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Mara Jade - Will She Be Canon?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by ZebroGodilla, Jan 31, 2015.

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Will Mara Jade Be In Canon and TFA?

  1. Yes!

    9 vote(s)
    8.0%
  2. No

    63 vote(s)
    56.3%
  3. Just Canon

    18 vote(s)
    16.1%
  4. TFA and the Sequel Trilogy is where she will first appear

    7 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. I'll comment below about what I think

    8 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. Who?

    7 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    Sorry, but they have specifically said that all the EU was wiped, not just NJO-forward. That means Heir to the Empire as well. They're already rewriting the events; Aftermath and Shattered Empire will be the first post-RotJ stories in the new canon, and we know that the Battle of Jakku is something that happened about a year after Endor and will be featured in the upcoming Battlefront.

    I loved the EU, but we have to deal with the fact that it's gone. There is some hope that it might eventually get continued in-print, but for the time being in exists only under the Legends brand. StarWars.com may feature things from Legends from time to time, but that's because it always has and continues to acknowledge its importance to many fans. Legends exists, we can still cherish it, but as far as the new movies and new canon is concerned, none it happened. As of D-Day (the day Disney bought Lucasfilm), the canon includes: all 6 movies and TCW series. Anything released after that is considered a part of the new canon, such as the Rebels shows and all books, comics, and games that do not have the "Legends" banner; everything else is no longer considered canon.

    So no, there isn't all that much hope for seeing Mara in the new movies.

    And it's been let slip that Boba Fett did escape the Sarlacc, though we've yet to see the "official" story as to how. ;)
     
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  2. SuperBenKenobi1992

    SuperBenKenobi1992 Rebel General

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    They only said the stories to my recollection not necessarily characters... It possible they'd at least use those characters as a platform for another. Rey may not be Jaina but she could be based on her.
     
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  3. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    As we discussed earlier in the thread, it is very possible that they are basing some of the new characters on the old; Rey could indeed be based on Jaina, but she's still not Jaina. She's not named "Jaina", doesn't have a twin named "Jacen" or a little brother named "Anakin", and she most certainly did not experience the same events as Jaina. If anything, she and Jaina both fit a pseudo-archetype, that of a young, headstrong, brunette Solo daughter (if in fact Rey is a Solo).

    Please refer to the following articles by SW7 in regards to the new canon:

    http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/06/the-complete-guide-to-the-new-star-wars-canon.html
    http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/05/pablo-hidalgo-discusses-canon.html
    http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/04/star-wars-celebration-anaheim-regarding-the-canon.html

    In particular, note this quote from the SW7 coverage of the canon discussion at Celebration Anaheim: "The old EU (Legends) was completely liquidated to avoid playing favorites; it was described as being a tough call, though completely necessary."
     
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  4. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    That's what I first thought when her character was first revealed.
     
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  5. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    Hey guys, OP here. I see that in the last few weeks, my poll has been buzzing! To clarify, and add new info, after several more months of TFA trailers, details and info, I am for certain saying that Mara Jade is not in TFA. BUT, I think there will be acknowledgements of the EU of old. Maybe Kylo Ren's mask, as the rumor continues to persist, is the one Revan found (or a Revan-type character) Maybe Mara gets the same sort of treatment. I think, canonically, that would be the extent to what would happen. But seeing how things like the Imperial Troop Transport were simply redesigned and brought back, I won't lose out on hope that she is CANON, or a character very much like her, and has a connection to Luke and the Emperor, exists. Years from now, we will know :D
     
  6. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    Everything I've read on the Story Group indicates that their opinion (and their opinion is apparently the only one that matters now) is that Boba Fett DIDN'T escape the sarlac. I've read all of those articles and much more. They did unilaterally declare the EU non-canon but that's not the end of it. One of three things will happen going forward:

    1. If it's contradicted by a canon work it is permanently erased from the continuity and relegated to an alternate universe.

