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More things to cry @: Han & Luke didn't reconcile

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by FN-3263827, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Indeed well said.
     
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Yeah like Luke being broken, not because the loss of his academy , but because he lost Ben. Han could sense Luke's brokenness and Luke decided not to use the force anymore but Han and Leia urged Luke to never give up for the future and the sake of galaxy's fate and Han and Luke just exchanged that "knowing" look and haven't seen each other since. Han is he one who'd feel more remorse about it than Luke which is why he basically lights up like a Christmas tree when Eyt and Finn mention "Luke Skywalker."
     
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  3. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, you don't know. The entire audience is trapped in JJ's giant mystery box. He thinks this is the best way to tell a story, to leave 100 open strings, none of them explained and your "entertainment" comes from plugging in the gaps with your imagination. JJ believes your imagination and speculation produces a stronger story than actually explaining details.

    Why did Red Riding Hood not recognize the wolf? Why does Grandma live in a dangerous forest full of animals who murder people an impersonate them?

    See? No answers, still a great story.

    Personally, I find JJ's style really lazy, I like lean, fast-moving narrative too, but not at the expense of refusing to explain any details at all, just so you can focus more on explosions, cheap wit and launch yet another chase scene.

    I liked TFA, but don't look for answers in the film, it was specifically tailored to NOT provide answers and lure you into more films, that provide more mystery than actual conclusion to a plot arc.

    In fact, any day now, watch Disney claim Star Wars is an "out going saga" and that Episode IX provides no real conclusion to the current arc at all. Seriously, I think that's how franchise films are going now.
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    yeah, i'm not getting "lights up like a Christmas tree" from this teeth-grinding look of tension:

    Screen Shot 2016-02-03 at 11.07.26 AM.png Screen Shot 2016-02-03 at 11.07.47 AM.png Screen Shot 2016-02-03 at 11.08.02 AM.png

    but like i said, i'm willing to hope that there was no bad blood between them.
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    True maybe I just imagined it...that last still looks like he's sad/confused .
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    well his emotions seem to run the gamut in the span of about 3 seconds, but yeah, it's mostly anger, sadness, regret, pain. none of it looks Christmas-happy.
     
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  7. Darth Nerf-Herder

    Darth Nerf-Herder Rebelscum

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    Sorry, but I just didn't get the feeling that Han holds any animosity at all towards Luke. None. His initial reaction when Rey mentions Luke, from my perspective, appears to be more of shock/reverence given the circumstances. If Han would've been holding any sort of grudge, he would have made it known; in fact he mentions, quite plainly and without distaste, that Luke couldn't save/help Ben/Kylo to Leia and she reminds Han that he's his father, yada yada yada. Ok, as a father, if I felt that my best buddy had failed MY SON, I'd go after him viciously, and my reaction to my wife had she mentioned him would have been an eruption of rage followed by me explaining how I would destroy said best friend. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation, and I respect that, but the way I interpreted the Han felt about Luke was more of a concern and heartbreak that his friend was nowhere to be found.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i don't think anybody has said anything about Han being in a rage against Luke (maybe i missed that?). or wanting revenge?

    my point is that it's not clear whether they ever came to any sort of terms over the fallout. when i say Han is angry, i mean he's angry at what happened (possibly at Luke, but probably more at himself). there's clearly enough self-blame in Han to temper any anger he might have toward anybody else.

    when i say i hope it didn't end badly between them, i just mean that they didn't have a chance to talk about it (that both Luke and Han's son vanished from his life without closure).

    i'm sure we'll find out in viii. just for now, it's very sad to know they will not see each other again alive.
     
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  9. IrisBest

    IrisBest Rebelscum

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    I didn't think there was a lot of animosity there either but I did see more sadness and regret than shock/reverence (though there was some of that too). The way I see it, Han doesn't bear ill will to Luke now but it's possible back when all this tragedy went down and their emotions were more raw he and Luke didn't part on great terms. But it's been many years and Han would have had time to move past any anger he may have had and now there may be some regret he feels at how things went last time he saw Luke.
    I tend to imagine Luke's grief and shame over Ben could have been exacerbated by a big blow up between him and Han (and/or Leia) over what happened and it would have contributed to Luke's decision to exile himself. Things were possibly pretty bad between them considering he didn't even tell anyone where he was going - there were just simple rumors.
     
