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SPOILER Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep. 3 Discussion

Discussion in 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' started by Angelman, Jun 1, 2022.

  1. Hmm

    Hmm Guest

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    Fairytales premises are like death. You know its there, you are governed by it, you really (really) don't like it, understand it or agree with it, but it does not define how you enjoy the fairytale called life.

    Yes, you can talk about death. Its a valid thing to do. But if you spend your whole life discussing death then why live it ? Can anything be gained by discussing about death from times to times ? Yes, enjoy life more.

    So, yes, discussing complaints about the show is logical, but in the context of enjoying the show more, much like having a challenging philosophical discussion about death while having a glass of wine enjoying the evening. I don't understand anything beyond that because it simple seems counter-productive to me. That's all :)
     
  2. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    It's a sense of catharsis, of seeing and being seen. Of hearing and being heard. Of letting the words explain your reasoning in a way a conversation may not get across, the good and the bad. We can celebrate life, should we not talk about its counterpart and how that affects us either? Or should be we keep it behind closed doors, acting like everything is fine, until it eats us up?

    So to with criticisms and complaints. We need a space to air them healthily to talk to others and share our grievances. Sometimes they're understood and we move on. Sometimes through talking with others about what we didn't like, a new perspective comes up that changes our views. Sometimes no conclusion is reached and we end up going down a spiral of pointless and circuitous conversations until the next big thing comes out...

    The conversations here aren't just about enjoying the show, or else we'd have a thread about "what do you enjoy about this show?" (Which, as we all know from the TLJ threads, is a bad idea.) This is a discussion page, which means that both discussing the good and the bad is allowed. We discuss what we like, what we disliked, what we hope, what we fear, and how it all makes us feel with others. So long as there's respect for the people on the other side of the screen in our actions and words, I don't see the problem with discussing what we didn't like in the community space for it.

    Now, as a person, I get how much of a strain it can be, and I definitely understand the urge to avoid it. I personally have to limit myself on certain points of discussion just so I can enjoy things at times. But that wouldn't mean I would limit the talk about criticism, simply my own personal involvement in it.

    EDIT: Just like those who are obsessed with death, there are those who love to simply tear things down for the sake of tearing them down and breaking them. People who find hate more fun and enticing than love. I'm not saying that this is the case here, or that anyone here is like that.
     
    #142 Use the Falchion, Jun 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
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  3. Darth Derringer

    Darth Derringer Rebel Official

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    I was speaking of fan reactions in general but I agree with you that harassing actors and being a cyberbully is wrong, period.

    But I would argue that people harassing Kelly Marie Tran for her role in TLJ or Moses Ingram for her role in Obi-wan Kenobi is really about internet bullies showing their true colors -- which, I might add, has zero to do with Star Wars. SW is just the convenient prop they choose to hide behind.

    This board is all about expressing your opinions -- whether you're liking or disliking a show. But for the sake of stimulating an interesting and entertaining discussion, it's helpful to others to know WHY posters feel the way they do. Without any context, criticisms come off sounding like troll posts.

    Yeah, that's a good point. I tend to cater to the OT and Favroniverse of SW storytelling but it's true that we're seeing more SW content like Rogue One and Obi-Wan Kenobi (and, I'm assuming, Andor) that's taking a more mature slant on the GFFA. So I'll try to avoid my "its a kids' fantasy tale" line in the future when talking about this brand of SW show.
     
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  4. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I agree, but there's the problem that this has been a consistent thing for decades at this point. We had this problem with Jar Jar's actor and Kid Anakin's actor in TLJ, Hayden wasn't really free of it (but wasn't subject to the same degree) for his role as Anakin. Ahsoka's VA was warned about the hatred she'd receive when she first started to play Ahsoka, and then it came back in full force for the ST and beyond. I agree with you when you talk about this being a product of social media, but to me, it's also so deeply, so bitterly intertwined with Star Wars that it's not something we can easily excuse either.

    I also completely agree! But if someone says "I didn't like A, B, or C, and D isn't doing it for me either (but I did like Z)" then that's acceptable because now we have a frame of reference for the reasoning. Certainly not preferred as it doesn't completely explain or help the conversation, but acceptable. Heck, we can get the ball rolling by asking why if the other person doesn't bring it up, and making sure we note that we're genuinely interested, not accusatorial if we can.
    On our end we also have to be careful that when someone DOES explain why they feel the way they do, we don't lock them up into boxes of "uh, you're weird" or "you're wrong and here's why." We can say "yeah, I get that, but this is how I feel/saw/perceived/experienced this thing. Maybe that helps," but if we say "uh, no, that's now how it is," then I think we invalidate everything the other person says. (This is something that, even after nearly seven years on this forum, I still struggle with, and I doubt I'm the only one.)

