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More things to cry @: Han & Luke didn't reconcile

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by FN-3263827, Jan 27, 2016.

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  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    just putting on my devil's advocacy hat here. no attack intended.


    to even begin to ascribe this as possible, Kylo Ren would need to be able to maintain at least some modicum of focus. he's a train wreck on that bridge. as someone mentioned, he's so distracted by killing his father he doesn't even stop Chewie from shooting him (which he obviously could have as you just noted above re: Poe). there's also really no time for him to do anything but chase Rey and Finn (we know that's his aim when he sees them up top after being shot). the only reason he catches them is because he knows where they are headed and didn't have to climb down the ladder to hit the ground running.

    i get that Darth Maul came back so "anything's possible" but i seriously hope the ST doesn't pull something so far-fetched. after one too many baths in the Lazarus pit, the DC universe just gets stupid.

    i feel strongly that death needs to be consequential, unfortunately. it is a part of life and people should not fear it. all this talk of resurrections and power of life over death makes me nervous because it can undermine the value of sacrifice and the appreciation of the fragility of life.

    this is just about the most heinous thing anybody could conjure. thanks for making my skin crawl ~ hahaha​
     
    #121 FN-3263827, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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  2. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Thanks for the reply, FN-3263827! If, according to Possibility #1, Kylo was trying to put on a convincing dramatic spectacle before Snoke, then it makes sense.

    But, as I said before, it's really a stretch and therefore unlikely, and it makes sense, most simply, Han likely died in a meaningful and permanent way.

    LOL, yes, that was intended to decisively separate supervillain Snoke from a torn and a somewhat ambivalent Kylo, to test the boundaries of Kylo's morality and commitment to Snoke while also giving Kylo a chance and a reason to choose correctly this time around: to save his father and then try to take down Snoke.

    JediMasterRobert
     
    #122 JediMasterRobert, Feb 4, 2016
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i've read some commentary (and heard it from my own sister) that Kylo Ren is faking the whole "torn apart" thing on the bridge (for one reason or another), but yeah, i don't see anything fake about what happens between him and Han. if he were putting on a show, he could have done it cruelly to be convincing.

    and Ren just isn't that good of an actor one way or another (Driver, yes ~ Ren, no). "He means nothing to me" he says to Snoke and everybody in the galaxy knows he's lying. he just doesn't have enough self-control and, knowing he hates to look weak, the last thing he'd want to show Snoke would be that killing Han is hard.

    and then, of course, i want to wake up and find out it's all a bad dream and Han really just sent a cyborg in his place and Kylo Ren and Luke are in league to bring down Snoke and Lor San Tekka didn't really die and that village massacre didn't really happen and Starkiller base is just an illusion. hahaha
     
    #123 FN-3263827, Feb 4, 2016
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  4. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    I won't really mind if they come up with something like this. We'll see.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---
    We all want that somehow. Lol.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016 ---
    "'Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living, and, above all those who live without love." Sorry, wrong saga again. Or just as they say in Game of Thrones: "Valar Morghulis".
     
    #124 PrincessLeiaCB3, Feb 4, 2016
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    Well I always have hope Han will return, I guess that's what I've been thinking since Anthony Daniel want to spill a few secrets.
    Great post.
     
    #125 Grand Master Galen Marek, Feb 4, 2016
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  6. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Rian Johnson replied to him:

    han solo c3po shut up.jpg
     
    #126 PrincessLeiaCB3, Feb 4, 2016
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  7. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    That photo suddenly reminds me of a line in The Empire Strikes Back from C-3PO...

    ...and here we go with a way distant and virtually unlikely Third Possibility (which I'd wouldn't really mind entertaining if it meant Han could somehow come back):

    (c-3po) "Oooh... they've encased him in carbonite. He should be quite well protected, if he survived..."

    How that works (with a probability near zero): it just so happened they had a carbon-freezing chamber on the Starkiller base, and after Han's fall Kylo wasn't really reeling from the pain, he was just guiding Han carefully down to the chamber, just Force-flipping the switch to it before Chewie got his shot off...

    (chewbacca)

    JediMasterRobert
     
    #127 JediMasterRobert, Feb 4, 2016
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    Wise move I'm glad when a director takes charge of his cast & crew.
     
    #128 Grand Master Galen Marek, Feb 4, 2016
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    looking for a pic to post this morning, i came across this one, obviously created before TFA's release:

    Screen Shot 2016-02-27 at 9.44.44 AM.png

    this still kills me.
     
    #129 FN-3263827, Feb 27, 2016
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  10. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Nnnnnnoooooooooooo!!!
     
    #130 Stormagadon, Feb 27, 2016
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  11. Lobot

    Lobot Rebel Official

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    I'm not saying they should have had "closure" on screen but they've lost any chance of dealing with any pf this onscreen. We didn't need another Death Star, we didn't need ANOTHER X Wing trench run that wasn't nearly as good as the original.

    We needed a scene with Han and Luke and Leia that showed how the bonds of friendship had been blown apart by this one child (who is still younger than we ever saw Han).

    Lucas always talked about how SW is about family. He's kind of right: it's about sons disappointing their fathers.

    Anakin betrays his "father" (don't get me started on ROTS dialogue mistakes) Obi-Wan (& that hippie Qui-Gonby turning to dark side.

    Anakin betrays his *sigh* father, Palpatine when he switches back to good in ROTJ

    Obi-Wan disappointed Qui-Gon when Anakin turned and the Jedi fell. (And for not mentioning him at all in the OT lol)

    Obi-Wan disappointed Yoda by not killing Vader. Twice.

    Luke disappointed his father by not joining him immediately.

    I'm sure Luke feels like he has disappointed his trio of mentors by failing to rebuild the Jedi order.

    In unrelated news, Lucas' dad was a businessman which swore to never become, and swore up and down that he wanted to make films that made no money. Nope, no subtext there c
     
    #131 Lobot, Apr 18, 2016
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    maybe in new hands, despite the fact that Han is dead, they can break this cycle. i mean, ultimately, Luke didn't disappoint his father, he saved him. unfortunately Anakin didn't live to make that relationship anything but symbolic, but perhaps if Luke saves Han's son (and he lives), there can be some healing there.

    i wish we'd had some closure with our OT characters. curiously, it really didn't strike me until i had made this thread, well after i'd first seen the film.
     
    #132 FN-3263827, Apr 18, 2016
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  13. Lobot

    Lobot Rebel Official

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    It's a fun film, and a little of the somber stuff goes a long way.

    Also, JJ produces content. He's not a film maker like Speilberg (sp?) or Zemeckis.

    He can connect plot points (if he's in the mood) but doesn't due character development or subtlety.
     
    #133 Lobot, Apr 18, 2016
  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i dunno ~ i feel like Abrams did some special stuff with the characters in this film ~ partly because of the depth of the tragedy of it.
    i would say we got a much more subtle Han than in the OT (not just the cocky smuggler he always was).
    and his son is pretty complicated any way you look at it; the kid's got major issues, which is a depth of psychology Star Wars hasn't really played with before--not even with Anakin (whose falls was kinda simplified in the PT).
    we'll see what Johnson does with Luke and Leia in the next film; hopefully he adds more depth there as well.
     
    #134 FN-3263827, Apr 18, 2016
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