1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Mr Plinkett Talks About Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by SKB, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,434
    Likes Received:
    32,179
    Trophy Points:
    159,167
    Credits:
    23,660
    Ratings:
    +40,290 / 155 / -97
    They wrote a good war movie. And worked Star Wars into it.
    It turns out, that war is actually pretty neat in the Star Wars universe and they should probably keep it in mind.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    17,116
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,756
    Ratings:
    +21,204 / 61 / -37
    No, I totally agree. But even if it wasn't a good war movie but still a good Star Wars movie, I'd have counted that as a success as well.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Posts:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    Trophy Points:
    5,792
    Credits:
    2,324
    Ratings:
    +2,898 / 6 / -1
    Did anybody think Jyn and Cassian were dull? I think it was more that they were restrained and burying a lot of feelings, whereas characters in the saga films are very dynamic in their emotions and are very expressive. But I found those last few moments where they are looking into each other's eyes and embracing to be pretty powerful. They're certainly less exuberant than Rey and Finn. Maybe that's why people find them bland?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,434
    Likes Received:
    32,179
    Trophy Points:
    159,167
    Credits:
    23,660
    Ratings:
    +40,290 / 155 / -97
    People now seem to struggle with the concept of singular movies. They don't seem to grasp that in two hours, you can't give everyone a major backstory and still have the plot be as intense as this.

    TFA spent most of the movie building it's characters because it has 2 more movies to examine stories more in depth.
    R1 had...2 hours. It needed to be story heavy. So the characters may feel thin but they really aren't.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  5. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Posts:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    Trophy Points:
    5,792
    Credits:
    2,324
    Ratings:
    +2,898 / 6 / -1
    You know, I hadn't thought of that. I can remember their regular review of TFA, and Michael literally said, "It was everything I dreamed it would be." So I wouldn't rule it out that they're like, "I don't like them as much as Rey and Finn, give me more Rey and Finn!"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    140,518
    Trophy Points:
    171,577
    Credits:
    68,055
    Ratings:
    +156,782 / 65 / -7
    one of the things i love about Rogue One is that all of the characters are full-blown adults. TFA is full of children (whom i love dearly--all of them), but our new cast is very young except for Poe (and yes, very impulsive, energetic, grasping). you don't get huge obvious sweeping arcs with Rogue One's characters in part because they are generally stable emotionally mature human beings.

    instead you get subtle shifts: Jyn moving from indifference to sacrifice and Cassian from hard-hearted fanaticism to idealism. it's not as dynamic, but i think if they had drawn the characters more broadly, it would have felt archetypal and maybe even silly.
     
    • Wise Wise x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Darth Daigo

    Darth Daigo Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Posts:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    1,873
    Trophy Points:
    6,417
    Credits:
    4,564
    Ratings:
    +2,813 / 17 / -3
    Mr Plinkett responds to comments

     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  8. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,927
    Trophy Points:
    11,367
    Credits:
    6,466
    Ratings:
    +7,167 / 413 / -290
    Mr Plinkett is correct again.

    Context. If you had never seen a Star Wars film before Rogue One or known who or what the Darth Vader character is, you'd be thinking "Who is the asthmatic guy in the black armour and cape?". Vader is not explained in Rogue One at all, you only know who he is if you've seen the other Star Wars films. It isn't just Vader either. Who is Tarkin? Whats that giant ball thing? What is the Force? Why is that gold robot suddenly talking to that shorter robot for? Why is there a suddenly a princess on that good guys spaceship? Rogue One has been made in a way where Rogue One assumes you've seen Star Wars films before and ignores people who've never seen Star Wars before. Rogue One is a fan film. Simple as.

    New Characters. Rogue One's new characters are shallow, depthless, boring and poorly used. Many people have noticed the boring parts of Rogue One are actually the parts where Rogue One is trying to explain these characters personalities, motivations and back stories. The only exciting or interesting bits of Rogue One are the parts that we've already seen before in other Star Wars films, such as X-Wings, TIE fighters, Death Star, Darth Vader, Tarkin, Leia etc....

