New concept of the Force.

Well I tend to view things that change the nature of the Force as heretical to Lucas ' vision. That's not to say there can't be other sects or divergent views but that can't undo Lucas.

Your analogy is apt. Lucas spoke of the Dark Side as imbalance because how it uses the force. Because it flows from selfishness and hate it destroys. Where as the Jedi recognized the connections the symbiosis. Hence the dark side creates imbalnce by wrecking the system. Like over consumption destroys environments, selfishness ruins relationships, greed destroys economies. So you river analogy works because there use and control of the force disrupts the system to control it.

He's been moving rock since ESB.

 

I would rather the franchise stayed away from a "conscious Force" or "will of the Force". I feel it robs the characters of agency and lowers the stakes.

 

I just hope they don't over explain the force... there is some mystery to it that I find appealing.

 

Is that pic of Luke legit?

 

To me this is the value of the PT. Nowhere in the OT do you get the sense that there is anything wrong with the Jedi philosophy it is the Sith philosophy that is the problem, it is clear cut and that point is punctuated with Luke's refusal to submit to the Darkside. It is a simple binary.

However people (and presumably other life forms) are more complicated than just simple good and evil and I think that is what they attempted to illustrate in the PT.
That it was much more nuanced than simply one party being good and another evil so that we need not consider their viewpoint or re-examine our own. Neither passion or compassion is inherently evil but one of these attributes is associated with the Sith (passion) and one with the Jedi (compassion). Neither strength nor calm is inherently evil but one of these attributes is associated with the Sith (strength) and one with the Jedi (calm). I say this to say, maybe there really is no true dark or light side of the force, just dark and light applications of the same force.

Where I think they may be going with this is there is Force Usage, Force Intent, and Force Outcome, and I think it's the latter 2 that cause imbalance. I don't think (for example) Jedi using Force Lightning should cause imbalance (even though they traditionally don't use it) or even be seen as the Dark Side. It is just a usage of the Force. What makes something dark or light is the intent with which you use it, and the outcome.

This approach allows for the possibility that even Jedi could cause imbalance without actually intending harm and without requiring us to say that compassion and calm and rejection of fear are now evil things. The Force is just more complicated than what we originally knew. At least that's my theory for right now until we see what TLJ makes canon.

 

I agree with you completely, I also think that's where the movie is headed, and the logical step to take next.

But, I don't want them to dwell to much on it, if they explain it "midi-chlorian style"( I'm not a big fan of it) , even if it's in a more credible way (imo), I won't like it. To me what makes the force so special it's the magic behind it, and like all magic tricks, it will loose its fascinating side if you know all that goes behind it.

 

@Rayjefury , I have felt the same way and couldn't agree more. The force is just the force. "Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.".. The light and dark are in the user and their intentions. Whether you force lightning or a lightsaber to defend yourself or others, the use of the force is the same. The difference lies in the intent and the outcome.

 

They abandoned the Sith, we don't know if they are abandoning the Jedi yet.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2017 ---

The force isn't netrual though. The dark side of the force itself was present in the Jedi Temple and would weaken the Jedi inside of it.

 

Thats why I said - we don't know yet -

 

The Force would never be fully explained because that would mean choosing a specific "real world" philosophy as a foundation for explaining it, which makes it lose it's universal appeal.

 

So do yo think we will see Luke use force lightning?

 

Meh its a mystical force that permeates the universe that certain people with training can tap into that is all you really need to know to my mind.

But yes I dont think the force is good or evil it simply just is like Gravity

 

But how its used effects its balance or harmony. Actions born of hate, or selfish consumption effect the Cosmic Force pulling it out of Balance.

 

Reminds me of Final Fantasy VIII now that I think about it.

 

I agree 100%. Not only would that take away the freedom of the characters, but in this scenario the force is responsible for all the atrocities committed in the SW universe. That's unacceptable.

 

Your whole post kind of explains exactly why people don't like this. (Also where does that Darth Plagueis teaching come from?)

People are free to choose but if they choose the right action (essentially what the Force wants to happen) then they are guaranteed to succeed because they have the backing of the universe's "god". It lowers the stakes. As tantalising as the question of who would win in biblical conflict of Satan vs God.