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Midichlorians

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Vegeta Fett, Sep 16, 2014.

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Did you like midichlorian's being added to the story

  1. Yes it makes sense

    33.0%
  2. No it is not the way I imagined it

    35.2%
  3. I don't really care one way or the other

    27.3%
  4. What's a Jedi

    4.5%
  1. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    I don't get the whole blood test the entire senate thought process. A forceful mass blood test of the countless senators of the Republic would be viewed as an invasion of privacy, not to mention people could falsify, or tamper with the genetic material to alter their results. Even after all that, what are the Jedi going to do with any sensitives? Imprison and interrogate/ torture them until one admits to it, even if it's a lie so they can possibly end their suffering? It doesn't take much imagination to figure out why this whole idea is absurd.
     
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  2. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Well the Republic was losing rights before then, if it resembled real life.

    But if the Jedi Order made an official request, Palpatine would have used that against them....hey that actually would have worked as a plot device!
     
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  3. Onid Bonazzo

    Onid Bonazzo Force Sensitive

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    I don't think I could have said it better myself Djas. Midichlorians should be seen as "micro-conductors" within living matter in which the force may flow more easily through. I personally don't care one way or another when it comes to the existence of midichlorians hidden deep within the microscopic cells of all living things, since we all can agree that they don't ultimately effect one's actual 'force powers' rather than their sensitivity to it. As long as Star Wars intends to leave the gap between science and mysticism untouched when pertaining to the force, the franchise should continue to be unhindered. Why wouldn't the Jedi order have a more scientific and biological way to observe the force? Like Djas said, at a time when the Jedi are at the height of their reign, the old ways and explanations of the jedi have been long lost by the time of the Original Trilogy.
    I say WHY NOT?
    Just don't go any more in depth with the force from a biological perspective than we already have. We need that mysticism.

    (boba fett)
     
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  4. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Rebelscum

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    That's odd. I find it hilarious when people attack these objectively speaking great masterpieces of movie making.

    Don't they get that if they don't like the movies that is merely their opinion and has nothing to do with the objective fact of their brilliance.

    I would think that is all very clear.

    That is also fact. They really don't change a thing that was not established in the OT already. The Force is an energy field that surrounds and penetrates all living things.

    Nothing has changed. All that has really happened is that what was known was expanded. The living Force penetrates the cells of beings through the communication with the midi-chlorians that the Force influences and manipulates.
     
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  5. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Yeah, I was thinking that could have been a morally grey plot point for the trilogy.
     
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  6. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    Does this greater cosmic Force also protect children in Syria? People with bone cancer?
    (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    What I wanted to mention is that my younger self was very intrigued re: ancient aliens too. And, of course I devoured everything that came from Camp Ancient Alien Theories. And the more I immersed myself in the subject, the more convincing it became: I was no longer a seeker of truth, because I only searched in sources that already confirmed my bias, already enhanced my "experience" if you will.

     
  7. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I voted "it makes sense to me". I know a lot of fans who went into the film with preconceptions (some of which they'd been carrying around since 1977) but I wasn't one of them and I don't believe that going into the viewing of a film with that much baggage is helpful to the viewer concerned (or the film itself for that matter). Much of the criticism aimed at the prequels came from what the audience expected to see rather than an objective critique of the aspects of the plot (Anakin's reasons for falling to the dark side or what the clone wars were, for example). The introduction of midichlorians is no exception to this.

    When they were introduced to the story I thought it was a genuinely interesting idea (that being in tune with all living beings is the key to understanding life, the universe and everything) made even more pertinent during the scene at the opera in ROTS.
     
  8. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    Trying to extent the scene in order to keep the sci-fi lore, and in the same time disprove the idea that the strength in the force seems directly related to the midichlorians-rate.


    [Initial part]
    (ANAKIN) Master Qui Gon, I was wondering: what are midichlorians?
    (QUI GON JINN) Midichlorians are microscopic lifeforms that resides between all living forms.
    (A) They live inside me ?
    (QGJ) Inside yourself, yes. We are in symbiosis with them.
    (A) Symbiosis?
    (QGJ) Lifeforms living together for mutual advantage. Without midichlorians, life couldn't exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you.
    (A) I don't understand.
    (QGJ) With time and training you will.

    [Added part]
    (A) Master Qui Gon, who is Master Yoda ?
    (QGJ) Where did you get this name ?
    (A) I heard Obiwan tell it to you when he was aboard the ship on Tatooine.
    (QGJ) Master Yoda is a great Jedi Master. The greatest of us. A very old and very wise person who has been the teacher of all the Jedi Knights.
    (A) Obiwan said I have more midichlorians than him. What does it mean ?
    (QGJ - smiling) One cannot hide anything from you! That means you are very sensitive to the Force.
    (A) So I will be a great Jedi ?
    (QGJ) It is not as simple as that, Any. The amount of midichlorians alone, does not make you a great Jedi. You will become a great Jedi according to your actions and the decisions you take - not because you have a huge amount of midichlorians. They are the way you communicate with the Force, but you cannot control them.
    (A) I don't understand...
    (QGJ) One can have a low level of midichlorians and be powerful in the force. So are some species, for example, the Yinchorris that live on planet Yinchorr. They have a low level of midichlorians, but they are very strong in the Force. Same with some sort of lizards that live on the planet Myrkr, we call them ysalamari, and they also are very powerful in the Force while they have very low levels of midichlorians. Conversely, the wroshyr trees that live on Kashyyyk are enormous trees who are several kilometers high and shelter whole cities in their branches. The wroshyr trees reach a high level of midichlorians, approximately the half of a human normal rate... but even that, a tree cannot become a Jedi! So, what make you a great jedi, or not, is not your midichlorian rate : it is what you will do with them. You choose to become a great jedi or not, the midchlorian do not decide that for you. Only with time and training, you will learn to become a great Jedi.



