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Maybe Luke went back in time to save his mom

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Xeven, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    Maybe he stepped through a transgalactic portal into an alternate canon where the writing was actually good.
     
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  2. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    Retconning the majority of a saga, one that has gone on for over forty years, in the final movie seems like a great way to screw over the fans and people who were emotionally invested in the characters and story. Not to mention that it’d completely alter the Original Trilogy, the movies where this whole series started. This is a definite no from me.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Come on, the writing was never really that good. It was always simple and convenient.

    Exactly. It's a cheap move. All the love we developed for these characters and stories would be gone in one movie. Furthermore I wouldn't be really invested in new movies then, because I always have to keep in my mind that all these things can easily changed again by time travel...
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    it has been written like old pulp novels because that's what it is based on. and if anyone EVER read those old pulp novels...they'd know that the writing was um....less than stellar.

    This is why I'm very curious to see how Marvel handles it. It has to be a shut door once all is said and done.
     
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  5. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Just no to anything that isn't Luke being dead and is now a force ghost:
    • No to Luke teleported himself to another planet
    • No to Luke faked his death
    • No to Luke went back in time
    • No to Luke transferred his spirit into a new body and he is actually broom boy
    • No to any theory i have not read or heard about yet!
     
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  6. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Attuned

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    Luke going back in time and changing history would mean that the OT never happened. Remember Han Solo replying "I know"? Never happened.
     
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  7. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    "The majority of sequels to Alien were poorly written, so come on, it's perfectly fine that the writing in Covenant and Prometheus is terrible. They're just based on sci-fi slasher B-movies, after all. The writing doesn't have to be good or make sense."

    "The majority of 80's and 90's Star Trek movies are littered with poorly-written duds like Final Frontier, Insurrection, Nemesis, etc, so come on, it's perfectly fine that the Abrams Star Trek films have awful writing. The franchise is rooted in a campy sci-fi series from the 1960's, after all.The writing doesn't have to be good or make sense."

    "The 80's Conan The Barbarian film was simplistic and plagued with weak writing and acting, so come on, it's perfectly fine that the writing and acting in the 2011 Conan The Barbarian movie is awful. It's just based off of pulp magazines from the 1930's, after all. The writing/acting doesn't have to be good or make sense."

    "The original Pirates of the Carribbean movies are littered with style-over-substance and logic gaps, so come on, it's perfectly fine that the writing in Pirates 5: Dead Men Tell No Tales is so abhorrently bad that it makes the film borderline unwatchable. It's just based off of a ride from Disneyland, after all. The writing doesn't have to be good or make sense."
     
    #27 Darth_Nobunaga, Nov 1, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    ConstantEveryLacewing-small.gif

    Nice deflection attempt there.

    Star Wars is and always has been based off of campy pulp stories. It's entire ethos as a story is built on camp wherein an unseen magical power imbued to a certain few enable them to make miraculous things happen at a whim and create new never before seen powers depending on the entry.

    I could go through and just explain the lazy attempts at deflection you are trying to make here as if there is one unifying rule on how or why a movie works. but you won't care. Your mind is made up. The problem with your comparing The Last Jedi to most of the other films you list, is that it is actually good. Especially if you want to use writing as the determinate of good/bad. That's the single WORST hill to try to win when it comes to trying to knock TLJ, because as an exercise in writing, it's objectively great.
     
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  9. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    Considering the point I was replying to, I'm clearly not the first.

    Star Wars is based on a multitude of things. It's based on TV Serials, classic adventure stories, jidaigeki cinema, various mythology, as well as pulp novels such as John Carter from Mars and band-dessinez like Valerian & Laureline. Just because it has some of its roots in pulpy or simplistic influences doesn't excuse entries within the franchise from suffering from uninspired writing choices, vapid plot decisions, and poor world-building.

    I can point out that Conan the Barbarian from 1984 as well as the Conan comics from Dark Horse are based on source material found in the pages of juvenile, exploitative fantasy fiction that was done largely to entertain audiences for a small price and short extract of time. That doesn't wash away the horrible writing and Godawful plot in the 2011 Conan film. The '84 movie, and the comics even moreso, didn't use the shortcomings of its source material as some kind of shield. They strove to be quality pieces of media in their own right, regardless and even despite the tone and trappings of its source material, while simultaneously living up to the genre expectations of sword and sorcery that its source material founded. The 2011 Conan film did neither.