    2. If its referenced by or used/appears in a canon work than it becomes canonized but not necessarily with it's/their entire EU history.

    3. If it's neither contradicted or canonized, it remains a legend that may have happened/existed.

    All stories/books/trilogies/series from The Jedi Academy Trilogy onward have been erased by the prequel trilogy. Disney Lucasfilm having Chewie alive is basically just giving the middle finger to NJO as it had already been erased. Dark Empire will be erased or at least will never be allowed anywhere near canon (As I said in my previous post, they really don't like Dark Empire). EU content from ROTJ to the Thrawn Trilogy have not yet been contradicted so are still legends that could become canon. That said, Even if all the books, comics, etc. are eventually erased, the characters, settings, objects and even some events won't be. For example, Luke may still have created a Jedi Academy but just not as it was told in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. It may be that it was established in another time or place or just under different circumstances. Mara Jade may not have met Luke in the Thrawn Trilogy but still could have met him as a former Emperor's Hand with that meeting having the same effect (see my previous post) and Mara would be canonized and still be the same character even though none of the EU stories may have happened. My point is, it's far more complex than simply saying the EU has been wiped and no longer exists. Much, if not most of it, probably will be erased or relegated to being the basis of a new character/setting/object but I firmly believe there will be many things, places, characters and even stories that will be canonized eventually.

    Back to the subject of this thread; Mara Jade. She is head, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles and even feet above the rest of the EU combined when it comes to importance and relevance in the EU continuity. She isn't merely a main character in a single story/book/trilogy/series but is one of the main characters of the entire EU saga. She became almost equal to the Big Three in the EU continuity. Her back story was meticulously created to fit neatly into canon without any continuity issues and would be the obvious first choice of all EU characters to be canonized. No one would question why her and not someone else as I would agree could happen with other characters because it would almost be expected now that there are new movies coming out that occur after ROTJ. I have no idea if she will be in the new movies but, given that Zahn and Abrams met at least once if not multiple times, it's certainly possible that she could be. I've only found two trailers so far and neither one gives much clue to what the story is.

    FWIW: I don't think Rey is going to be Han and Leia's daughter. She looks to be a character that grew up on a backward planet without full knowlege of who she is or where she came from. Sound familiar? Apparently every Star Wars movie trilogy has to start with one ( at least it's not Tatooine this time). Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT. Given Luke's voice over that is so similar to his speech to Leia in ROTJ when he told her they were siblings, I think she could to turn out to be Luke's daughter. They could also be setting up another dramatic revelation moment for episode VIII ala Vader telling Luke 'I am your father' and make Kylo Ren her father. He even wears a mask like Vader did.:)
     
    #86 Shadrac, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  7. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I've gone over this same argument far too many times; believe what you want to believe. Boba Fett is indeed alive; I'll link to the article when I find it. Mara Jade was an excellent character, but she was tied to the events of the EU and really has no place in the canon as it stands. And the events of Heir to the Empire are already being erased by the Aftermath trilogy and the Shattered Empire comic. I loved the EU, all of it, but it's gone and been replaced by new stories. Some things will remain, like species and planets, but the events and characters are gone. Saying "anything is Legend until we make it canon or it gets overwritten" is just a way to placate us, the EU fans, who had a hard time with the decision; everything will be overwritten as they continue to fill in the new canon, but meanwhile they can continue to sell Legends books under the guise that "maybe this will be included in the new canon someday."

    And this argument has been made in several other threads and doesn't really belong here, but Rey can be a Solo and still fulfill all the requirements of the Skywalker archetype; if she's the daughter of Han and Leia, she's just as much Vader's granddaughter as if she were Luke's kid. Making her a Solo seems to fit with the continuation of the Big Three's story from RotJ, as the last time we saw Han and Leia they were in love. Making her Luke's daughter would require loads more exposition than the alternative: who was Luke's wife? Where is she? What happened to her?

