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Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Old Biff from the Future, Dec 27, 2015.

?

Will Kylo Ren face off against Luke Skywalker on film?

Poll closed Sep 2, 2016.
  1. Yes

    140 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. No

    67 vote(s)
    31.9%
  3. What is the point? He is weak.

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  1. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    It feels like they're all actors - or they've been told in advance exactly what's going to happen.
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Im not sure if they where professional actors.
     
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  3. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    I’ve seen no-one mention this before, so I will now: what if Kylo Ren has already lost a hand/both of his hands?

    His hands are concealed throughout TFA, like Anakin’s robotic hand in ROTS and Luke’s in ROTJ, where they adopted gloves, and Kylo has done since.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sure, it could just be functional to wear gloves, but he’s depicted as having a robotic hand in a lot of TFA’s concept art, which interestingly depicts him as having lost his left hand, whereas Luke and Anakin lost their right:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And then we get the Hamlet-inspired stuff, depicting him as having lost his right hand:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I think it’s an intriguing possibility to think about how Kylo might have already lost one - if not both - of his hands, possibly to Luke, Snoke, the Praetorian Guard or someone else.

    Either way, in terms of mirroring Luke and Anakin, it would perhaps make some sense that he’s already lost one of them, considering that he is 29 in TFA, whereas Anakin lost his at 19, and Luke at 22, especially if he’s the only grandchild of Vader.
     
    #5103 Julius Fett, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  4. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    Interesting.. Luke was 22 in ESB and lost his hand.....Anakin was 19 when he lost his hand but also lost his other hand and legs at 23 during ROTS.....the Vader reveal in the novel Blood line would have happened when Ben Solo was 23 so 22-23 definitely makes sense if they're giving Ben Solo/Kylo Ren a mechanical hand.....now I am wondering if he slammed a mechanical hand into the wall in the trailer while destroying his helmet (otherwise he is definitely going to have injuries on that hand after)
     
    #5104 panki, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  5. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    IMO him losing a hand/hands, thus making it a blatant "Skywalker thing", would be too on the nose. ;)
     
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  6. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    Maybe you feel he should lose a foot instead? :D:p
     
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  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    That's an interesting and original thought, but I doubt it. Does this look like a mechanical hand to you?
    [​IMG]

    It's more likely that he will lose one in the next movies. Maybe the last shot of TLJ is a robotic hand touching Vader's mask (similar to the concept art).
     
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  8. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    Well, to play devil's advocate, it's not like Luke's or Anakin's gloved hand looks robotic. :p
     
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  9. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    Its hard to tell the difference between a synthskin hand and a real one, and even more so under a glove.....I think Kylo having lost a hand earlier during the Vader's identity reveal for no fault of his might actually put him in a sympathetic light....especially if he felt his family lied to him, abandoned him and left him to die.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Fair enough. It's kinda interesting how much emphasis is given to hands in TLJ.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Good thought.

    I wonder, if true, if he did it to himself to be more like grandad?! :eek:
     
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  12. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    As long as he does not lose his head..
    oth he already has lost his mind from time to time :D
     
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  13. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Seriously...this is actually the first thing that came to my mind when I noticed how we’ve yet to see his hands and that most of the concept art depicts him with a robotic one.

    And it’s a scary thought, but it would be...interesting? In a world filled with fans willing to go to many lengths to be like their idols, it could serve as an interesting narrative on fandom in many ways.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2017 ---
    Well, another interesting thing to mention is:

    • Anakin was 22 when he was turned to the Dark Side in ROTS, seduced by Palpatine.
    • Luke was 22 when Vader attempted to turn him to the Dark Side in TESB.
    • Ben would have been 22/23 around the time of Bloodline, if this is when he turned himself over to Snoke and the Dark Side.

    I think, honestly, that we’re going to see a 19 year-old Ben Solo in TLJ.

    Anakin was 19 in AOTC - and, strangely enough, achieved many of the things Luke wanted to at this age; he got the girl by marrying Padmé, and he’d also travelled much of the galaxy at this point - and Luke was 19 in ANH. Their actions at 19 ultimately defined their future direction in life.

    Which makes me think that though Ben might have sensed Snoke for a long time - perhaps since birth, as the Aftermath novels hint - that he only met him at 19.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Just a little correction:
    - Anakin was 23 in ROTS
    - Luke was 23 in ROTJ
    - Ben was 23 when he was presumably seduced by the dark side
    - Finn was 23 when he deserted from the FO

    Now what will happen with Rey if we ever see her with the age of 23?

