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Mara Jade - Will She Be Canon?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by ZebroGodilla, Jan 31, 2015.

?

Will Mara Jade Be In Canon and TFA?

  1. Yes!

    9 vote(s)
    8.0%
  2. No

    63 vote(s)
    56.3%
  3. Just Canon

    18 vote(s)
    16.1%
  4. TFA and the Sequel Trilogy is where she will first appear

    7 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. I'll comment below about what I think

    8 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. Who?

    7 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    They can, but they have strongly implied that they won't. However, we could still see some characters based on previous ones: Kylo Ren wears a mask very similar to Revan's, there is much speculation that Kylo and Rey may be twins ala Jacen and Jaina, there is a rumor that Captain Phasma might be kind of a reverse Mara Jade (was at one time Luke's wife, then turned to work for the First Order; or maybe is a double-agent). The problem with reintroducing the same characters is that fans will disagree over who does and doesn't deserve that treatment; some want Thrawn to come back, some want Revan, some want Ben Skywalker, some want Anakin Solo, etc. Not only would committing themselves to reintroducing these characters limit the stories they could tell, the question becomes would these characters be the same as we knew them? Would Mara still be Mara if she wasn't the Emperor's Hand? Would Thrawn still be Thrawn if he didn't launch his campaign against the New Republic? These characters are shaped by the events in their stories; knowing that the story as we knew it has completely changed, would they still be the same characters or would they feel shoe-horned in as fan service?

    I think the best we can hope for is an animated adaptation of Legends, maybe as part of the rumored Netflix deal. Other than that, we've gotta except that those stories and characters exist only within the novels/comics/games in the Legends continuity, and that the new canon will be forging ahead with new characters and events.

    Star Wars is not a comic-book series; the canon reboot was a hard pill to swallow, but at least it wasn't the kind of "soft-reboot" that is common in comics, where things get "shaken up" but eventually return to basically the same status-quo.
     
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  2. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

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    Bravo! I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read that or it would have exited my nose and sprayed the screen :D
     
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  3. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Given the recent news (rumours?) of Lucasfilm creating content for NetFlix, anyone else think a SW Legends show would be a good idea? It could be introduced by the droids (perhaps) and presented in a format that acknowledges its non-canon status.

    The shows would work if they were framed by an in-canon intro/outro that explained each story (show) represented a story that was only legend in TGFFA itself. Just a thought....
     
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  4. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would love to see an animated Legends show. Something like this (fan made, but still awesome):


    Edit: Really, @Batman ? How does this deserve a "Dislike"?
     
    #64 Luuke22, Aug 1, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Great video. BTW I just want Mara Jade to be remembered like this.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    #65 Grand Master Galen Marek, Aug 1, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
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  6. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    This is Just me but I'd like old characters like thrawn and Mara to return.... I think that its posible for them to keep their back stories from before we ever saw any stories of them and everything. The difference would be like an alternate universe. The old EU could be see an alternate star wars reality that isn't the real one.

    I think in term of Mara I would love it if she was in it and Luke had alove story. given that he won't be one of the "main" characters but still a relatively important one. it's conceivable that her story could be told in flashbacks or in VIII or IX

    I think this would be cool
    Luke meets Mara shortly after the fall of the emperor. Their is a mad dash for power. and Thrawn ends up commanding the empire for short period and is the main threat during the Battle of Jakku. maybe he caused the fight. Mara is a Mole sent over from Thrawn to discover the rebellions plans. She meets Luke and the two begin to form a bond. she begins to doubt the empire and questions her loyalties. in the end she helps Luke to take down Thrawn. They get married and Luke starts the Jedi academy. From there maybe they have a son or a daughter or a son and a daughter,
     
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  7. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    This could work, but already my gut reaction is to reject it and say that both of their stories were much better in Legends; this is the exact kind of thing they don't want to happen with the new canon, so they're not going to touch the old characters. It's better to have new characters and let the old ones remain untouched instead of trying to adapt them and facing fan backlash.
     
