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SPECULATION Not The Last "Jedi"

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by Trevor, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Now I know that this subject has beaten to death in some rooms, but one needs to consider all aspects of the statement and reality of one being “The Last Jedi”.

    For those of you that didn’t return to the forum list after reading the opening line, here are some things that you need to think about:

    1. When we hear Ben and Yoda discussing how Luke was their last hope, and that he was the “last of the Jedi”, did you ever ask yourself HOW they apparently just “knew” that?? There’s no way that they could’ve, and it really just can’t be explained away as hard as some may try.


    Considering that there were about 10,000 Jedi at the time of Order 66 all over the GFFA, nobody can tell me that they were caught that flat-footed to be wiped out….and easily hunted down afterwards and all killed, but just Yoda and Kenobi ultimately escaped and lived out their lives?? They were the "JEDI", so...Nah

    The GFFA is an awfully big place, and (IMO) you’d honestly have to be a fool to believe that out of 10k Jedi (spread all over the Galaxy), that at least some of them (with their Padawans, if they had one) didn’t just slip away into the darkness kind of like Kanan and Ezra should be doing in Rebels…who ARE going to get caught because they just can’t quit the fight and hide like the rest.


    2. The term “Jedi” is plainly objective, and we will use Ahsoka Tano as an example; Ahsoka wanted to “be a Jedi”, as it is an occupation, but when she had lost faith in the Order, she walked away ceasing to be a Jedi…which should be simple to understand but…


    Some will argue (and will probably here also) that “once you’re a Jedi, you’re always a Jedi” which is simply not true, because remember, BEING a Jedi is (again) an occupation in which one was trained in the Jedi ways to become as such, because I, 30 years ago, was trained to be a breakfast cook, but since then have become an Engineer and in NO way am I any kind of (or claim to be) a breakfast cook now…just because I can flip an egg without breaking the yoke. :)


    Getting closer to the Jedi occupation; There are Priests here on Earth (or Rabbi’s or Deacons, or whatever you choose) that lose their faith in their own religions every day and walk away, but just because they were trained as Holy Men does not make them as such if they’ve gone on to do something else, or just simply disagree with the teachings…then they are no more…like those that leave the Jedi Order. They may have been trained and have the abilities of a Jedi Master (and perhaps WERE) but if they are now farmers, they are not Jedi…just “really good Force-users that own a plow.”


    Moving on from this, I’ve always (since the 80’s) felt like the fact that the Empire “just killed all of them” is entirely too easy, and in fact is convenient (if not sloppy) storytelling, and to me is THE biggest plot hole in the franchise due to its ridiculousness.


    I was always hopeful that LFL would eventually come clean and admit that the term “Jedi” could also be meant as plural or an objective term referring to one that holds that occupation, when being conveyed as of late, but in thinking about it, I like to think that eventually they’ll introduce “Former” Jedi in some of their stories while using the above as technicalities to justify “why and how” they exist which is simple….they used to be Jedi, but are no longer.


    Think of being a Jedi as an occupation…because it is. Once you walk away and become a farmer, you’re no longer a Jedi.


    I’m hoping for a reveal in the future that there are more out there that we get to know.
     
    #1 Trevor, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  2. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    We still don't know exactly what powers a Jedi with such a high age as Yoda had, but already in ESB he stated that he had watched Luke (from the distance) and I always took that as a hint he might have watched others as well, had there been any left.

    Of course the idea was that Luke would train Leia and others ("Pass on what you have learned") but after Yoda had gone, Luke was the last Jedi left at this point in time.

    If that's the message Lucas and/or Kasdan wanted to convey (of which I'm certain) then there's no good reson, IMHO, to bring that into question.

    Well, the Force was with them during Order 66. But consider this (from ROTS):

    OBI-WAN: Have we had any contact from the Temple?

    YODA: Received a coded retreat message, we have.

    BAIL ORGANA: It requests all Jedi to return to the Temple. It says that the war is over . . .

    OBI-WAN: Well, then we must go back! If there are other stragglers, they will fall into the trap and be killed.

    BAIL ORGANA: It's too dangerous to return.

    YODA: Suggest dismantling the coded signal, do you?

    OBI-WAN: Yes, Master. There is too much at stake here, and we need a clearer picture of what has happened.


    I think both realize they can dismantle the signal, but they must be aware that their sabotage will be discovered and counter-measures will be seized. Hence their prime motivation to go back becomes to figure out what actually happened.

    OBI-WAN: I've recalibrated the code warning all surviving Jedi to stay away.

    YODA: Good . . . For the Clones to discover the recalibration, a long time it will take. To change it back, longer still. Hurry.


    Not a great scriptwriting moment, IMHO. Yoda really assumes that Palpatine hasn't commissioned someone to monitor the outgoing transmissions? And once they discover the change, they can and simply will pull the plug. And can you receive transmissions in hyperspace?
    Based on the recall signal many Jedi in hyperspace might not be aware of the altered signal / warning.

    Most Jedi were probably with the clones and dead by the thousands minutes after Order 66 had been issued. In a few cases some Jedi might not have been with the troops, but the temple records probably indicated where they had been sent. Ultimately they were hunted down.

    I'm afraid it's not that easy because it ultimately and exclusively comes down to the simple question whom Yoda regarded to be a Jedi (i.e. padawan, knight or master).

    If Yoda viewed Ahsoka Tano to still be a Jedi, regardless of what she did, then she, too, must be dead by the time of ROJ.
     
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