    A good response by Mr Plinkett and Red Letter Media.

    ;)

    P.S., The "I hope they make more Rogue One video" Youtube comment sums up this new generation of moronic knuckle-dragging film fans who have only experienced cinema through watching the cancerous DC/Marvel comic book action movies.
     
    #28 SKB, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,352
    Trophy Points:
    91,002
    Credits:
    11,893
    Ratings:
    +13,843 / 149 / -70
    I somewhat agree and disagree.

    For Jyn I thought her interaction with Saw after not seeing him for a long time plus her father's message was pretty emotional and good.

    Also when her father died though it was short.

    I think she came off like she was suppose to. Kinda tough, holding back and not trusting much because of her past. At times, yes she and Cassian seemed dull.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Posts:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    4,556
    Trophy Points:
    11,592
    Credits:
    6,271
    Ratings:
    +5,776 / 13 / -0
    I have no interest in debating his points about the characters, as that's a portion of the film I could see being an issue for some. I got just enough out of the characters for the story being told. Are they as classic and memorable as the ones from the OT? Of course not. However I don't think they were the real focus of the movie, as much as the plight of the Rebellion and the soldiers on the ground were. In essence, characters like Cassian represented the guys on the ground who were dying and getting their hands dirty. As such, I preferred the more subdued way they were handled in the film.

    That doesn't mean that they couldn't have done a better job on explaining certain things though. Additionally, it probably wouldn't have hurt to give Jyn in particular a more distinct personality. I liked her and understood her character fine, but she definitely isn't the most interesting lead at points.

    As for his points on context though. I could care less about that and view it more as a nitpick. No, we didn't need even a few lines in this movie explaining what the force is. The Force is such an embedded part of pop culture, that even people who don't know much about Star Wars understand the basics of it. There is no reason that every Star Wars film from here to the end of time needs some lines of expository dialogue to explain what the Force is. Nor do we need an introduction to Vader, the one we get in the movie is just fine. As for Tarkin, all the audience needs to know is that he is a rival engaged in power plays with Krennic.

    What we may have needed instead were explanations for other things in the story. Maybe more on Galen and Krennic's relationship, etc. Things, that in all honesty, probably could have been taken care of in a crawl.

    All in all, I still enjoyed the video, as it is always interesting to see other points of view and to see people give clear cut reasons for why they did or didn't like things. I also cracked up at his reading of the comments word for misspelled word. I see no reason to get all worked up if someone dislikes something I like. If they bring up certain points that I disagree with, then sure, I'll point that out, but it's still nothing to get overly worked up about.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  11. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,802
    Ratings:
    +2,489 / 69 / -31
    Wow, looks like he got trolled bad. I haven't watched this one and likely ever will, because I already know whats in it.
    First, he will tell everyone they're wrong.
    Second, he will have the the most hypocritical butt-&^#&*$ logic to support it.
    After all, so far we've gotten that ring theory supports TFA (LMFAO) and that the prequels are just mishmash of OT films but are later cr edited by him as being original (WTF!?) Then we get a hypothetical about R1 that makes Empire look like crap. Man in Halloween costume who takes orders from a giant ghost head tortures a bunch of people to lure a guy into a sword fight. After maiming the guy, he tells him he's his father and wants him to rule the world with him. The guy says no and he just let's him walk away. Some pvc puppet preaches mysticism along the way.

    I think everyone here needs to ask themselves why it took 10 months for a response to TFA and 10 days for R1.
     
    #31 Talon Karrde, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,927
    Trophy Points:
    11,367
    Credits:
    6,466
    Ratings:
    +7,167 / 413 / -290
    The phrase is actually "I couldn't care less".

