Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

And that's where we agree completely.

Kylo Ren is such a well thought out character, at least in The Force Awakens.

I found this really interesting but of writing on Tumblr, in the midst of all the pron and nastiness. It's basically a summation of all the quotes from Adam Driver and JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson that refer to Ben Solo's characterisation.





Pretty cool huh?

 

not to dismiss tumblr entirely (because there is intelligent life there amidst, as you said, the dregs ~ hahahaha
but more to the point of taking off the mask: Ren's relationship with Rey (whatever it will be) is ultimately more important going forward. Han already knew his son was human and what he looked like even though he hadn't seen him in years. Rey is confronted with someone who subverts her expectations: he's young, not terribly scary, and he's an idealist (however misguided). he's simply not a "monster" as she accuses him.

likewise, i'm sorry to contribute to this trope, but it's a trope for a reason:


this kid absolutely knows he has fabulous hair. he knows he's a prince.
he not only wants Rey to see him as human, but also as a superior specimen in every sense of the word.

 

Don't do Darkside kids.

 

First he wants to be like Vader, and then he's unhappy. Kids these days. But seriously, I love how Rian and Adam are developing this character. I already like the Kylo Ren of TLJ more than the one of TFA and I'm obviously a huge fan of the TFA one.

 

I just want Kylo Ren to have access to better hair products.

 

jeezus this change is shocking.
it just makes me want to cry.

 

Don't worry. It's only temporary. Soon, Ben Solo will rise from the ashes of the greasy, sad mess that is TLJ!Kylo. Just look at the merch featuring him this time around.



HE'S SOFT AND CUDDLY YOU GUYS

 

BWHAHAhahahaa ~ what in the world is THAT?
i feel like i need it, immediately.

 

The only thing the video really points out is his version of what he thinks Kylo is. Making him what he isn't. Keeping the mask on wouldn't have shown anything at all or the same thing at all. That is not true at all. Wouldn't have even given the same affect.

Kylo is two people. The one he tries to be and the one who is his true self in which he's trying to extinguish and having a hard time achieving it. Which he probably will in TLJ

 

You cannot undo a wrong deed, and you definitely cannot undo murder. Kylo knows there is only one way to go once you cross that line. Go full steam forward. There is no turning back. He needs to be like Keyser Soze, and be that man. That's far more interesting than oh no. I messed up. Can I come home ma?

I hope that's where they take his character. We will get layers of course, but like any person who decides to be a true bad boy. There ain't no turning back. Go hard or go home. Take it all, or die trying.

 

"Surely, good deeds erase bad deeds." - Quran
=> Also one of the themes of Star Wars

First you need to cross the line to understand if you want what's behind the line. Only by seeing the deepest abyss Ren can decide whether he wants to go on with his path to the dark side or not. I'm telling you after he witnessed the true power of the dark side he will run back to his family and beg for forgiveness.

 

You can't undo a lot of things but people can and do change. Now whether Ben changes or not who knows.

 

He wants power, and there is only one way of achieving that. By any means necessary. You can't be a sucker and cop out the moment it gets too hot. The game doesn't work that way. Either you're all in or don't play this game. Kylo killing his father shoiuld tell us he means to play. It doesn't matter he felt weak afterwards. People feel all kinds of things after killing someone. Some feel regret. Some feel nothing, but it doesn't mean they won't hesitate to do it again. It goes with the game. Mafia members and drug cartels lose family and friends all the time. It doesn't stop them from playing.

 

You've got his motivation all wrong. He doesn't want power for power's sake. That's not the sort of villain he is. He thinks he's doing the right thing. He's not "the usurper" he's a terrorist. So for him to finally go dark would require a moment of affirmation. He's got NONE of those in The Force Awakens.
He thought he could capture Rey and get information out of her easily- he was wrong. He thought he'd be able to kill his father and finally lose the light in him- he was wrong. He thought he pull his grandfather's lightsaber to him now that he was "more powerful"- he was wrong.

He thought he could defeat Rey- he was wrong.

The whole of the movie was about how his beliefs were all wrong. Mistaken. Deluded.

See, I can see why you want him to double down and truly give in to his darkness. But here's the thing- that's what he wants too! That's what he's been trying so desperately to do. And FAILED to do, even after he sabred his father to death. He wants to become wholely dark but like he says,




He can't bury the pull of the light and nothing, not even patricide is enough to push him over the edge completely.

If he doesn't have a redemption arc, well, then the whole of TFA would be a great big lie.

Besides, him staying on the dark side would mean that

Luke would ultimately be a failure- he loses his nephew and student to the dark side, and unlike Obi-Wan, won't see him redeem himself.
Leia would die brokenhearted - With her husband dead and her son truly lost.
Han's death would be futile - His death wouldn't have started the redemption of his. He died forgiving Ben.

There are no winners in that scenario. It would be a pyrrhic victory. Bitter and empty.

Something they'd never allow in a Star Wars Saga movie.

 

That's what would make it tragic. There doesn't have to be a winner. Except those who choose to make the right choices. We all don't make the right choices, but there has to be a line regardless you do not cross.

Luke wouldn't be a failure. Even though he might see himself that way, but we don't know just yet if all of his grief is due to Kylo turning against him. Family can do the best they can with what they have. It's Kylo's decision to choose what he wants to be. Kylo was having issues before Luke anyway, so it wouldn't be his fault. Han said there is too much Vader in him. He might have some light within him, but his darkness supersedes that.

 

Star Wars won't end in tragedy. That'll go against the very grain of why this franchise is so beloved. It's hopeful and bright in a world that seems increasingly murky and dark.
You might argue that the PT ends on a tragic note but does it? Anyone watching would have known that Darth Vader died Anakin Skywalker after killing Palpatine, saving the life of his son and fulfilling the prophecy by bringing balance to the force.

I get why you want to him grow in power, but it's folly to think that there's no strength in the light

 

At the beginning of the movie:



vs.

When he see Rey of Light:

 

Come Kylo Ren, and feel the light of Rey.

 

Regarding Kylo killing his own father Adam Driver said the following: “That's (Kylo's) starting point. His internal wounds cut more deeply than the one on his face he got from fighting Rey.”
That doesn't sound like Ren will try to go any further into the dark side, it actually hints at an even bigger inner conflict in the new movie.

 

he definitely looks more pulled together later in the film, which bodes well for him.
even though he looks tense, he also looks calm (not angry, not eeeeeevil).

if it's true that the Skywalker saga is coming to an end and the new trilogy will not be a X, XI, XII, that makes me even more confident Ben will be just fine.
as @LilyInTheSkywalker said, this family will not end on a tragedy, but a triumph.