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OFFICIAL NEWS Mark Hamill reveals George Lucas Arc version for Luke's death

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    This article is a great summary of this whole debacle and once again proves that THE CREATOR himself changed his mind on "the great plans" quite frequently. People clamour for pre-planned storytelling and they'll get it with RJ's trilogy and once again will be disappointed with the outcome, because it didn't work out the way they wanted.
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Ironically, this is effectively what Lucas had mused about back in 1977.
    source
    Building this sandbox and then inviting others to play in it was a goal he toyed with way back when. He wound up having far more ownership over the property than he expected though. I think it’s pretty cool that this is ultimately where things have ended up. Each new storyteller adding their own little flavor and expanding the myth ever more. Like an epic poem in the tradition of Homer. I’m curious to see how this plays out.
     
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  3. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

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    I agree the baton concept is interesting, and would have been appropriate for a non-Skywalker film/trilogy. Then they could have taken SW anywhere.

    The reality from that '77 comment is also that GL would've still be the foreman on sight to wrangle story threads, lore, themes, creatures and discussion even if he didn't direct the actors and they played with his 'toy(s)'. He had a lot of ownership with the PT, and at the end, but it was more balanced and collaborative with the OT. I can see KK wasn't up to the creative side of his trust, and I don't know if Filoni would be good either, but that is something that is missing from LFL right now, a new dedicated visionary. A Charlie Buckets to oversee Wonka's factory.

    Again this is all subjective on both sides. Did GL tell MH and CF a different ST story when they first sat down to lunch in pre-TFA days? Maybe.
    Could GL have changed his mind immediately after lunch on the toilet? Sure, as demonstrated by all his various comments since the early 80s about the ST, but where there is smoke, there is fire. I think we can agree the baton passing was the foundation of the ST with a few GL and Arndt ideas tossed in for good measure <> the GL trilogy, and MH likely got a different version of Luke from GL. That is all I am saying, but again no matter how we slice it, the ST we get will always be compared to his vision - he is the creator.
     
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  4. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    Where in the article is that stated? It can be assumed based on Lucas putting Luke in a remote area that the version of Luke was similar. The plot and story about what Luke does was certainly different based on this article but to say there was a different version of Luke envisioned by Lucas is stretching the story.
     
  5. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Knowing Lucas, its probably a version and not the version. Narratives are only fixed when they're released.
     
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  6. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

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    I am not stretching anything from the OP article, nor did I say anything is more than subjective on all sides in both of my posts. I said 'likely' based upon MH historical and continuing statements. This is not a debate of what we got or said quality, but what MH heard from GL. You can call his reaction a disappointment, surprise, dismay, odd or whatever - that isn't the point here. MH was not playing the Luke he expected and that was in large part due to his own vision, but I think we can take the plunge here and assume he discussed things with GL. Period.

    Don't be the designated semantic police troll, and make me post the definition of likely into the thread because I will. Clearly you have no more insight than I, but you can't discount the actor's comments which is the discussion.
     
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  7. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel General

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    I find it silly to suggest, as some have, that "Mark Hamill doesn't know but I do and MH doesn't know what he is talking about."

    Hilarious.

    Hamill wasn't happy with the portrayal. He wasn't happy because he envisioned something different. He envisioned something different because he was intimately involved in the character's development with the creator of the character.

    To suggest different is ridiculous.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    Mark Hamill ranks TLJ his second favorite Star Wars movie next to TESB.
    guess he must not have been too unhappy with it. [shrug].

     
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  9. Contreras1991

    Contreras1991 Rebelscum

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  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    "Favourite since TESB"...but yeah, he loves it.

    I just wanted to be annoying and correct you once....for once. :p
     
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  11. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    There would always have been a need for Rey, because no one else has been able to get to Ben for at least a decade. Luke burnt that bridge, Han and Leia seemed to have burned it too. Snoke and Kylo, after the destruction of the Republic, are nigh unstoppable leading the FO. Maybe a force powerful Luke and Leia combo could tear it down through brute force, but they were both far past their prime. Even Obi-Wan wasn't nearly as formidable in ANH as he was in the PT. Also, I'm not sure if Luke and Leia would have been able to kill their own nephew/son. Again, if Kylo can't be turned to the light, then maybe Rey is the only one who could complete the tasteless act of killing him.

    I don't think it would have made the story worse or better, just different. Without seeing what we got now though, I think everyone who loves this version would have accepted the alternate version with Luke and Leia kicking some behind. We just would have had less dissent as I think many who dislike and hate this version, would probably have accepted the alternate version better.

    Edit: As for the inevitable "But Luke leaving Han and Leia would have made things worse" argument, maybe they have a discussion and they agree it's the best course, or better yet, maybe Han and/or Leia blame or partially blame Luke and want him "away".
     