    Shouldn't we rather see a 23 years old Ben Solo?
     
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  15. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    My bad, didn’t know that Anakin was 23 in ROTS - working from his birth year. I said Luke was 22 in TESB, which, yes, would make him 23 in ROTJ. I said that Ben would be 22/23 because Bloodline isn’t set exactly 6 years before TFA. I never mentioned Finn’s age, so that’s not a correction.

    So, that’s one correction: which seems to be wrong (see edit).

    As for Ben, sure, I agree we’ll see him at 23 when and if he attacks the Academy, as I’ve said elsewhere; but as I was hinting at, I think he actually meets Snoke at the age of 19.

    The meetings that defined Luke’s and Anakin’s futures were carried out at 19, being with Ben Kenobi and Padmé, respectively. Their choices that defined their futures came at 22 and 23 respectively.

    EDIT: actually, @NinjaRen , from what I’ve found, Anakin was born in 41 BBY, as I believed and was working from, not 42 BBY, implied by your statements, which would make him 21/22 in ROTS, not 22/23.
     
    #5115 Julius Fett, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  16. Niamor

    Niamor Rebel Official

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    what the...
     
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  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    This was changed then. Because he was born in 42 BBY in Legends. I can even remember that Pablo said that Anakin was 23 at the end of ROTS. What a stupid change. This makes the appearance of Sebastian Shaw even more ridiculous.

    Even though he may have been born in 41 BBY, that doesn't mean he's 22. He can still be 23 if he's born 41,9 (that's still considered to be 41 BBY). So for me, he's still 23 in ROTS because 23 is a important number in the Star Wars world.

    I haven't listened to everything yet, but this line is interesting: "Did you see grandfather?" or is it "Did you see, grandfather?" I can't tell.
     
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  18. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Sorry @NinjaRen but your maths is a little off.

    From what I recall he was born in 41.9 BBY in Legends, which I know seeing as it says so in the timeline of the Star Wars Annual 2008, but even then, his first birthday would be 40.9 BBY. At most, even if the ending of ROTS took place at 19.01, he would still only have 21 more birthdays between 40.9 and 19.01; he would be 22 at most in ROTS, and 21 otherwise.

    As for 23 being an important number in Star Wars, is it really? If the parallel is to be drawn between Luke in TESB, Anakin in ROTS and Kylo around the time of Bloodline, we know the former two to be 22 when Vader and Palpatine tried to first seduce them, respectively, and that Kylo would have been either 22 or 23 (Bloodline takes place around 6 years prior to TFA, not exactly, and if the parallel is being drawn, there’s more of an argument to be made that Ben was 22 and not 23).

    We would then only be left with Luke and Leia being 23 in ROTJ and Finn being 23 in TFA (and probably TLJ) in terms of the Saga’s main characters, which doesn’t exactly go against any of my points anyway.
     
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  19. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Well, then a lot of people are wrong then, because there are several lists about the character's ages and they all prove my point:
    http://www.yodasdatapad.com/ages.html
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OVO3H2O_KHdrv_N0kNdEuv3nBeE5q-Kzg6g_mT7Wizo/edit#gid=0

    The age of 23 would be an important number because every Skywalker had to deal with the dark side with that age.
    - Anakin turned to the dark with 23 (ROTS)
    - Luke almost turned to the dark side with 23 (ROTJ)
    - Ben was still a Jedi six years prior TFA (he's 29 in TFA)

    I think we won't agree on this matter. Let's just agree to disagree.
     
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  20. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    I used Wookieepedia as my source, but seeing as that doesn’t seem enough to convince you, maybe this photo from the Rogue One Ultimate Visual Guide - written by Pablo Hidalgo and released only last December - on page 111 will go some ways to convincing you (to the left of Vader on the right page):

    [​IMG]
    If this was a matter of opinion, then I would be open to agreeing to disagree, but this debate is based on fact.

    The argument you’re raising is, almost verbatim, the one that I made with Anakin being 22 in ROTS, Luke being 22 in TESB - where he was also almost turned to the Dark Side - and Ben being 22 or 23 around the time of Bloodline (again: around six years before TFA), except using the number 23.

    It’s the exact same argument other than the numbers, so we clearly agree that there’s correlation in the parallels, but again: their ages allow us to determine which parallels correlate and which do not (Luke in ROTJ and Luke in TESB are nearly completely different, for instance).
     
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