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Midichlorians worse than anything in the ST

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Lock_S_Foils, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I vividly remember sitting in the theater when midichlorians were introduced and I was like...."wait...WHAT???"

    Absolutely, IMO, the worst idea ever introduced by Lucas.

    The concept of midichlorians is so bad, it goes way beyond any negative or controversial ideas/concepts/characterizations from the entire ST.
     
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  2. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Disagree, although I am slightly biased because i grew up with the prequels and it's my favourite trilogy, plus the Darth Plagueis novel made me like the idea a lot more, it opens up some big story potential. There's actually some pretty deep and interesting lore behind the Midichlorians, but I can understand the dislike for it.
     
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  3. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I
    I can respect that.....I have never read the Plagueis novel. As far as MC’s, it just felt so contrived to have a scientific explanation for something that I thought should be left “mystical”.....
     
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  4. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    yeah, I share the same sentiment. I never had a problem with the m's, but I understand where others could. I'm glad George didn't feel the need to press the issue and make it more of a thing in the next 2 prequels

    It does seem funny to me that while it's almost a throwaway line in TPM, at the same time it had so much gravitas for the franchise in general.
     
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  5. Klabauter

    Klabauter Clone Trooper

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    I think people are and were overreacting about Midichlorians tbh.

    They are basically only an explanation as to why some can use the force better than others or can use it at all. They aren't the force. They didn't create the force. They are basically what a wand is for any wizard in other franchises. A tool to gain access to the use of magic or in Star Wars "The Force".

    The Midichlorians didn't really change anything. Before their introduction some people could use the force because they could and some couldn't just because they couldn't. It was mysterious as to who has the ability to use the force and who hasn't it. After their introduction some poeple could use the force because they had a high M-count and some couldn't because they didn't have a high enough m-count. It was still mysterious as why person A had a high M-count and B had a low M-count.

    Essentially they changed "mysteriously having the power to do space magic" to "mysteriously having a high M-count and therefore being able to performe space magic".

    Also for those who still view this a demystifiing the force we got the "Cosmic Force" as a second mystical "aspect" of the force. Which also seems a lot more powerful than the "Living Force" is.

    Or in short: I don't mind Midichlorians at all as I don't think their introduction really changed anything if you think about it...
     
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  6. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I can respect your opinion....however.....my point was that I thought we didn’t need an explanation at all, period. I would have preferred the entire explanation being “the force”. But from what I understand Lucas was contemplating delving even deeper into MC’s in future movies....
     
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  7. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    I totally get that too. But let's look at it this way: why do some people have a higher M-count than others? That is still mystical in itself, right?
     
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  8. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    I like that.

    I think the main problem people have the midichlorians is that they take away the "Anybody could be a Jedi" aspect of the story. But I think that, even in the OT, some characters had more sensitivity to the Force than others. Like, I always assumed that Luke and Leia were so strong in the Force because they inherited it from Vader.

    So even in the OT, there was some sort of selective hereditary aspect to Force-sensitivty. The prequels essentially just give it a name.
     
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  9. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    I never really minded them, but I was a kid with the prequels and just kind of accepted it. Over time, I’ve just kind of chalked them up to mainly being an indicator, like..”where there’s smoke, there’s fire” but more “where there’re midichlorians, there’s the Force sensitivity.” Unless there’s a piece of lore I missed

    this, for me at least, flows well enough with introductions like Chirrut, who seems to hear the Force more than most but not quite Jedi seeming, and the talk Luke has with Voe in Rise of Kylo Ren, where sensitivity or strength in the Force can be more fluid depending on how much one is willing and able to open themselves to it.

    Adding the panel in mind because I mentioned it and just love it
    6137E5A2-C2F5-437D-8E57-E4CCF9123795.jpeg
     
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  10. Klabauter

    Klabauter Clone Trooper

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    Midichlorians just indicate ones potential to the force. Much like some people are natural talents in mathematics or art or whatever. That doesn't mean other people cannot be very good or even better at those things. People with higher midichlorian count basically start from a better more effortless starting point. They can be beat though as we have seen multiple times. For example with Kenobi winning his duell with Anakin despite Anakin having a higher M-count.
     
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  11. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    I know a lot don't like them. I just took them as it was.
     
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  12. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Attuned

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    honestly i love midichlorians, but thats because i like star wars for the history and science and trade negotiations
     
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  13. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Since we're on the topic of Midichlorians:

    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
    I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the Midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic, he could save others from death
    , but not himself.

    - One of my favourite scenes in Star Wars.
     
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  14. Midi-Chlorian

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    Hi everyone! New here.

    Midi-chlorians are what would have brought the saga forward. In the OT and the PT the midi-chlorians were always in the background. George Lucas probably already had the idea of them back in the 70's and the 80's. They were mentioned by name some years later.

    [​IMG]

    I love them. They are great. And here are some thoughts:

    1) First and foremost in this topic: The midichlorians ARE NOT the Force. They are part of the being communicating with the force. Just like the tongue speaks to our brain what the the taste of something is. Just like our ears are telling us how something sounds. And just like how the parts of our eyes reflects our feelings to the ones we are attracted to. This is what Qui-Gon means when he tells Anakin about the midichlorians. And Joe Popcorn did not understand this. Away we go -- a dumb sequel trilogy about nothing was given us.

    2) The Midichlorians are also awesome because they show how blind and stoic the view of the jedi is. They count midichlorians and have all these stupid stats. That's why they fail. Their philosophy rely too much on midichlorians rather than on the force.