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  8. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    I see what you mean, and you aren't wrong. But I think they could do it and I don't think that fans would be that upset... If the essence of the character was still there.
    For example: Mara having the vengeance thing against Luke... as cool as that was to see her go from hating to loving luke.. I wouldn't mind seeing an alternate version of that story. That being said with my idea the essence of that is still there. With Mara being a mole that turns rebel. I think the important part in there relationship is showing how Luke changed her. I have always wanted to see the EU characters in movies.... now this is our chance.... Am I worried that if they do it they'll ruin the character? No. I think that Lucas film has a good thing coming whatever it is. I am interested in seeing what the story unfolds. I am okay leaving those stories as legends. but I would still be happy if some of the characters came back. In the interest that the character is that character... I'm fine with stories being different though.
     
  9. gunslinger19

    gunslinger19 Clone Commander

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    A show based on Legends but no to adapting Thrawn into canon? That is just crazy and would confuse people. They can just rewrite a character's entire history and incorporate them. The Solo twins may be different because they come from already established characters, but someone like Thrawn is entirely independent and could be retooled. Fans would love it more than not I think and I can't imagine the new writers like Rian Johnson or Filoni wouldn't love to write for Thrawn.

    Its like here you are SW, perfectly established fan favorite characters with cool names, cool designs, die hard fans and they're not going to even adapt one single character? Instead lets introduce Admiral Beard Guy in that new mobile game...
     
  10. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    How dare you! Admiral Beard Guy is my favorite EU character!

    :p
     
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  11. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I'd love to see some of them adapted into the new canon too, but I really just don't see it happening. If they were going to do something like that, they would have announced that "some of your favorites may be returning." Instead, they said that "the stories we loved will remain Legends."

    I stand by though that we might get the essence of certain characters written into new ones. I still think Captain Phasma is loosely based on Mara Jade for a few reasons, and if it turns out I'm right then we'll still have something of her around; it would also double-down on the fact that we won't be getting a canon Mara.

    I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Many of those character designs might make it into canon (like the Chiss or the Noghri), but the characters themselves will remain Legends.

    The problem with adapting them into the current canon is that everyone who knew them would expect them to behave a certain way. If Thrawn shows up but is just a Moff who and doesn't use art to predict his opponents' strategy, is he still Thrawn? If Mara shows up but she's now an Inquisitor, but she never has to struggle with the Emperor's "Last Command", is she still Mara? The only we can get the same characters we loved if for them to experience the same events; the events shape the character in good storytelling, not vice versa. Instead of "screwing up" old characters and risking fan ire, why shouldn't they do their best to create new ones for us to love?

    That being said, "Admiral Beard Guy" looks like a lame character in an extremely lame game. However, if they had used Thrawn for a mobile game I might have just given up on the franchise; at least I don't need to play that thing to learn anything relevant that I can't read in a paragraph or two online, so I'm okay with lame characters there.
     
  12. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    I don't know J.J is pretty secretive it's conceivable that they wouldn't tell because they want it to be a surprise. Captain Phasma as you said might be loosely based based on Mara... I for one don't see that happening because I don't know anything about her character and she doesn't really seem to fit Mara's character as far as I've seen even being loose;y based on her. It's possibly and I don't count anything out until I've seen the movie. One thing I kinda of want is for General Hux's character to actually be based on Ben Skywalker.... and be some type of double agent... I don't think it'll happen though. I think it's possible that we'll see versions pf the characters but not the actual character. Take Rey,... by alll account she is Jaina Solo.... from everything Iv'e heard she could be the film version of Jaina. In personality and Role but a different story. I will be okay with or without these EU characters but part of feels that people would love it more than they think, and I feel like if it works why not.
     
  13. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    JJ is secretive, but he's also honest (he even owned up to the Khan-debacle, and it wasn't his idea in the first place). He's been up front about anything he's shared so far, and that includes not using old EU characters. Rey and Ren could very well be similar to Jaina and Jacen, but they won't be the same characters because they will have gone through different events. If they were going to use Jacen and Jaina, they could have just said "these movies will be a continuation of the EU stories you loved, but this and this didn't happen."