    Tell me ???
    (*) The ynchorris case is directly taken from "Dark Plagueis" I am currently reading. Their strength in the Force vs their low level of midichlorians is stated in that (legends) book.
    I invented for the wroshyr trees.
     
    #68 daRinze, Mar 29, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  9. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    Why would you want to disprove that strength in the Force is related to someone's midichlorian count?
     
  10. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    Because (I think) it is not. If it was so, Anakin-rate > Yoda-rate > Obiwan-rate would imply Anakin should have overtaken Obiwan, because he was stronger than him, because "the more m/c you get, the more powerful you are". In fact (I hope you agree), the problem is not so simple. This is the reason why I think the midichlorian count is only a "potential", that has to be studied and worked in order to express fully.
     
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  11. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Obi-Wan had more experience than Anakin. More importantly, Anakin's emotions were out of control during the duel. If he had managed to keep his emotions in check, chances are Obi-Wan would have been maimed or killed.


    And the midichlorians not only served to measure the individual's strength with the Force, but also served as a metaphor for the symbiotic situation between the Gugnans and the Nabooans on Naboo.
     
  12. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I agree that it's not a simple equation of 'more equals better/more powerful'. I think Anakin's high midichlorian count indicates how in tune he is with life all around him. Yoda - certainly at the time of The Phantom Menace - spends much of his time cut off from the rest of the galaxy, sat in the Jedi Temple, stroking his chin and meditating. He is out of touch with the living force and is representative of an order who have grown detached and aloof.
     
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  13. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    I actually kind of liked the idea of midichlorians, because it shows how the Jedi Order has become arrogant and is serving the Senate, rather than the Force itself. This has made them less spiritual and more reliant on facts and evidence. It shows how they would rather use a blood test, rather than the Force, to tell them if the person had what it takes to be a Jedi. I just think midichlorians were poorly explained, because some people think that midichlorians ARE the Force, rather than what determines a person's Force sensitivity and allows them to use the Force. I think that anybody can use the Force, but the more midichlorians/Force sensitivity you have, the easier it is to access the Force.
     
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  14. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I thought the screenplay made it pretty clear what the midichlorians were. I suspect that very few people were paying attention.
     
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  15. wenbilson

    wenbilson Clone Commander

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    For me it always comes back to the idea of what is the purpose of introducing midichlorian's?

    In the original trilogy, whenever there was a development in how the force is used or how it works, there was a plot specific purpose - for example when Luke sees into the future in TESB and sees Han and Leia. This development of the force ties into others areas of development, such as Luke's vulnerability "Always emotion is the future" to Luke running off "Don't give in to hate" Plot, character and lore development all compliment each other in very pleasing way.

    CUT TO - Midichlorians. They serve the purpose of establishing how powerful Anakin is, that's it. Why couldn't this be shown to the audience? Film is a visual medium. Also it's well established that "you must feel the force around you" Why not have Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan feel Anakin... Anakin's strength with the force! "The force is strong with this one" The explanation of what midichlorians are doesn't do anything to the story, it only gives a level of scientific detail to something which was mystical, this makes the viewer want to ask more questions instead of just relaxing back into the idea of it being something magical. It's not terrible, by no means. But in my mind it was a needless addition. Props to George for trying something new though, takes balls to take risks!
     
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  16. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Well they were discussed after roughly 30 minutes of senate and jedi exposition scenes.
     
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  17. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    It didn't bother me too much and I don't think I really thought about it too much either, which may have been for the best. It kind of made sense that in the time of the Jedi they had a little bit better understanding of the Force than what we learned through Luke, and without thinking too much of the spiritual vs scientific business was just like: oh, they can quantify how strong somebody is in the Force, that's kind of weird. But I saw a lot of weird stuff that day. It moved the plot along, gave them a legitimate reason to bring Anakin along and herald him as the coming of a prophecy. The last of which I disliked more than Midichlorians, it kind of seems like Midichlorians were just a little plot device to prove Anakin was who Qui-Gon thought he was. I wonder if George even realized the debate it would spark? He may have thought fans would like it. In general we do like the harder sci-fi aspects of Star Wars but also with just the right amount of fantasy/magic. I think Midichlorians negatively affected the latter for a lot of people and I can see why. I had a lot of other problems with TPM though.
     
    #77 NunbNuts, Apr 14, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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  18. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Once again . . . the midichlorians served as a symbiosis between a living being and the Force. This was pointed out in the movie. I'm making a guess here, but it seems to me that it also served as a metaphor for the relationship between the Nabooans and the Gungans. After all, Obi-Wan did point out to Boss Nass that the Nabooans and the Gungans needed to connect in order to deal with the threat of the Trade Federation. He actually pointed out that the two races needed to form a symbiosis.
     
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  19. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    And Jedi kicking battle droid ass. And sinister Sith.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2017 ---
    Your guess is spot on (it was confirmed in the Making of The Phantom Menace by Laurent Bouzereau but even without the aid of that book, I think the metaphor is quite clear in the film).
     
  20. skywalker_

    skywalker_ Clone

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    Yes, I think you are right it is a "potential" that has to be trained. But it is a very strong sign of being powerful. It is known that Dart Vader has 27,000 midichlorians and Dark Sidious has 21,800. We all know how strong connection they had with power. But without training it is meaningless.
    Referenced from http://givemeinterestinginfo.com/2020/09/midichlorian-count-of-starwars-characters/
     
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