to redeem the Galaxy and restore balance to the Force.

I also believe that Plageuis, in his original incarnation, had some meaningful relationship to the original Skywalker (the ancestor of Shmi that we’ve been hearing about), and may actually have BEEN the original Skywalker who then fell to the dark side and learned the power to “save people from dying” and “create life.”

More on the original Skywalker in a separate post...

 

Palpatine is dead in the IX/TROS timeline.
But... he exists in past timelines.
So Resistance might time travel to the past to do something -or get something- to fix their present....?

 

I still largely believe this theory that I articulated earlier, but now with one caveat. I’m no longer entirely convinced that it was Palpatine who killed Plagueis in his sleep. We’ve essentially taken this as a given following episode III, but I think it’s entirely possible that there were a number of Sith Lords between the first incarnation of Plageuis and Palpatine. I do believe Plagueis was the one who first discovered how to live on after death in the body of his dark side apprentice, but I’m now thinking that his original apprentice that killed him in his sleep and served as his first host may have been another. If this theory is true, it could make Plagueis far more ancient, and a presence in the galaxy for hundreds or thousands of years.

I do still believe there is a meaningful connection between Plagueis and the Original Skywalker.

 

This also makes me think, could Palpatine be Snoke? And, if so, he is now looking for another host. My theory is that the Jedi have the opportunity to become Force Ghost, and the Sith possess new host to live on in an attempt to become immortal.