    Either way, I think we're probably taking this a little off topic lol, and I have to go. @Darth Derringer pleasure as always, and May the Force Be With You!
     
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  5. Sheddai_Lightkeeper

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    ^^^ How much of that do you think is generated by the company? Outrage marketing? Triggering the inner moral authoritarian of the masses, creating controversy and division, stirring emotions, and getting free publicity? Sith mind tricks.
    Bottom line for any giant corporation is money. They're not all touchy feely on the inside. If they were exploiting these issues for their own gain, that would be quite a different point of view. I never thought about Reva's race, and so on until they brought it up in the mass media.
     
    #145 Sheddai_Lightkeeper, Jun 4, 2022
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  6. Hmm

    Hmm Guest

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    My sand, your sand, our hourglasses; one gets to do with his/hers hourglass want one wants. Not saying what anyone else should, or not, do. Yeah, you can talk all you want about something you didn't like. I for one don't like discussing in length about a burger that sucked; I had to work to get the money to buy it, then wait to get it, and then went through eating it while it sucked. I don't see the point in spending even more time about it though I will say to a friend over a brief conv: Man, that burger really sucked. That's just me. Others would go on and on about that burger. I just find it strange and always ask the same thing I asked here: What's the problem :)

    But yeah its going off topic. Sorry :(
     
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  7. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I guess I am not watching the same series. As far as Disney SW I put this near the bottom, IMO.
     
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  8. Hmm

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    Now, a question, which is actually on topic :) I thought that Vader is always standing for two reasons; the imposing figure that creates dread, and the fact that sitting/kneeling created intense pain to his joints. My tired and old brain cannot pinpoint which book/comic had this detail pointed out; he was kneeling to Palp, and it was mentioned.

    I'am posting this here because him sitting on the throne seemed strange. I don't recall ever seeing him sitting. Anyone with info on this ?
     
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  9. Darth Derringer

    Darth Derringer Rebel Official

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    Yeah, I hear ya. :)

    That said, the one thing that I've found that strikes me as a bit odd is that on some of the forums here, we're asked to suspend reality and act as though we don't have quantifiable measures (you know, stuff like worldwide box office. Nielsen Ratings, etc.) for determining the public's response to various SW content. Seems like it should be fine as long as we note our sources. If some folks want to ignore reality, that's their right as with anything here. But their mindset shouldn't hamper my ability to explain myself using whatever subjective -- or quantifiable -- measures I choose.

    LOL. True but this discussion has been interesting. May the Force Be With You too!
     
  10. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    Yeah. Speaking of that…..for me, the score is what makes SW special. But IMO, the last two Disney TV series have not followed that. And it makes me sad.
     
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  11. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic Luminous Being
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    Off the top of my head......he sits in his TIE fighter. He sits in his meditation chamber, and at the banquet table on Cloud City(in TESB). Also, if I had to guess, I'd say he probably sits when using the restroom, at least half the time anyway. :D
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 5, 2022 ---
    I actually like The Mando theme. Kind of catchy IMO.
     
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  12. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    yes, I am not counting mando as part of the last 2 series. Mando theme was great.
     
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  13. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebel Official

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    yeah, I totally get that. It was hard to watch. I think..like Rogue One gave us “Vader is so BA! Look at him just tear through things.” And this feels very “this is a terrible guy now doing terrible things. You’re going to see the terrible things. He is a monster.” It worked, but man that was rough and terrifying.

    It kinda reminded me of the one story about him in Myths and Fables, where (spoilering out of courtesy for those who haven’t read and maybe don’t want to be spoiled)
    he is basically treated as a boogeyman story to scare people, and one aspect of it where he comes in and takes people away/kills them with his “volcanic arm”, then eventually wipes out a town for not listening to those warnings when it came to acting outside of the laws and in a form of rebellion.
     
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  14. Sheddai_Lightkeeper

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    Looks like a face book thumbs up like on the front of that drone, doesn't it.

    What is the origin of protocol 23? Any other appearances in Star Wars?