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  10. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    I just remembered this video I found in Youtube - during that grieving period - of a fan-made video mixing the Bespin actual scene in the movie with a deleted scene. I loved it, but one of my friends told me it was OK they deleted it since it was a cheesy side of Han lol.

     
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  11. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    hang on, i need to get a tissue...

    jeez, are you trying to kill us with this? hahaha

    totally off topic, but watching Adam Driver in other things and then seeing the OT again also made me realize why they cast him as Han's son. the two actors are so similarly dorky. i hope we eventually get to actually see that similarity full-blown in the movie.
     
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  12. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    You know what "dork" means, right? :D as for the video, yes I cried---wait I mean tears up .
     
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  13. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    uh...yeah? awkward. goofy.

    i think that accurately describes social (and acting) characteristics of Harrison Ford and Adam Driver.

    it's not meant in a disparaging way. i'm sure i'm dorky too. hahaha
     
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  14. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I'm a total dork as my nick name is Goofy Gopher and I'll message you to tell you the real meaning :D but yeah Adam Driver is crazy chill and s great range of an actor.
     
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  15. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Agree.
     
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  16. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Except Han's body got burned up in the explosion that converted Starkiller into a new sun.

    I would really like it if Luke and Han had some sort of secret plan that was executed in TFA... It would allow most to feel better about the lack of on screen reconciliation between them if they were actually working together the whole time, and it mitigates against the apparent Luke-was-a-failure theme that so many people disliked about the movie. Yes, much better if Luke has been orchestrating things behind the scenes with Han's help and his death is even more heroic in that way...
     
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  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think Luie being a "failure" is a wish fulfillment by some "fans."
     
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  18. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Who knows he could have survived.
     
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  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i just can't see it playing out that way, but i would be the first to cheer if they somehow managed to pull it off.

    i'm sure nobody wants Han dead, but i think he gave up his life trying to save his son and we're going to have to reconcile ourselves to that eventually.

    Screen Shot 2016-02-04 at 5.51.34 AM.png
     
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  20. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I always try to allow for possibilities, remote as they might seem, and this was one of them.

    Although I do accept Han's passing as likely to be final and meaningful, in the course of Kylo's potential redemption, I had, at the time, constructed a couple of different admittedly remote and elaborate possibilities:

    Possibility # 1. Kylo tricked Snoke, who was likely watching over this, into believing Kylo was allegiant to Snoke by pretending to slay Han fatally. How? By Kylo tapping his energy-related mastery the Force (as he did with Poe's shot at the beginning of the film) to somehow divert or trap the energy or to minimize its impact on his father. But then there was the matter of Han falling afterwards. Levitation and freezing are certainly within Kylo's abilities. And maybe, before catching up with Finn and Rey, Kylo directed Han's body to an escape pod or his command shuttle. I know this is remote, a really long stretch, but this is the same galaxy wherein a halved Darth Maul could return.

    Possibility # 2. Snoke (in the context of a theory he could be Darth Plagueis or at least have comparable resurrection skills) rescues Han and revives him. What?! Imagine if Kylo Ren's "training" entails him having to do what he did on the bridge again and again in front of Snoke until Snoke senses no more sentiment in him.​

    Imagine Ben going to whatever place he has to train and Snoke leads him to an curtained arena.

    Snoke: It is here you shall complete your mastery of the Dark Side of the Force. Or perish.

    Kylo: I will not fail you.

    Snoke (grinning): We shall see about that.

    The curtain drops, and Han Solo is chained to a column (a visual reference calling back to Attack of the Clones).

    Han: Ben?!

    Kylo: Father! You're alive. You're alive!

    [Imagine Kylo's initial expression, seeing his father alive again. Then, in an instant, having to try to suppress his joy and return to Kylo mode.]

    Snoke: You know what must be done.​


    My main idea in Possibility # 2 is Kylo is unexpectedly given a second chance to redeem himself and potentially change his mind to confront Snoke.


    JediMasterRobert
     
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