    Explanation:



    ;)
     
    #32 SKB, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
    • Off Topic Off Topic x 1
  13. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Posts:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    4,556
    Trophy Points:
    11,592
    Credits:
    6,271
    Ratings:
    +5,776 / 13 / -0
    Hey now grammar Nazi ;). Some of use mobile devices with annoying auto correct features.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  14. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,802
    Ratings:
    +2,489 / 69 / -31
    No, he's not correct. "Context" is crap; no film exists in a bubble. None. And no one in their right mind introduces Star Wars to someone with Episode I.
    The characters are simple enough to pick up fast for a one shot film. No one in their right mind is going to invest heavily in characters that they want to see die in the end. A good example of this would be Aliens. Vasquez and Hudson certainly left their mark, but do we really emotionally invest in Lt Gorman, who died with Vasquez? Nope. It's the nature of these kinds of films. It's not a lighthearted romp through the galaxy. But they are all used superbly.. no one feels like dead weight or fifth wheels.. not even Bodie. Everyone is where they need to be to make this story work.
    Also, neither you nor RLM is impressing me with this silly 'fan film' argument. The customer is always right, and the customer wants X-wings and AT-ATs. And just where is Star Wars going to move to, exactly? Should we put the star destroyer at red alert? What is the endgame here? What is the great reward for not giving an audience what they want? Because I think you're asking LFL to produce the following movie:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  15. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,292
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,602
    Ratings:
    +19,239 / 799 / -292
    Yeah, he's spot on.
    It was a non-film for me and would've worked better as an 8 part live action TV series.
    The characters needed expanding. The story was lacking, especially the end which was more of a advert to watch ANH. And the whole context of the movie required Lucas' films to give it meaning rather than actually presenting us with anything new and interesting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  16. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,352
    Trophy Points:
    91,002
    Credits:
    11,893
    Ratings:
    +13,843 / 149 / -70
    There is something called Google...research. Mr. Plinkett is silly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Posts:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,788
    Ratings:
    +1,875 / 74 / -32
    I used to really like Plinkett, but he's just off the road recently. He's trying so hard to replicate his legendary prequel reviews, but he's really having a hard time, as R1 clearly does not even remotely come close being such a great material as the cinematic abyss called the PT.

    Why would they hire Tony Gilroy from the Bourne films for softening down a gritty movie?

    Seriously... Is it even possible to make this movie any darker or grittier? This claim is just simply wrong. Not even up to debate or "subjective".
    Edwards already explained why they did the reshoots. They had problems with the cinematography and pacing of (mostly) the action scenes, as those are particularly hard to film, and Edwards hates action scnenes. And that came out to be completely true.
    There isnt a single scene which is out of tone or context like in Suicide Squad (a movie which was clearly toned down and altered in the last minute).

    Anyone with minimum insight to filmmaking (or common sense) should be aware that its physically impossible to reshoot 40% of a major 200m budget blockbuster just a couple months before release.
    This is the forced argument I was talking about. Im not saying he's wrong, but noone ever was expecting them to retell SW in a spinoff movie. Plus, the backtracks in sequels usually annoy me very much. We are aware of the context, thank you (if you are not, watch the rest instead of complaining about not beeing spoonfed about everything). Stop wasting the time. Watch the rest of the story maybe instead of complaining. Besides, this is the kind of lore which needed no further context. Rebels, Empire, plan, superweapon. They explain all which is necessary and dont waste the time.
    Also, does Darth Vader, friggin DARTH VADER need any context, really? I doubt there is anyone in the western world who isnt aware of Vader's character to a certain degree...
    Vague and broad arguments. Some would say Tarkovsky's Stalker is the boringest movie ever made, some would say its one of the best. Neither is right neither is wrong. This is where subjectivity comes in.
    Besides, Star Wars was never known by its deep characters or story. Its a fairy tale set in space with stereotypical characters.
    And I'd say Jyn Erso had more depth than Luke in ANH. And so did Cassian Andor over Han in ANH. There, I said it. Feel free to dislike.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    140,518
    Trophy Points:
    171,577
    Credits:
    68,055
    Ratings:
    +156,782 / 65 / -7
    i love tarkovsky!