    [​IMG]
     
    #154 Sheddai_Lightkeeper, Jun 6, 2022
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  15. Hmm

    Hmm Guest

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    He sits in the TIE fighter because there is no other choice when flying it. I don't think he could stand in there. He sits in his meditation chamber because he is actually comfortable there since he can take off his mask - I think he is overall "relaxed" there. The banquet is a challenge :) The restroom needs to be addressed though to a dark place this line of thought will carry us.
     
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  16. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    Defiantly my favorite episode yet. Some really good moments and some utterly awesome ones. The Obi Wan and Leia on the truck with the storm troopers was great. Really enjoyed Indira Varma's character. The whole under ground rail road for jedi's was cool star wars law. Really enjoying the jockeying for positioning among the inquisitors (im not really getting the hate for Reva, not the best written/acted character but by any means awful and not damaging the show in my opinion)

    Then there was Vader walking through the streets of the that down choking out people and decimating people... just absolutely awesome. Loved it!!!!

    There some bits I didn't like, The Leia "are we there yet" bit was 'F'ing dreadful lazy comedy, (though I have to say over all i enjoyed Leia a lot more in this episode some of the interactions with Kenobi were really touching). While i loved lighting for the lightsaber fight did a great job of making Vader scary and Ewans acting was incredible, for me the choreography was disappointing compared to the prequel lightsaber fights or even the sequel lightsaber fights this very much felt made for TV. Also very TV feel to the setting an abandoned quarry sort of staple sci-fi shows have been using since the 60's.

    The Obi wan getting burned bit was a good touch though. But it made absolutely zero sense that Vader just let Kenobi go at the end, he was about 10 feel away and could of extinguished the fire again, or even walked round it. No way would the character just walk away. Obviously the director/writers just needed a quick way for Kenobi to escape here and didn't really come up with one so just fudged it which is disappointing. Also Leia getting captured again could be irksome, we only have 3 episodes left I don't want to waste it on Ben having to rescue Leia again. Hopefully they do something different with that.

    But over all great episode with a slightly disappointing end.
     
    #156 Mosley909, Jun 6, 2022
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I certainly appreciated this depiction much more than the R1 hallway scene. This version stripped away all the style and action pretense and focused on the base cruelty that defines the character.

    The whole point to Darth Vader is that he’s a man who has become entirely disconnected from his humanity. Both literally and figuratively. He’s physically incapsulated in this armor that does his living for him. Sensually, he experiences the world through artificiality. He sees others through mechanical eyes. He hears others through mechanical ears. He touches others through mechanical limbs. He’s truly disconnected from his material humanity.

    But this depiction is really just an outward expression of his inner experience. Vader isn’t just someone disconnected from his physical humanity, but more importantly, from his emotional humanity. He has no compassion or sympathy or mercy. Human life is meaningless to him. It’s disposable. It’s insignificant. That’s the importance and resonance to presenting him so thoroughly brutal and pitiless. “He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil.” He’s the visual metaphor for an unfeeling, uncaring inhumane being.

    Personally, I didn’t really get much of that motif from R1. He was used more as a symbolic representation of the overwhelming darkness that enduring hope must escape from. Which is lovely by itself. But it was staged with such conventional action grammar, that it gives off a bewildering sort of ‘fist-bump’ energy that folks in my theater I recall were actually cheering for. In my opinion, when a significant chunk of the audience is rooting for the embodiment of misery and viciousness efficiently slaughtering the vestiges of hope, you’ve maybe missed the mark a touch.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I know I posted how the duel didn't quite do it for me in the last episode, but I'm still enjoying myself. Absolutely confused why so many fans have such a negative reaction to what we've gotten so far, on a whole.

    I get everyone has their own opinion, and that's fine. But man, times like this really make me wonder if anything will make y'all happy.
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I rewatched the first 3 episodes over the weekend. Admittedly I was kind of distracted when I watched them the first time. The episodes hold up well. I love the exchanges between Obi-Wan and Leia. The 3rd episode has some fantastic writing in regards to the force. Obi-Wan analogy about the force and the light was very good and I just love the quote from Quinlan Vos that's speaking to Obi-Wan. Overall, this has been really well done so far.
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I love how we get this simile at the start of the episode for the comfort granted by a 'light in the darkness'. Then ends the episode with Obi-Wan literally using his lightsaber to do exactly that, but I don't think he'd found much comfort in it :)
     
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