    In fact, this leads into my final argument against including EU characters in the new canon: exposition. Say they introduce Mara in the ST; is this her first time appearing in the canon, or does she have a new backstory we're supposed to know? If she's new, the focus is on her and Luke's dynamic, and we already know that Luke and the others are only "Legacy" characters; the focus will be on the new heroes, with the old supplementing their journey. If she's already been introduced in not-yet-released canon, then we have to explain within the film, through clunky dialogue, who she is and why she's important to the plot; again, the focus becomes her and the old crew, which we already know is not happening.

    So why not include her in the novels and comics leading up to TFA? Well, for one, I get the feeling that the new canon won't be as serialized as the EU was; the Big Three aren't going to go on countless adventures, they'll instead have an large narrative that leads them to TFA while many of the stories in that time period will be told using supporting characters. In addition to that, if Mara just becomes another supporting character, will we be satisfied with that or will there be calls to include her in the movies as a major player? See the above paragraph for the problems inherent with that.

    Look, if we were getting these movies 15 years ago instead of the PT, I would be all over the idea of including our favorite EU characters and events in the cinematic stories. But what we're getting instead is a new story that focuses on new characters, ones that may have a similar feel to some of our old favorites but that are still distinctly unique. Maybe someday we'll get a continuation of Legends in print, but that'll be a day far after the ST has finished. We have to face it: these new movies are being made for everyone, not just us EU fans.

    Oh, and Boba Fett is totally alive. Numerous sources have confirmed it, but think of it from a marketing standpoint: Disney bought this franchise because of its iconic characters, and Boba Fett is one of the most marketable, iconic characters in the whole collection. They aren't going to abandon him in the Sarlacc, abandon all the money they can make off of him, just to make their new canon "feel different."
     
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  8. darrenkitlor

    darrenkitlor Rebelscum

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    I thought Mara Jade was inserted into the special edition as the dancer arguing with Bib Fortuna or someone else from Jabba's crew? Or was that just the EU explanation of the insert?
     
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  9. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    You mean this?
     
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  10. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    That must be a fan made video. The audio is from ROTJ Radio Drama.
     
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  11. gunslinger19

    gunslinger19 Clone Commander

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  12. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    I did some Fett specific research and found out that most of those rumors came about because Fett is going to appear in the upcoming Battelfront Video game. However, that game is, by virtue of the nature of the game and it's lack of an overall story/campaign, NOT going to be canon. I dug deeper though and learned that the Story Group's official stance on Boba Fett is that he is both dead and alive in the sarlac until an approved story pulls him out. So far there isn't one but it looks like there probably will be at some point.

    Neither Aftermath or Shattered Empire have come out so we have no idea if they will overight anything yet. However first up would be Truce At Bakura, Rogue Squadron and possibly Luke Skywalker and The Shadows of Mindor. Unless it's specifically contradicted, they have five years to go before they get to The Thrawn Trilogy.

    As to your exposition argument. This movie is taking place 30 years after ROTJ with those thirty years being a completely blank slate. No one is going to expect alot of details about those years. The focus of the audience will be on the big three regardless of what the story focuses on. If Luke didn't marry or have kids, the audience will want to know just as much details about why he didn't as they would about who his wife and kids are. If he has a wife, they will be just as curious whether it's Mara or a new character. It would actually be less with Mara as even those who aren't fans or familiar with the EU are at least aware of who she is. However, your exposition argument in general is weak for two reasons:

    1. The audience will expect to get no more than a general idea of what happened during the previous 30yrs but also know what details they do get, both on the old and new characters, will be given to them throughout the entire trilogy and not just in the first movie.

    2. The movies have never been big on exposition anway with the novelizations only having a little more detail and that the full back story will be revealed in the new canon expanded universe in books, comics, possibly more movies or even a television series with young actors cast as younger versions of the big three. Most of which hasn't been written or possibly even decided on yet.

