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Missed Opportunities of the ST - What Could’ve Been

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by JediJurist, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

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    Having watched TROS, I came out wishing the ST was re-written entirely post-TFA. TFA has flaws, but it’s strength was the introduction of some great new characters. I now think the lack of a tight overarching storyline at the outset for the three movie Sequel Trilogy doomed it. We essentially get the spawn of Palpatine saving the Universe while the only remaining Skywalker heir literally gets tossed to the side and into a hole. If this trilogy really was about the Skywalkers, it certainly turned them into a sad depressing lot.

    Got me thinking of the many ways the ST could have been so much better. Please share your thoughts. Here are mine:
    1) Having a wide-eyed, hopeful son or daughter (or twins) of Luke save the Universe. After all, if this is the end of the Skywalker Saga, shouldn’t a Skywalker save the day?
    2) Hinting throughout the ST that Palpatine was close to finding a way to cheat death instead of shoe-horning him into the final installment.
    3) Making Snoke an ancient Sith Prophet tasked with gathering whatever is needed to revive Palpatine.
    4) Making Luke fun and hopeful instead of a curmudgeon. He was the heart of the OT.
    5) Stop trying to out-do the last super-weapon with increasingly more ridiculous super-weapons.
    6) Twists— That Rey had an evil twin, that Ben was undercover, that a student of Luke’s survived, that Luke was actually hiding and cut himself off from the Force because Snoke found a way to track him, that Luke had a wife.

    Jot down your ideas below. I’m fairly certain we could’ve designed a more interesting and cohesive storyline for the ST.
     
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  2. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think you're #3 would have been a great idea. But unfortunately (and I'm going to keep saying this because when I said it when TLJ came out, I was besieged with people arguing that Snoke's death made perfect sense) at the time of TFA and TLJ I think we all are under the understanding that Palpatine has come and gone. His reappearance make as much sense as Bane reappearing.

    It's only after Snoke's death that we have to scramble to find a "Big Bad" to complete the story, and Palpatine is JJ's Hail Mary 4th quarter heave to the endzone. If they had known all along they were going to end with Palpatine they could have sprinkled hints along the way in TFA and TLJ and specifically mention him. Then Snoke as an acolyte of Palpatine makes perfect sense and culminates with him coming back.

    If the ST had been about resurrecting Palpatine all along and Kylo kills Snoke after he revives the Emperor, the trajectory of this story is far less jarring.
     
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  3. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

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    Great analysis. I guess I was most disappointed with TROS because it sort of demonstrated how there was no plan for the ST at all. I was patient and optimistic when they made story decisions I thought questionable, hoping there was more to the story.
     
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  4. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think we've known this for awhile, though many refused to acknowledge it (the lack of front end planning). Ironically though I don't put all the blame on JJ and Rian, whoever let Rian go forward with this story has to take some of the brunt of the responsibility for what happens in TRoS. If Snoke was the big bad and this trilogy centered around him, I don't think some of the elements that happen in TLJ happen, and we're not left dealing with Palpatine 2.0. The fan in me was kind of happy to see McDiarmid on screen one more time, but the continuity of the overall story (to me) falls apart.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    JJ didn't have the guts to make Kylo the villain. Instead he made a safe film. That might make some people happy, but I suspect ignoring the set up will just make some people not care that much. The film is fine, but losing Carrie really hurt this trilogy.

    We'll see the audience scores tomorrow.
     
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  6. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

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    I’ll add another few missed opportunities—

    (1) Better fleshing out the Knights of Ren or, if they really are Luke’s former students, redeeming them.
    (2) Having an actual plan to defeat Palpatine for good rather than simply showing up with two laser swords. Heck the redeemed Knights of Ren, Rey, Ben Solo, and a newly force powerful Finn teaming up would’ve been better than Rey-melts-Palpy’s-face with-two-lightsabers.
     
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  7. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    While I don't agree with some of your creative choices, I fully concur, I find myself at the end of Episode IX with similar thoughts.

    Mostly I wish I could just go back to 6 years or so and tell Kathleen and JJ:

    "Have a freaking plan. Sketch out an outline for a plot across the three films, you know the way you were taught in composition in middle school? Because just making it up as you go along is going to show and cost you hundreds of millions in revenue."

    METAPHOR: One of the worst Rolling Stone albums ever made was "Dirty Work", those who are hardcore fans know the story of how Mick (who likes to work in the morning) would come into the studio and record stuff with studio musicians (I personally know one of those musicians). Then Keith would wander in around 9PM, hours after Mick had left, COMPLETELY WIPE OUT what Mick recorded and record his own stuff (sometimes with the very studio musicians Mick used earlier that morning). They were not on the same page, they secretly resented each other and part of their creative effort was directed at sabotaging the other.

    Episode IX is to Star Wars what Dirty Work was to the Rolling Stones.
     