    i think plinkett missed the boat on this one.
    R1 has some problems, sure, but it's in no way the failure that he describes.
    the contextual aspects of his complaints are nitpicky. i agree: the Force, Darth Vader, these things are part of the culture.
    it's why we don't need to see Bruce Wayne's parents get shot in an alley ever again, Warner/DC. jeez.

    he makes a few good points, but he clearly just didn't engage with the film and unfortunately it feels like that's clouding his analysis.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  19. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Posts:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,788
    Ratings:
    +1,875 / 74 / -32
    Thank you, at least someone with common sense!
    The BvS example is perfect. We certainly did not need to see the Batman's parents scene for the 55th time... Plus, I think it wasnt well done. Over the top and takes itself way-way too seriously (just like the rest of the movie). I liked Nolan's version much better. Thomas was trying to talk himself out, as any smart man would. Snyder's was just trying to beat the guy with a gun pointed at him in the most Snyder-y way possible (slow-mo, montage and close ups), thus endagering his entire family. Style over substance.

    I dont know if Plinkett has brought this up in his TFA review (as I havent seen it), but TFA on the other hand really needed more context imo, as its a completely new environment with new lore. The Hosnian -system and its attack, the FO and the the Resistance needed some political-social explanation. Hopefully they'll provide it in the next episode.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,802
    Ratings:
    +2,489 / 69 / -31
    I'd like to address this second issue on this thread: the reshoots. I've said it in prior posts and I'll say it here again.. I have seen ZERO evidence of a tonal shift to the movie. The lack of the "creepy x-files music" in teaser 1 doesn't suddenly make this a family film.
    What I DO think they significantly altered in the reshoots was Jyn Erso. And to extension: her role in the third act. And i think a lot of it was based on 'feedback' they got on Rey. Here's my theorycraft:
    Our intro to Jyn is reshoots. Originally she's just brought in with exposition dialogue and meets K2 at Yavin. Now she meets K2 like a feisty luchadore meets The Big Show. "Negative consequence" for her jailbreak. You'll also notice the more abrasive dialogue has been removed. She seems more "Vivian James" than "Mary Sue" now. Also I detected a slight pullback of her accent. What does remain of old Jyn is the Jedda action scene.. Where we get the rediculousness of Andor gawking Jyn kicking ass.
    Obviously Saw is a reshoot; But beyond Rogaine changes were that Jyn does aquire a physical copy of Galen's message.. I know this from a photo in US weekly showing a projection of the death star at the Alliance council meeting..again another "negative consequence" is inserted. And of course the third act is changed so that she's half blown up on the platform.
    But that's not all. The "trust" subplot is also an insertion. All the promo material for this movie gives Jyn a prominent size compared to the others.. But I walked away feeling that Captain Andor was the Male co-lead of this movie. Indeed the evidence indicates that his role was upgraded significantly. Most of Andor's character development occurs away from other key actors or in scenes we already know we're reshot. Act 3 is the most telling. Clips and set photos show that the infiltration has Jyn going into the vault to retrieve the plans alone. Now Jyn and Cassian go into the vault together, and the vault scene and set is remade so they can be seen aquiring the plans together. And of course, that leads to the final confrontation. We currently have little idea how that went down, but what we do see is our new male co-lead rescuing our female lead. We also see that he does not kill Krennic; indications of a changed character who starts the movie shooting his own informant in the back.
    So, that's what I am seeing with reshoots aside from obvious continuity busting character inserts.. they felt that it was not a good idea to wait until 2018 to bring out a male lead. And IYRC the rewrite of The Ocho was done to give Finn and Poe more prominent roles in that movie.
     
    #40 Talon Karrde, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page