    #31 Sparafucile, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2018
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  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    If Luke is always around, then Rey isn't really going to be in danger and Luke can do the heavy lifting. Do we really want Rey's only role to be that of Kylo Ren's muse? She needs the weight of the Resistance on her shoulders to work as a hero. Luke carrying the majority of the load will just diminish her character intro irrelevancy.

    As for the "past it" thing - looking back at the OT, post PT, it makes little sense as we saw Yoda, Dooku and Sidious kicking a lot of a$$ in their old age. That was just a casualty of the success of Star Wars and evolution of the story.

    It's hard to qualify that. But my feeling is that if Luke and Leia were kicking butt and still both alive, the main story would be bland. This trilogy rides on the central story of Rey and Ren. Diminish that story and you diminish the entire trilogy.

    That may be the case but for RJ, that ship had sailed as soon as JJ made a film about Luke being missing and Leia searching for him. What's more, regardless of Han & Leia telling Luke to stay away, do you think he really would've and should've if he felt through the Force that either of them (and a large chunk of the galaxy) were about to die? Of course not. He had to be cut off from the Force. He had to be broken in some way. And then he had to die. Thankfully, RJ managed to skilfully redeem Luke within those parameters and allow him to display the most incredible and selfless show of Force seen throughout the trilogies.
     
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  13. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Luke and Leia could have been used against the KoR, nothing says either had to be holding Rey's hand (did not intend this as a pun until I reread it haha).

    lol, we've been through this a few times in other threads... suffice to say we disagree :)
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Well, in that case I'll let George Lucas have the final word. ;)

    As you're building to the climax of an endeavour such as this, you want the situation to get more and more desperate and you want the hero to lose whatever crutches he or she has helping along the way. One of the challenges here is that Luke should be completely on his own. He has to face the Emperor one on one.
    - The Annotated Screenplays (Laurent Bouzerou), 1997
     
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  15. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Excellent quote, but Luke and Leia could still have died against the KoR in TLJ (or another scenario) and Rey be ready to go on her own in EPIX. I did not mind that Luke died, I didn't like the choices made by RJ to make him so dark and disturbing (flashbacks). I could have accepted him on Ach-toh, mad at the Jedi, disconnected from the Force even. I just think there was room in there for him to still have an active part in the story. Imagine Luke dying at the hands of Snoke, Rey and Kylo both watching (a reversal on Luke vs the emporer with Vader looking on). Imagine Kylo then killing Snoke, Rey thinking it was because he's turning good, but really it's because he had a huge opening. (Imagine the symbolism of that... the big bad and big good both die, keeping the balance between Rey and Kylo)

    I just think there was more that could have been done, and that they could have kept a bigger portion of his goodness and hope. Oh, and lose the saber toss. Had that scene been intense, instead of goofy, I think it would have gone a long way to getting me into the movie and forgiving some of it's other issues along the way.

    Yes, you can pick at my alternate scenario(s) and show me how they don't work. Obviously any change would require alterations elsewhere to some extent, great or small. I'm not going to re-write the whole movie. I'm just pointing out there were options and Rey would not have to necessarily been seen as less than. I think she could have still been very important in the moment and toward the future with an active Luke.
     
  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    We can move the pieces around all day, but each move brings with it its own problems. In this scenario, we need to get Luke off Ahch-To and bring him to Snoke's ship in the first place. Would it make any sense for Luke to be able to get that close to Snoke? It's the same logic used for why the Jedi needed Luke in the OT. Only he could get within saber distance of Sidious and Vader. And to be honest, I could imagine far greater fury at Luke being taken out by Snoke who then gets taken out by Ren. Majorly disappointing.


    Oops, my bad :p
     
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  18. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    What if Kylo and Luke planned it (enemy of my enemy ect...)and as fans we knew they did (or they showed it as a flashback later on). That Snokes hatred of Luke ran so deep he wanted to kill him himself (typical villainy thing to do). Then Luke did the Obi-Wan pose (vs Vader), similar or exact same quote. I don't know if fans would have been disappointed. Just saying RJ's vision did not have to be, there are alternatives that could have pleased more fans and kept the essence of the story together. I'm sure TLJ story got tweaked dozens of times before we got what we got.
     
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  19. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    You mixed in a clear fact with a murky opinion and said, "I think we can all agree". Not to continue being the, "designated semantic police troll" but this is how lists work. If you state something at the beginning, it applies to all items in the list: "I think we can agree on X, Y, and Z." So I'll summarize what you stated, "I think we can agree ... MH likely got a different version of Luke from GL." No I don't think we can agree with that, I certainly can't.

    If you want to word your statements differently then be my guest. In my opinion, that was an intentional use of language and not an error.
     
  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I've seen a lot of people who initially didn't like TLJ, but who have warmed up a lot to it since.

    I don't get why people can't fathom how Hammil might have also had his impression of the film improve over time, and instead resort to believing some ridiculous (and incredibly low stakes) conspiracy theory.
     
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