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Missed Opportunities of the ST - What Could’ve Been

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by JediJurist, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Yep. In a nutshell.
     
  2. Dryden Valiance

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    In the last two pages this discussion got a bit off the rails. Now it seems about the importance of clarify the difference between the Resistance and the Republic in TFA...
    So I'll tried to bring it back to the tracks.

    In my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes in the new trilogy was not taking full advantage of Finn's character.
    Having a stormtrooper defector could interrupt for the first time the classic Star Wars cycle of Black against White (Good vs Evil) but which has now become anachronistic. I'll try not to talk too much about politics, but if the original trilogy was inspired by World War II (with the Empire embodying absolute evil: the Nazis) I think the sequels should have been inspired by the Cold War. Of course Kylo Ren would have been Che Guevara.
    [​IMG]

    The First Order was not going to be a simple "reboot" of the Empire, but something a little different.
    Also inspired by the premise of Firefly tv-series where poor and outer planets lost a Civil War.
    The First Order would be born with the purpose of giving voice to the planets of the Outer Rim (since the New Republic would be formed by the richest planets). He would still like to refound the Empire but because he believes that during the imperial era it was better thanks to the propaganda work of Palpatine.

    Finn would have voluntarily joined the First Order in this case but he leaves not because he thinks is "the right thing", but because he's not ready for the horrors of war. He takes a more active role during the films, trying to find a peaceful way to end the war, while Poe wants to fight (as he's been trained for that) and Rey is torn between both.

    In my version of the story Rose Tico is Rose Dameron, Poe's younger sister, a computer genius but with a naive and childish personality (think Ed from Cwboy Bepop).
     
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  3. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    I have to say this....but I really think that Poe's survival took a lot of focus off Finn. I like Oscar but I think the three characters that were meant to be the 'focus' were Rey, Finn and Kylo.
    If you watch TFA closely, see how all three are masked when we first see them.....then one by one the masks come off and we see human beings.

    And all three are victims of some sort of child abuse. Andy Serkis described Snoke as a 'predator', and it's constantly said that he 'seduced' Ben Solo into becoming Kylo Ren. Rey was an abandoned child. Finn was a brainwashed child soldier.

    The problem is, although I really enjoyed Boyega's comic timing, Abrams made his character a little too 'jokey'. The ST revolved around some pretty dark subjects regarding the abuse of children. I'm not saying it should have been all gloom and doom, but I would have liked it to have a more serious attitude, rather like Rogue 1. There can still be room for humour, but where Luke and Leia had stable, happy childhoods, Finn and Rey's backgrounds were very different. They tried, I think, with Rey, but still ended up making her too good to be true - we never really saw her struggle with the 'dark side' like Luke did.

    The irony is, although a lot of people ridicule Kylo Ren and his 'tantrums', his behaviour was far more in keeping with an abuse victim than either of the others. It's a shame, I think.
     
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  4. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    This is true, but most of it went nowhere. Like for example in TLJ and the whole Canto Bight parts. It was never explored further. It was really a mistake o fthe whole movie with that part of the movie to me.
     
  5. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Well, Star Wars almost never returns to locations. We had no return to, say... Mos Eisley Cantina, Cloud City, or Yavin 4 in the OT; no return to Otoh Gunga, Tipoca City, or the Outlander Club in the PT; no return to Jakku, Canto Bight, or Crait in the ST.

    It is pretty standard for SW to opt for new sites over things we've already seen, and Canto Bight is certainly not unique in that respect.

    Personally, I thought Canto Bight was an interesting place that showed new sides and cultures to Star Wars, not dissimilar to Cloud City, for instance.
     
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  6. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Not really what I was saying. I'm not talking really about just locations. I'm talking more about the whole children aspect and what was brought up about Canto Bight.
     
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  7. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Well, it WAS what you were saying, but possibly not what you ment.

    But if you're talking about a desire to see more stories about the racing track child laborers, then, well, they were clearly not meant to be major characters, but rather story beats and mood pieces to inform Finn & Rose's arcs. TLJ was never about those children, and it was hardly a "missed opportunity" that TRoS didn't feature them. Similarly, it it was hardly a "missed opportunity" that we didn't explore Padmé's handmaidens post TPM and the opening shot of AotC; these characters fulfill specific functions in the story. Of course, they could easily weave new story threads that tie back to such 3rd tier characters at a later time, if they want to, but we certainly didn't need them in the last film of the saga.
     
  8. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    I'm a TLJ fan, but yes, Finn seemed a bit too ....lighthearted in the beginning. But, as that was how his character was portrayed mostly in TFA I can understand why Rian started off with 'funny' Finn.
    But, notice how very different Finn was once they left Canto Bight.
    Rose deferred to him, not the other way around. He stood up to Hux and to DJ, calling DJ out on his mercenary nature. He fought and killed, Phasma. But most of all.... at the end of the film he was prepared to give his life for the Resistance.
    Finn was anything but funny in the final half of TLJ, and they could have explored his background so much in TROS if he had gone undercover to start a stormtrooper rebellion. We could have seen him interacting with former comrades, and it would have been especially moving if he'd been seen rescuing children who had been abducted to be brainwashed.
    TROS was such a waste - of all of these characters.
     
  9. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    coughs [CORUCSANT!] ;)
     
  10. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    I think you'll find I said "almost". Tatooine is another place we see a bit of. Naboo, too, is a place we re-visit, if you count Padmé's funeral.
     