    BTW: There is no indication that the big three are merely 'Legacy' characters in this trilogy. The two trailers tell us nothing about the story and the whole production has been so secretive and tight lipped that the actors weren't even allow to take scripts home to memorize their lines. In fact, the actors only got to see the pages of the scenes they were in so they don't even know the whole story. We might know more when the third trailer comes out but, until then or the movie is released, everything is pure speculation.

    I would actually disagree about the new canon not being serialized. I think the one of reasons NJO and beyond is so disliked by Disney and Lucasfilm is that they weren't serialized but were instead long drawn out narratives by several authors. None of which blended with each other very well. It didn't help that they were also very dark with NJO being a virtual apocalypse on the Star wars Galaxy and the heroes began being killed off. The very basis of the creation of Star Wars were the Flash Gordon space opera serials that George Lucas grew up watching. The OT followed that formula. The heroes may get hurt or captured but they always survived and won in the end. That same formula has also been a staple of Disney productions since it's inception because, like Lucasfilm, it has always sought to produce entertainment for the whole family. Now that the two are joined, they will likely double down on family friendly entertainment going forward. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2015 ---
    This article definitely opens the door for Mara Jade to possibly become canon.:)
     
    #92 Shadrac, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  13. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    Frankly speaking, legions of fans love Boba Fett, and since 1983 many have been disappointed by his apparent death. If a small but vocal group cared, then we would have the occasional comic, book inclusion and standalone, much like Mara Jade has. If we had a overwhelming majority love a character, then we would have a huge amount of EU comics, books, toys, and even the inclusion of Boba Fett into AOTC and The Clone Wars series and The Clone Wars legacy. Rumors about his fate will strongly persist simply because decades of Star Wars fans, young and old, casual and hardcore, have generally wished to see more of him. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised to see both a spin-off movie and a Boba Fett return in the Sequel Trilogy and as early as Shattered Empire.
     
  14. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    Mara Jade fans are definitely vocal but they are not small by any means.;) Frankly, I was never big on Bob Fett myself. To me he was a minor villain in ESP (Vader was the main villain and even Lando was a bigger villain for a while) and about fourth on the list in ROTJ behind the Emperor, Vader and Jaba. He died in a matter fitting with how a minor villain or major villain's minion should.:)
     
    #94 Shadrac, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  15. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yep the audio does sound different.
     
  16. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    You know what, you're free to believe whatever you want. But the EU was wiped clean, not selectively; Heir to the Empire is a great book that introduced a number of great characters, but it's not canon and will not be canon in the future.

    It's not the Battlefront trailer that says Boba Fett is alive, it's an article by J. W. Rinzler in 2014 that says he is. The story group says "he is an he isn't", but there's been rumors of a Boba Fett movie (or Netflix series) for a couple years now, so they're obviously not going to spill the beans during a Q&A.

    I stand by my argument that including someone like Mara in the new canon without her going through the same events that she did in the EU woul dbe a huge mistake; she wouldn't be Mara, she would be a pale imitation that we're told is Mara. I'd rather they base a new character off of her and let good old MAra rest easy in her place in Legends.

    And I don't know what you've been reading about the new movies, but the Big Three are absolutely "legacy characters." Carrie Fisher herself coined the term. These new movies are not the continuation of their adventures, much as we'd all like them to be, but the tart of new adventures with a new generation of heroes. I say again, dragging character that meant so much to the Big Three in the EU into the new movies would either completely shift the tone their already setting out to accomplish or it would delegate those characters into a minor cameo role. Let them stay in Legends where we can always enjoy them, and let the new movies do what they want without being bogged down by previous canon.
     
  17. darrenkitlor

    darrenkitlor Rebelscum

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    No, but I saw that.

    I remember her being one of the dancers arguing and in the accompanying EU story, she wasn't able to dance and take out her target (which was Luke, afaik).
     