    So there almost certainly will be homages, but bringing in old characters with new backstories is just bad storytelling; they'll never be the same character becuase they weren't shaped by the same events. Sure, you could bring back Thrawn and say his backstory was the same, but the events of the Thrawn Trilogy never happened, but then anything that shaped his backstory becomes canon (like Outbound Flight) and now fans will say "Well why not make the rest of it canon too?" Instead, maybe General Hux will study art in order to predict his opponents' moves; we have an homage to Thrawn without shoe-horning the character into the new canon.

    As for Captain Phasma, there was a rumor at one time that she was (or may still be) Luke's wife and that Rey is their daughter. Double that with the fact that she seems to work for the First Order and that she just might use a lightsaber, and you've got a character pretty similar to Mara Jade. The same? Not by a long shot, but enough to be said she was "based-on."
     
  14. Glennfett

    Glennfett Rebel General

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    Wasnt Karen Gillan from the Dr Who tv series and who played Nebula in Guardians of the Galaxy donating her hair to star wars?
    I am pretty sure that was from an interview she did.long red hair.......
     
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  15. Grand Master Galen Marek

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  16. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    I see what you're saying I just don't think we can say for sure weather it couldn't work until we see it. I agree someone whom hasn't had the same life events wouldn't be the same person.. what I am suggesting though is that they would be like an alternate universe version of the people (Without it actually being) that maybe events were the same but not all leading to differences between then. That could even mean that Thrawn became who he is through different events. But they could build in a destiny thing suggesting that even though it may happen at different point Thrawn would have always become the villain we know. similarly Rey could be just like Jaina in many ways personality wise like you said paying Homage to her character. I just think that anything is possible...but I do agree with you that it is more likely we will only see similarities to other characters to pay homage. as for Phasma being Lukes wife. she too young to be married to Luke unless they had a marriage where they were like 25 years apart in age difference. I for one wouldn't have a problem with Mara Jade having a different back story and all that as long as the essence of her character was the same and it wasn't such a drastic difference the her character wouldn't even be possible. that goes for all EU characters
     
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  17. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    I love your post so much. Well thought out and give me a lot to think about and reply to.

    1) I understand your point, but only partially agree with it. People love superhero films. They are often different from the comics. People still recognize all 100 versions of batman, as batman. Of course some will always be miffed by this, most will like it as long as its good. Two examples. Batman the animated series completely changed mr freeze. No one cared because it was awesome. Catwomen with Halley Berry completely changed catwoman. This isn't why the film sucked, but became something easy to focus on and blame.

    2) I'd love this so much. I've long said that they should do like WB. WB makes amazing direct to video adaptations of some of the seminal DC graphic novels. When you adapt a book into a feature length film, you typically have to cut 80%. (game of thrones season 1 was pretty faithful, and took 10 hours, these are rough, general numbers). You'd have to change it so much anyway, that adapting it into the new canon would be easy.

    3) That's why I hate comics. They try to sell issues with big events, and then every few years, they just reboot the whole universe. Spider man is dead? Spider man is now a half black half latino? Spider man gets married? Mary Jane dies? No worries, wait a year and all those ballsy decisions will be reversed.
     
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  18. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I do see your point, but then we'd be entering a territory where we're comparing New Star Wars to New Star Trek; we have the same characters we loved, but they're just a little different because certain events were different. I'll always be extremely fond of the EU and all its characters, but continuing forward with new characters is really the only way I can see them keeping the franchise fresh and original.

    The thing is, Star Wars isn't a superhero franchise. Different iterations of those characters work because they are archetypes; Batman can have 100 different versions of him so long as they all stay true to the basics of Batman (rich, parents died, afraid of bats, trained in martial arts, smarter than everyone else, uses gadgets, doesn't kill, etc). His villains follow the same principle: they all represent different things about Batman's psyche, so as long as they stay true to that then the nuances of each character can change.