  11. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Yeah but it's a pretty big exception. Multiple visits in the PT. Several visits in a single movie. And not to the PT's benefit IMO.
     
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  12. Dryden Valiance

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    [​IMG]
    Don't get it wrong, I hate RotS as much as you. But people want to love Star Wars, fan want the ST to be good. And arguing and talk about it's a sharing process... this is what forum are all about, right?

    I tend to be provocative sometimes, poking users quoting their messages, but it because I want to know their opinions, because I find in their message something of interest.

    We are all Star Wars fan, but we are different people, with different taste and different ideas. I would like ro know those ideas, I want to know what you've done different about Star Wars story and characters. Because there are plenty of others discussion about the "problem" with the ST, but discuss about those issues cannot lead us so far, then it would be more interesting for me to know what you would change, if you had the power to change 7,8 and 9 which direction you would choose?


    Yeah... I actually start episode 8 with a similar scene, which is literally opposite of the opening scene of TLJ (other than ANH): the Resistance fleet with the help of the New Repubblic Navy are chasing the First Order. Because for me the weakest time for the First Order would be after the destruction of the Starkiller base (which also literally opposite from the war-state in TESB It's Like Poetry, They Rhyme... hopefully).


    [​IMG]
    Finn it's the most potential waste in the ST, they could anything with the concept of a defector stormtropper and end with a comic relief.
    [​IMG]



    I don't understand why Rey must lie about her name, I know that it probably makes more sense "Solo" that "Skywalker". But why keep that scene anyway?


    The problem with Rey's background is not that was not answered, it's the fact was answered in two completely different way in TLJ an TROS, before their parents were "nobody" then were the son of Palpatine (which I never expect Disney will force me to picture Darth Sidious having sex).
    What i feel frustrating about this is the fact there was a cool opportunity for JJ to take the answer "nobody" in a quite literally way, in Star Wars there are a bunch of characters with literally no parents, and Rey could be one of them

    The lightsabers's thing it's not very relevant, but I didn't like either, JJ add a mistery about the importance of Anakin's lightsaber that don't really need to be, it's not like the Sambuco wand, for my knoledge it's not different from any other lightsaber.

    For the Snoke theory I just want to point out something that maybe maybe forget.
    THIS IS NOT HOW YOU HANDLE CRITICISM!!!
    [​IMG]
    A studio should never make fun or moking fan, it's not healthy, it's not good, it's reprehensible.
    And I understand that internet it's a toxic place, and fandom could become very hard to deal with but Disney, RJ, KK should have handled the post-TLJ backlash much better.

    I'm sorry that every original character dies. But I don't think that is the issues (->Valar Morghulis), the issue is there are no other characters that "replace" them. Star Wars has always been a 3v1 fight. The OT featured Han, Luke, and Leia vs Darth Vader. In the PT there were Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme vs Darth Sidious. In this ... there are Rey vs Kylo, none other character has a real story arc.


    In the book "Leia, Princess of Alderaan" the Holdo's characters was very different.

    Which to me seems way more interest that the characters potrayed by Laura Dern.


    The "Mary Sue" trope is an unfair argument for me. Rey is not perfect, but is better that anyone else in the movie (especially Finn and Poe) and that make everyone else kind of pointless from a marrative point-of-view.

    [​IMG]
    I think that it's because dark character are cooler???
    (dark)(vicious)(emperor)
    But even if is true, there should be a reason to go dark. There are no valuable reason in the story of ST for Rey to go dark, she doesn't seek power and she doesn't seems attach to anyone, no Finn or Kylo (no matter how much Reylo fan hopes for that). on the other hand, Kylo has many reasons to goDark. I don't like Kylo's arc of redemption. I wish they would throw away all of Palpatine's comeback and make Kylo Ren the ultimate villain in ROTS to show that if you go complete Dark Side nothing and no one can save you (a tragic, but more meaningful story)


    KUDOS to take the effort for share your creative idea!!!
    I wish more people used this discussion in this way.

    It's much more enjoyable to read new ideas than the usual complaints (but it's human nature to be destructive, so am I sometimes).
    I don't know if this was the initial intent, but I really appreciate that you did it.

    [​IMG]
    This is basically what I'm doing in the rewriting of the ST.
    The movie end with Rey who found a "Bendu" academy.
    The camera pan out: we see Luke's ghost saying: "Finally, Balance" and disappear.
     
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  13. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Interesting how the Sith mention the 'breaking of chains'...as if they were once the prisoners

    Sith - anger
    Jedi - emotionless
    Grey Jedi - acceptance of our human flaws - in short, the future

    'Darkness rises, and Light to meet it'
    'Light rises and Dark to meet it' = eternal conflict

    The Grey Jedi
    'At last - the balance '= peace

    Abrams and Terrio - you twits
     
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Not to argue, but I have enjoyed every Star Wars ST movie without any attempt to do so.
    I love Solo, and most of the first season of Mando.

    I really don't like Rogue One, and the second season of Mando has only a couple episodes I enjoyed - and the finale with Luke actively bored me.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  15. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Which goes to show that we all have different tastes!
    I loved Rogue 1, Solo, and Mando 1 but I haven't seen the second season purely because I've sworn off Disney and anything they do since they killed off my favourite SW character and for me, destroyed SW forever. Yes, I know it's petty but revenge is sweet.:D

    On the subject of Solo...I really think it deserved better, it's a good movie with great performances.
     
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