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  18. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I know thanks to Jabba she wasn't allowed to come along for the execution that duel with her would have been great on the sail barge instead of him slicing his way through Jabba's henchmen.
     
  19. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

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    If you read my previous post again, you will see that I now agree with you about Boba Fett. Also, you're right, I wasn't aware of Carrie Fisher's statement. I stand corrected. My apologies if I'm going over ground you've already discussed on other sites several times. You have to understand that I only heard about this change about a week ago and have been learning all I could since then. I came across this thread and decided to join in.

    If you click the link a few posts above, it will take you an article about the Story Group where they say that they WILL be bringing some EU characters into canon. Mara Jade would and should be at the front of that line. Also, I still stand by what I said in my previous post about the movies. It doesn't matter what Disney/Lucasfilm or JJ Abrams want the focus to be in the new movies. It's the big three that all of us fans want to see. We want to know what happened to them after ROTJ. We don't know the new characters and have no emotional investment in them yet. The big three, on the other hand, have been beloved, iconic characters for almost 40yrs. The new characters, no matter how good they are, can't possibly compete with that.

    Frankly, it would be fine if Mara only had a cameo appearance or was only mentioned as being Luke's wife. That would be enough to canonize her and set her up to be a major character in the new Canon EU that will soon be filling up the now blank 30yrs between ROTJ and SWFA and WILL be the continuing adventures of the big three. Reread my previous posts for why they could canonize Mara without any of the stories and it would still be our Mara. I stand by that argument as well. :)
     
    #99 Shadrac, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
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  20. Luuke22

    Luuke22 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I read that article, and the way they put it is extremely ambiguous. They say that the EU was wiped in order to avoid playing favorites, but then they say they have plans to include some of the old characters; it makes me think that they're just keeping everyone's hopes up so they'll buy the new EU but all we'll get is smaller characters that were technically in the old EU but had no real importance.

    It is the Big Three that we want to see, and that's why they're included in TFA (and probably the rest of the ST, in some capacity). But they're not the focus of these movies at all; they're there to pass the baton to the new characters, they're the draw to get us in the theater but the story that unfolds will (hopefully) invest us in the new generation. It's like if the PT was made first and this was ANH: we already know who Obi Wan is, and his inclusion, while technically the continuation of his story, is to help us connect to the new generation of heroes, as he's the one that ultimately connects the three and brings them together. The movie is not about Obi Wan, though; it is about Luke, Han, and Leia. That is exactly how you have to think of the Big Three when approaching TFA. If Obi Wan had had an old love interest show up in the film, it would have derailed the plot and taken the focus away from the Big Three; the same goes for Mara in TFA.

    I still stand by the assertion that the events shape the characters, not the other way around. They could put Mara in the new canon and have her go through basically the same events, shaping her into basically the same character, but it wouldn't be the same. The new Mara would just be a shadow of the old, and everyone would always compare her to the original. The same goes for any important character from the old EU. The Big Three are obviously going to be different in TFA than their counterparts in the old EU, but, again, it will be because they have experienced different events. If you throw in Mara and Thrawn, if you make Heir to the Empire and other big stories canon, then you might as well just canonize the rest of the EU and make these movies a continuation of that story. It's not though, it' an entirely new path and it makes no sense, other than fan service, to throw in carbon copies of old elements into the new mix.

    I realize that you're new to all this, but this is something that most of us on here went through roughly 2 years ago. If you're the kind that is okay with spoilers, please peruse the TFA forum to get a good feel of what the new movies will be like. If not, check out some of the new EU material and take my word for it: the ST will not be the counterpart to the EU that some of us hoped for. It's a continuation of the saga, but in many ways it's a whole new story with a whole new cast of characters; think of it as the OT of the new cast, and now that the franchise is in Disney's hands we'll eventually get a sequel to this new trilogy with the new cast, much like we wish we would have gotten with the old cast instead of the prequels.
     
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