    Mara Jade isn't an archetype, though; she's a strong woman, but one who used to work for the Emperor, was devastated by his death, and eventually redeemed by Luke Skywalker, who later became her love interest/husband. Thrawn isn't an archetype; he's a brilliant military leader, but an alien who rose through the ranks of a xenophobic Empire, who studied his opponent's artwork to understand their strategy, and who forged his name by the campaign he led to see an Empire resurgent, not to mention his untimely death by his own bodyguard. You could try to include these two in new stories and bring them into the new canon, but there's a glaring problem: the canon reboot.

    If they wanted to include fan favorite characters like Mara and Thrawn in the new canon, why reboot the canon at all? Why not keep the events that introduced them as well? Why not do a "soft" reboot, in which the characters still exist but the events they participated in can be changed as needed? These are the kinds of reboots that happen all the time in comics; Batman might have different events that shape his character, but in the end he's still Batman. What we got instead was a "hard" reboot, a slate that was wiped clean. In terms of comics/superheroes, it's like if Batman never existed, nor any version of him; Gotham still exists, the universe still exists, but that character is gone and the story will continue with a new hero in his place.

    So while I would love to see characters like Mara and Thrawn come back, the way that they've handled this whole ordeal means it is highly unlikely we'll ever see them again. The best we can hope for is some kind of non-canon Legends adaptation, or a continuation of Legends (though, to be fair, both of those characters are dead in that continuity).
     
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  19. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    I agree I am just hopeful haha
     
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  20. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    It’s okay if you liked NJO. I believe Star Wars fans were split just about down the middle with half approving and the other half disapproving of the direction they chose to go. However, while NJO and beyond has been erased with Chewie being alive, it hasn’t all been erased, at least not yet. It's not officially erased unless something happens in canon to contradict it. The more I look into this, the more I realize that Lucasfilm and Disney didn't really have a choice. Apparently George Lucas completely torpedoed the Jedi Academy Trilogy in the Prequel Trilogy wiping out nearly all post ROTJ EU in one fell swoop. I've also learned that both George Lucas and Lucasfilm's new story group really didn't like NJO. The only one they seem to dislike more is Dark Empire. They also seem pretty adamant that two events in ROTJ are final. The first is that the Emperor did not come back as a clone (They realllly don't like Dark Empire).

    The other is likely to be what will upset EU fans the most; Boba Fett never escaped the Sarlac. With so little of the post ROTJ EU left intact, they had to do a reboot of some kind. We all need to realize that nothing is set in stone at this point. There's been an amazing amount of secrecy surrounding the new movie and they are obviously not laying all their cards on the table before the movie comes out. As long as the Thrawn Trilogy remains uncontradicted, there is hope for it and Mara Jade to be canonized. As to the discussion about adding characters with history and archtypes, Mara Jade has an archetype. There are two linchpins to her character:

    1. Being the Emperor's Hand. Even if all of the stories of her as the Emperor's hand are erased, if she is still the Emperor's Hand, the linchpin is still there.

    2. Being redeemed by and falling in love with Luke Skywalker. Even if the Thrawn trilogy is erased, as long as there is a story where they meet, Mara is redeemed and then falls in love with Luke Skywalker, the linchpin is still there and the character would still be Mara.

    They said the characters wouldn't have all of their EU history but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't be the same characters. It will be Mara but she just won't have gone through the stories that have been erased. The Thrawn Trilogy is safe for the moment. In fact, Heir To The Empire was recently featured on StarWars.com where it was credited as one of the most important works in Star Wars History (not something they would likely do if they were planning to erase it from existence). On Valentine's Day, the same site listed the top six romantic couples in the Star Wars universe and Luke and Mara were ranked #2 behind only Han and Leia (for those interested Anakin and Padma didn't even make the list). Add in that it has been confirmed that JJ Abrams met possibly multiple times with Timothy Zahn and there is a very good chance that Mara is going to be in the new movie. I also think the trilogy could still be canonized though it might have to be revised depending on what happens with Jaina and Jacen.
     
    #80 Shadrac, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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