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  8. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    I didnt take it as that simple. It wasnt just lightsabers. It was her channeling the force of the Jedi through the lightsabers.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Would you believe Kylo as the "Big Bad"? And is a redemptive arc possible if he is? I'm sketchy on those two. And ignoring set ups is kind of how we got into this.
     
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  10. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

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    Poe: If The Emperor lives, how do you stop him?

    Rey: It’s only been done once before. And by the most powerful Jedi, Ben’s grandfather. I’m not that strong.

    Finn: There must be a way. The Jedi — don’t they have any teachings? There must be something in those old books you stole from Luke Skywalker.

    Rey: Borrowed. But no, nothing on Palpatine.

    Poe: Well you must have learned something about the history of the Jedi that might help us. How did he become so powerful?

    Rey: That’s it! Master Yoda and all the great Jedi Masters before him—they all taught that a Jedi must pass on what she has learned. Palpatine rose to power by eliminating almost every Jedi in the galaxy. We need a team of Jedi to defeat him.

    Finn: Rey, I’m in. Train me to be a Jedi.

    Rey: Finn—I’m not sure if anyone can become a Jedi ...

    Finn: I moved a rock with my brain yesterday.

    Rey: You’re in. We’ll need more. Including Ben Solo.
     
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  11. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebel General

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    She could’ve channeled the force through a banana and it still would’ve been lazy. Point is, come up with a creative story/plan for killing off Palpatine once and for all. In fact, the movie would’ve been much better if the adventure was about figuring a way to destroy Palpy instead of a convoluted scavenger hunt for a random dagger from a random dude in order to find a Sith GPS device that she never even needed.
     
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  12. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    Not seeing Luke's Jedi Academy is a big missed opportunity.
     
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  13. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    I disagree with the quest part of your answer. I do think it would have been better that the quest was to prevent him coming back, and ultimately fail resulting in the same confrontation. As for the confrontation itself I have 0% issue with it. Some sort of special dance or some other ritual or whatever wouldnt have made it any better. Maybe a little more dialogue as she is ultimately defeated would be good, then again maybe not. She did need the device everyone else didnt because she broadcast the route as she took it. Just she stole the one that was in Ren's ship by stealing Ren's ship.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    TROS is a four hours movie in a two hours package. It could have easily made the plot of the whole ST. So, this is how I would reconstruct the ST using the available ideas of those three ST movies:

    TFA stays pretty much the same, but instead of Snoke we have this mysterious and sinister figure only the bad guys know about. He leads the FO in secret, while the heroes think it's Kylo and Hux.
    This mysterious figure is hinted to be the late Emperor Palpatine. But the heroes and the audience aren't really sure about that. It's just a rumor.

    The second movie takes a big junk of the "Luke and Rey"-Plot from TLJ and combines it with the first half of TROS. It's revealed to the heroes (and the audience) that Palpatine is back. Now we can use some proper screentime to reintroduce Palpatine and explain how he survived. Furthermore we can learn more about his plan. He also trains Kylo in the force. This would be a nice mirroring to Luke training Rey on Ahch-To.
    Kylo gets the mission to bring Rey to the Emperor (just like in TROS). So he travels to Ahch-To to get her. He succeeds and takes her with him. So, Rey "rans off" just like in TLJ to face Palpatine by herself (this is the part Kylo doesn't know about). The movie ends with the DS wreckage fight from TROS. => Kylo getting redeemed and Rey escaping/travelling to Palpatine.

    This ending would give us an interessting cliffhanger, mainly because of two questions:
    1) is Kylo Ren really redeemed now?
    2) will Rey join Palpatine?

    The final movie of the ST takes alot of the second half of TROS and TLJ. But it mainly focuses on Ben's journey to the dark side. This would be unique because now we have a change in protagonists. Ben becomes the hero he was destined to be from the very beginning.
    The finale battle would use elements of the throne room fight of TLJ. But instead of Snoke it's Palpatine and instead of the Praetorian guards it's the KOR (who are used more in the previous movies). Ben and Rey beat the KOR and they have to face the Emperor, together.


    This is it for now. I know it a really rough outline (especially EPIX needs alot of work, because I don't know what to do with Rey in this alternate movie) of what could have been if we used the ideas of the current ST more coherent.
     
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  15. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I do agree that this movie is ep VIII and IX packed.

    The search for the artefact could have been a perfect ep VIII with the end of her meeting Palps in the Throne Room.

    And the idea of these sith ghosts being clones of herself sounds pretty awesome for a cliffhanger or just meeting her dark side in person like it was a force bound and not a vision.
     
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  16. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Force Sensitive

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    I plan on doing an "revision" of the entire trilogy while trying to keep as much as possible from the ST movies in. So the characters will stay (although I might add one or two depending on the needs of the story), the plots should stay roughly the same, as should the core intent of the movies ( although the Exogul stuff will probably be moved to TLJ, as will the mentions of the Dyads), and some things either entirely dropped or very changed (Palpatine). This is mostly a writing exercise for me, and it's not limited to the ST (I'm working on a Rebels revision, and eventually a Harry Potter one).