    [​IMG]

    3) The Jedi fail because they are scared of Midichlorians. They don't know what their full potential is because of their narrow and dogmatic view. The Jedi is orthodox and dumb. The Sith -- on the other hand -- let it all go, and thus they are digging deep into this mystery of the force. And that's why Palpatine is winning Anakin over to the dark side; Palpatine at least has an argument and a vision: bringing people back from death and ultimate power. The Jedi has no vision and lives in a fog of vague sayings.

    4) What if STAR WARS isn't about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker but rather the story about how the forces of nature is fighting to reach balance between the elements? I mean: George Lucas wanted to dig deep with his sequel trilogy. He wanted to show and research the beauty of everything. Maybe he wanted to show us that the Skywalker saga is just a part of something bigger: nature itself. What if the fight between good and evil in STAR WARS is a result of midichlorians trying to establish balance in the living world? What if the midichlorians actually achieved a balance when Palpatine threw Mace out of the window. What if the midichlorians actually wanted only Luke and Leia to be alive after the death of Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, and Obi Wan? After all: Luke and Leia weren't raised with the dogmatic view of the Jedi, neither the greedy view of the Sith. Luke and Leia had all the Potential to bring balance to the force. But then the ST happened....

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I was thrilled they brought it back in Mando; albeit in another name.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I think midichlorians are ridiculous and only made worse by Lucas' approach to the PT in the first place. The fact that these were being used to de-mystify the force to a degree in movie that already felt a bit wooden and robotic at times doesn't help. The delivery of the message is as important, if not more, than the message itself. If the introduction of the midichlorians was interesting and engaging and not Liam Neeson sounding bored talking to an 8 year old....
     
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  17. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    What is your M-count than @Lock_S_Foils xD?

    Don't know really why GL has brought MC in the game but it gives me a little funny moment or two if I think about some former ideas in the GL realms, discussed from some of the web and social media folks, that Episodes after ROTJ should have been about the force in microspace xD

    Maybe they just tried to show how extraordinary the chosen one really was, even or especially in comparison to Yoda.
     
    #17 oldbert, Dec 9, 2020
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Can’t say I entirely agree here. Before TPM and the mention of those microscopic whispering bugs, use of the Force was presented more as a state-of-mind. In the OT, we only had Luke’s journey. His development was based around the impediment of self-doubt. It was a matter of belief in himself, the invisible world around him, and the connection between the two.

    This gave the impression (at least to me) that everyone had the potential to learn the ways of the Force. The limitation then laid in ourselves and our closed minds. It’s about growing beyond our self-imposed ceilings, putting aside our egos, and having faith in something greater. Not everyone can achieve that disciplined state of awareness and so not everyone can be properly taught. It’s about the emotional/psychological maturity of the individual, rather than arbitrary heredity. Made enough sense to me anyhow.

    Adding a biological prerequisite to that is, well, deflating to me. Pushing the notion of genetic gatekeeping really bummed me out back in 1999. It’s sort of like saying someone can’t learn to play music because they weren’t born with the music gene. Might as well go be an accountant then I guess. I don’t think that’s necessarily what George was saying, but that’s how it came off to me back then. Really rubs me the wrong way.

    At this point, my head-canon is that midis are merely lifeforms attracted to the Force. The Force itself is beyond the detection of artificial instruments. It’s presence can’t be observed with a computer. But the midis, which are indicators of its presence, can be. Like astrophysicists detecting blackholes by observing the distortion of gravity. Whatever whispering about the will of such and such they might do, isn’t all that important. A person has a strong link to the Force because of who they are as a person. The stronger that link, the more midis are drawn to them.

    My only real criticism about them at this point is how little they factor into the actual story considering how prominently they were presented. Yeah, Anakin was ‘maybe’ created by them. Palpie ‘maybe’ helped that along. But what else? They represent the theme of symbiosis and environmental equilibrium, but that doesn’t really go anywhere in the PT. Is the relation between the Jedi and the midis lessened during the Cone Wars? Is that “symbiont circle” damaged? Is it repaired when ‘balance’ is restored? They aren’t brought up again in any meaningful way.

    Maybe George was planning to get back to them with his ST and make them relevant. But otherwise, those little bugs lift right out of the narrative and that’s just some untidy storytelling in my opinion. Unseemly.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Ultimately this is what I hated most about them in 1999 and what I hate about certain decisions made in 2019.
    It closes things off and becomes gatekeeping, which feels like the antithesis of what Star Wars should be.
     
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  20. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    Wow. This question is almost one of those that my better judgment tells me I should avoid. But like a moth drawn to the fire I can't help myself. LOL

    Personally I'm NOT a fan of midichlorians. I felt like it did take away from the mystical aspect of the force and quantified it. Yoda has the highest count and then Windu and then so on and so forth. But it's there and in the end it didn't ruin anything for me. Honestly it does feel like a throw away line/scene. Heck I think in the directors comments George says that scene with Qui-Gonna and Anakin was added in later anyway.

    Like many things prequel trilogy, I think this got blown out of proportion by some fans. Sadly many of whom were like me and had seen the OT films in the cinema and had these oversized expectations for what the pt would be. The films would NEVER live up to the hype and wouldn't be able to effect film making/release time, etc... the way A New Hope did.

    Are they worse than anything in the sequel trilogy? I would say no. Not even close. I think there are several things in the ST that are worse than the midichlorians, but that's just me.
     
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