SPOILER Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep. 1-2 Discussion

Done

 

If Obi-Wan Kenobi has not communed with Qui-Gon ten years later, he does not know that force ghosts and immortality are possible. How could he confidently tell Darth Vader that if he strikes him down, he'll become more powerful, and then sacrifice his life willingly, if he has not seen Qui-Gon? This means he must see or hear Qui-Gon in this show. I say Liam Neeson will show up.

 

It would be pretty weird if he was willing to come back to voice the character for an animated Disney+ project, but not for this massively high profile live action one.

 

Yeah, given his attempt in the first episode, I'm assuming this will be part of his arc.

Which honestly, I kinda like. Letting us see that moment, tying it to likely one of the biggest emotional journeys Kenobi probably has between the prequels and OT, could be a very good call.

Plus, it allows us to witness their reunion, rather than simply show them having re-established a connection years ago. Lots of emotional potential there.

Thanks!

 

Well that fits perfectly with my theory. Beru who has focused all her mother's-love on Luke, has finally realized that it is futile to hold Luke on the farm for much longer. Owen on the other hand, still tries to hold on to the notion of Luke taking over the farrm... and this is in ANH!
So Owen's stubborn defiance in OB1 KnoB is logical at this point.

The best of fiction's inspiration often comes from true life experience.

Well... he does know, because Yoda told him in RotS he had "training" for him. And that this training was about communing with his old Master.
Though OB1's loss of Faith and confidence has probably hindered him greatly in his efforts to contact Qui Gon.

Indeed it is obvious that between this moment n the series and the start of ANH old Ben has succeeded! I really do hope we get to see it.
Maybe just a voice in his head this season and perhaps a physical apparition in the rumored 2nd season?

 

Potentially, it could be a handy way to demonstrate OB1 having overcome his emotional roadblocks. That maybe he couldn’t commune with Qui-Gon because of his existing trauma. Making progress with that, puts him closer to forming that connection and makes it all relevant to the story.

 

It wouldn't be too strange if he said I'll do it for $20million. They should pay him 20 mill if he calls Reva on the space phone and says he has a very particular set of skills that he has developed over a long career.

 

I tend to think Obi-wan can't connect with Qui-Gon because he isn't reaching out with the force.

I don't think he has formally cut himself off but he is not tapping into it at all and has dulled the connection to the point of effectively not existing and Qui-Gon is one with the force so he is waiting for the force to meet him 99.9% of the way.

 

It's not that Obi-Wan is incompetent at this point in the story, and any incompetence on his part isn't what I'm annoyed about. He's clearly capable of fighting without his lightsaber or in traditional Jedi fashion and is clearly capable of quick improvising - the second episode had Kenobi demonstrate both when dealing with the smugglers and the fake Jedi. Heck, I was HAPPY he wasn't using his lightsaber, as I felt like it forced Obi-Wan out of his comfort zone and would force him to develop new skills in the short time we have together. But that leads to the problem - I wanted to see that version of Kenobi escape the Inquisitors, not the one who escapes because the Grand Inquisitor was selfish and because of the incompetence of our villains.
But if the show was going to go down that avenue, I think there was a smarter way to do so: have Kenobi goad the Inquisitors, manipulate them against each other with his usual wit and playing on their weakness. The Inquisitors and Jedi are playing this game of "I know you know I know," so why not have our hero use that to his advantage when he's smart enough to do so and already outed in a way? (And then drop the knowledge bomb that Kenobi doesn't know, but by that point the Grand Inquisitor is fighting Third Sister due to Kenobi's goading, so she can't capitalize on it.)
Early episodes are some of the hardest episodes in a show's run. They're early enough for things to change for the better later on, and that's usually the case; but the also can give tells and double down on bad habits. (Granted, that usually occurs in later seasons, but some of those things can be traced back to the first few episodes.)

 

You should care about policies.

A character's "policies" are their stated intentions, or the ones associated with their job, mission or vocation. Their state of mind can be determined partly by how consistent they are at fulfilling their stated intentions. Or how consistent their stated intentions are with the things we see them actually doing. For example if Vader says "He will join us, or die." and yet Luke refuses and Vader cannot bring himself to destroy him. Or when the Jedi claim they are not warriors and don't fight wars, wind up leading armies into war. Or when Han Solo claims to never stick his neck out for anyone else, but always does.

We know that Jedi train younglings (ideally) to become Jedi. We know that Kenobi intends to train Luke to be a Jedi. But now we also know that Kenobi tells other Jedi to give up being a Jedi. There's a contradiction that gives an indication of Kenobi's state of mind.

Owen does not want Luke to turn out like his father. Obi Wan trained Anakin to be a Jedi. Anakin then turned to the dark side and a lot of people died, including Anakin (as far as they know) and his wife. The outside world did not kill Anakin. Obi Wan killed Anakin (as far as they know) because he turned to the dark side. Owen does not want THAT to happen again.

Obi Wan does have a counterargument if, as you theorise, that Kenobi does NOT intend to train Luke to become a Jedi like his father. Literally the perfect counter argument "No Owen, Not trained as a Jedi. And NOT like his father!". He doesn't have a counterargument if his intent IS to train Luke to become a Jedi, which Owen correctly pointed out was disastrous for Anakin.

We know that Obi Wan considers himself a failure with training Anakin. But he's still adamant about training Anakin's son. I am not seeing an arc that you are suggesting begins with Obi Wan reluctant to train Luke due to his failure with Anakin. We see Kenobi's "arc" in this series beginning with him reminding Owen that it is his intent to train Luke to be a Jedi when the time comes. And Owen rejecting that idea because of past results with Luke's father.

So, we have to wonder about Obi Wan's state of mind in the context of what his stated intentions are about Luke being trained to be a Jedi like his father, and his contradictory advice to other Jedi that the time of Jedi is over and that there is no more fight. He doesn't even consider himself a Jedi any more. He's not the man he was. He buried his lightsaber out in the desert, he was so sure that the Jedi were no more. So why train Luke to be a Jedi if he believes the Jedi are no more?

Perhaps because he rationally accepts the hopelessness of the Jedi situation. But he has an attachment to his old friend's son. And an attachment to the old friend he killed (or who killed himself, as Kenobi sees it). An attachment even to his old master's faith in the fulfillment of a prophesy.

 

Ouf Episode 3 has a lot to talk.
And some controversy for sure.
As soon as I can I will talk about it in the proper thread.

 

So will Luke at the end not only get The T-16 toy or might Obi-Wan get into a situation where he ends up dropping the real T-16 at Lukes backyard.

 

The reason is called Beru

 

But do we though? Or are you simply making an inference? Where does anyone state this?

But does Owen know this? Or are you simply making an inference? Where does anyone state this?

Again, you’re making an inference that Owen knows or cares enough to make that distinction.

Except he never says his intent is to train Luke to be a Jedi and go fight anyone. You’re making that inference.

Look, I’m not trying to convince you that you’re looking at it wrong. I’m trying to encourage you to rethink what you think you “know”. Maybe, just maybe, you’ve assumed too much and become convinced of a certainty that’s still very much undefined.

Open your mind to the possibilities of the situation and don't cut off potentialities because of perceived limitations that really only exist in you mind.

 

What do Jedi train younglings to be?

 

I thought of that exact same scene! Love that movie.

 

Whatever is appropriate to the story being told.

 

Can you provide a few different examples for precedent of this liquid definition?

What is the story being told here, incidentally? I can only assume you know because you've already decided that what Kenobi means by training (not to be a Jedi) is appropriate for that story.