    Not to mention that while you see the mythology and "magic" within the Star Wars universe, inconsistent as it is, as a wave-away for things like poor writing and plot decisions, I can promise you that George Lucas doesn't see it as some inexplicable magic deus ex machina that has no rules or limitations. You can absolutely point out his failure in achieving it, but it's quite evident that he was going for some ground rules and consistency with the Force. If he only left it as "inexplicable space magic", he wouldn't have taken the time for things like time and training, a Jedi Order with prestige and students, the concept of midchlorians, or a whole host of other things....things that the people working on canon materials like Clone Wars and Rebels (the former of which had a mountain of involvement from Lucas), continued to uphold as in-universe gospel when expanding on the Force's inner workings and complexities. It wasn't random happenstance or deus ex machina: even if the franchise didn't start that way, the Force became something that was explained and had rules in what it was and how it could be used, no matter how much you may think it may detract from the mysticism or overcomplicate things.

    I'm sorry, but who's made up their mind here?
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    1. Does it excuse it? No, but it's baked into the ethos of Star Wars. You either accept that it is or you don't.

    2. Again, you are missing the point. Conan 2011 is a poorly made movie that took itself too seriously and did virtually nothing right. It missed the mark on every level. It's poorly written. Poorly acted. Poorly designed. Poorly shot. It came out at a time where certain styles were weirdly prevalent in movie making but never seemed to work outside of the Nolan Batman movies

    3. George made it this when he consistently just added new Force Powers in each entry. So maybe don't speak for the guy who made it that way? Stuck in the ice? Now you can force pull! Need a guide and I killed off the last one? Force Ghost! Need to run really fast or jump? Force has you covered. Need to win a race? Force = flying skillz. He literally made it that. There are ZERO rules about what the force can or cannot do in Star Wars canon and there never have been. It has always been there to do what the writer needs to, but now that it's not George making it up, somehow it's bad writing?

    4. Take all bias out of the story. And just read the story of The Last Jedi. Replace Luke with "John" and the Force with "Power of Zeus" or something. Jedi for Knight. It's a good story that is well written. You can argue the Canto Bight stuff is superfluous and I think it's fair to say he was clearly disinterested in it in comparison to the Luke-Rey-Kylo arc. But the story he tells is very well written, objectively. If you don't agree with decisions that's COMPLETELY different than saying it's bad writing. I don't like Fight Club, but I'm not going to argue it's poorly written. Do this same experiment with any of the movies you listed, and it doesn't hold the same kind of water.
     
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  11. blazingbolt

    blazingbolt Rebelscum

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    Maybe the Luke on Ahch To wasn't the real Luke. Maybe Real Luke discovered the world between worlds during his journeys and stayed there learning more about the past and the future, and maybe Ahch To Luke stepped out of the world between worlds and went a different solitary path. Maybe real Luke will be found in the world between worlds and come back and kick some azz. Neh probably not....lol
     
  12. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    But Luke vanishes and his robe poofs to the ground. That's what happens when Kenobi and Yoda force-ghosted. I get that we can make a hypothesis that he didn't force-ghost but, why? It's like watching X-Man Nightcrawler disappear in a cloud of smoke with a BANFF! and hypothesizing he didn't just teleport like every other time we saw him disappear in a cloud of smoke with a BANFF!

    I do get the "why no metal hand?" thing but anything other than force-ghost raises the question "why the robe poofed to the ground?" But do we actually need to hear the clunk of a metal hand in that scene? I personally think I'd rather not hear the metallic clunk there to be honest.
     
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  13. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    What I take from this is, can you imagine Luke from TLJ appearing in ROTS. It just highlights to me the vast difference in style, quality and tone of the two movies.

    Although going from the TLJ to ROTS is more of a match than say Luke from ROTJ going back to ROTS. He would be so out of place it would be jarring for every single frame.
     
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