    As for quick ideas...Palpatine actually hasn't come back yet. But Sith loyalists are on the verge of bringing him back. Kylo wants him back in order to reap the power he has, Rey is torn between wanting him back (because he knows about her past) and stopping him (the right thing to do). It's revealed that Palpatine has tapped into the Dark Side of the Force so much, that he was able to power Planet Killing weapons like the Death Star and it's successor. Starkiller Base was Plaugeis' - now Snoke - attempt at the project, but Kylo killing him in TLJ meant that no more Planet Killing weapons exist. But Kylo now wants/needs that power, so he figures bringing back Palpatine and then killing the old man is the best way to do it...I might work this into my rewrite...

    In the end Palpatine doesn't come back, so Anakin is STILL the Chosen One.
     
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  17. DarthCaedus

    DarthCaedus Rebel Commander

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    I would have done two trilogies. I would have made Episode VII Vector Prime, not shot for shot but loosely based. If Ford insisted on dying he could die instead of Chewbacca. The Vong would not be without the force their tech would be force-based and devastating. One of the main things people disliked about the Vong was the weird not having the force thing. From what we know from the movies every living being is touched by the force even droids are affected by it. I know what they were trying to do. The Vong would keep their religious fundamentalist/racist ideology. Their argument would be that the force nature is brutal. The lion and the lamb don't lie down together so why should force users try to protect the weak? Another plot point is that the key to defeating the vong would at least partially involve allying with the Imperial Remnant. It would be awesome to see Republic/Imperial fleet fighting the vong together on the big screen. I would also loosely adapt Star by Star and the Unifying Force. The new trio of heroes would be Anakin, Jaina and Jacen. Jacen would not be at the forefront of the narrative until Anakin dies. When Anakin dies its a Ned Stark moment. The audience would believe that Anakin is destined to be the hero or Luke Skywalker of the trilogy but would die in Episode VIII. Kyle Katarn would be Anakin's master and they would be the action hero aspect of the first two movies, Luke and Jacen would be more pacifist and unwilling to engage in full out war. Jaina would be a pilot and jedi and would be assigned to work with the imperials. The same romances would be carried over from the books but done better.



    Skipping forward to the second trilogy it would be loosely based on LOTF although Luke would die Obi-Wan style. Jacen would have PTSD from the war and his brother's death and slowly move towards the dark side. Without Luke he leads a minority of the Jedi towards the dark side slowly. Kyle Katarn is the new Grandmaster. Jacen defeats Kyle katarn in VI or VII and Jaina would defeat him and redeem him in VII. Jacen goes into exile or is imprisoned leading into a potential third trilogy loosely based off of Fate of the Jedi or not.

    I will add more over time, I just spat this post out while waiting at the doctors office so pardon all of the grammatical errors.

    What do you ladies and gentlemen think?
     
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  18. Old Republic Citizen

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    Kylo survives as the only living Skywalker, hence 'The rise of Skywalker'.

    The epilogue would be: few years later Kylo, Rey and their child come to Lars homestead to bury the lightsabers and pay respect to the place. Final scene of the trilogy would be them 3 looking at twin sunset.

    That would be a perfect chance to make new movies for 10 - 15 years when they rebuild the Jedi order and their child is in his/her late teen years.

    The more I think about it, the more I feel that EP IX title is a joke. Skywalker didn't rise, the last of them died, and Rey is is not a Skywalker by any means.

    If there is an overall story through these 9 films, the only thing that ties them is rise and fall of the Skywalker family.
     
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  19. Jessica

    Jessica Rebelscum

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    An alternative story line:

    The film is set a couple of years after TLJ, and the resistance has started to rebuild, winning some small but significant victories.

    Kylo Ren is being driven to extremes to prove he is worthy of following his grandfather and ruling the galaxy, and learns of a unfinished plans by Snoke to build an even bigger fleet in unknown regions, on the supposed Sith home world of Exegol.

    Trouble is no one knows how to find it, and then we have the mcguffin of finding the place.

    Various adventures take place (similar to the actual film, finding Lando, the ex-storm troopers etc) as the heroes try to stop Ren finding the place. Eventually Leia connects with him and finds him, but the effort kills her.

    Rey confronts him but is partially beaten, learns she really is a nobody and Ren finds the planet.

    Finale:

    the new resistance fleet heads to the planet for a final show down. Rey, confronts Ren again and the Knights of Ren. Rey starts to turns him but the Knights are a match for her though and Rey is taken down, but Ben Solo steps in and saves her. He is redeemed but Rey is mortally wounded and passes away with everyone around her.

    Film ends with Ben and his ghost family.
     
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  20. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    One missed opportunity is a scene with Chewie forgiving Ben Solo.
     
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