Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

i like the idea of them being able to communicate by distance and getting to know one another better in some fashion. Rey has no reason whatsoever to empathize with him at the moment and even if Luke is averse to killing him, i suspect he'll have a hard time convincing Rey it's not the right thing to do. maybe if Rey can rummage around in his head a bit more, she'll find something redeemable about him and that'll help her not to fall Dark.

what he can get out of the arrangement would be her courage and strength of will.

more than fair trade, i think.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 2, 2016 ---

er...sure it was. "by the grace of your training, i shall not be seduced."

but i like the alternate inference created by this particular edit.

 

I read the link you put up, and I inferred from it that the Force bond was not nessecarily a 2 way street as such, but it could be more directed by the one with the more powerful talent for it. If we assume for the sake of argument that Rey is stronger in the talent, then perhaps could we infer that the 'trade' you speak of is not maybe so fair? I would have to think further on how this could play out.

I agree Rey might like to kill Kylo, but I wonder if the Force bond could stay her hand in a way she doesn't understand rationally? The info on the link seemed to say that once the bond was severed, through death or otherwise, it left a 'wound' in the Force, and that it made it hard for people bonded to do each other in? Perhaps this could be a factor in why Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin....

 

yeah that's true. i'm just always looking for parity (lest people cry foul ~ because they do every time you suggest these two share any screen time).

given that they've already been in one another's heads and given all their other binaries, i can see it being mutual (or would hope it was).
though i do agree, Rey has strengths Ren obviously lacks at the moment. i hasten to add i would hate to see her psychologically dominate him in any way. he's already effed in the head enough.

 

I kind of expect the roles to be reversed this time around. Kylo has become much more focused and cold-blooded (or if he's still angry/passionate, then Snoke has taught him how to harness it to make himself powerful). Whereas she, as a result of certain painful details coming to light, or perhaps philosophical disagreements with Luke, will be much more emotionally conflicted and angry. Plus, she might still want to confront Kylo in order to avenge Han and Finn.

Kylo's problem isn't lack of talent (he can do things that even powerful Sith like Darth Vader or Count Dooku couldn't). It's that his angry and mental instability keep undermining him/prevent him from reaching his full potential. If he could learn some self-control/focus, then he could become immensely powerful and dangerous.

 

Yes, I think this idea is so intriguing too!

I definitely think that Rey's sudden surge in Force talent is because while she and Kylo were mucking around in each other's heads, a Force bond formed. Her sudden ability to do the Jedi mind trick sprang directly from that interaction IMO. (Kind of ironic, isn't it, that Kylo wants to be her teacher? In my mind, he already has been her teacher through the bond!)

I have also begun to wonder if Kylo realized that there is a bond. (I don't think it was an intentional bond, but I could be wrong.) He tells the female stormtrooper about Rey, "She's just beginning to test her powers. The longer it takes to find her, the more dangerous she becomes." Hmm. Why? Luke sure didn't act this way when he was starting to use the Force. There's something weird about Rey's Force powers. There could be a number of explanations, but I'm going with the bond for now. Could the bond mean she can draw on Kylo's abilities whenever she likes, as soon as she figures out how to? Does it mean she would do so via the Dark Side?

Also interesting that if Kylo is aware of the bond, he didn't tell Snoke about it.

Anyway, another "bond" moment (in my mind) is this one when Kylo has Rey backed up at the cliff edge:



Seriously, what is he doing here? Trying to mesmerize with his eyes? (He probably thinks he can. ) Or is he trying to convince her to become his student through the bond?

I don't think it's an accident that when she calls on the Force immediately following this, she seems to be drawing on some Dark. Again, that's open to interpretation, but I'm thinking she's channeling -type stuff.

I am so looking forward to seeing if this plays out in Ep. VIII.

 

@Empire Jo, @Choose Light:

for what it's worth, hidalgo might be hinting that a Force bond (or something like it) occurred in the interrogation:



Ren certainly gives Rey a long time to consider his offer.
given that we, as an audience, can guess what Rey is doing (and going to do), he strikes me as particularly clueless in the moment.

but then again, he is a complete wreck at this point and stupidly thinks he's winning in spite of that, so he's probably way beyond rational thinking.

 

Thanks for that info--I didn't know Pablo had said that!

On the other hand, I think Pablo is a mix of the Sphinx, the Delphic Oracle, and Obi-Wan--most of the time he's either full of riddles or he tweets something misleading...from a certain point of view.

 

well yeah, everything with a giant salt lick. hahaha

if nothing else, Rey certainly learned that poking into someone's mind was possible through their interaction.
that's sufficient for me, though i know other people aren't down with that.
i'm rooting for something more, though. a Force bond could be very cool and it's something we haven't seen up to this point.

also, i really think getting into Ren's head is the key to dealing with him. that's where all of his wires are crossed ~ it's where Snoke lives.

 

Love to Rey Vs Luke

 

@FN-3263827, @ Choose Light

The whole Force bond could be an interesting one to play around with as the saga develops, and the force bond is apparently cannon, as Dooku used his with Yoda to sense him when he went to morriband in TCW. Perhaps SW Rebels too is bringing this kind of idea to the fore, with Ezra's special force ability being force connection with animals. Another interesting thing, the force bond thing seems to be a power light and dark users can have, think back to when Sidious felt Anakin was in danger in ROTS.

It gives a way to further explore the dynamic between Rey and Kylo, develop powers, knowledge, and also draw out any burried memories, get inside their heads. Entirely useful plot device really.

You also have to wonder what kind of force bond Kylo and Luke have, as well as Snoke and Kylo and how that could play out.

Another off shoot of the force bond thing is the force drain, see link
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_drain

This seems to be a dark extension to the force bond thing, and there are certainly some aspects of this power that could pertain to a certain Snokey Leader.

 

Gaah! That last statement freaked me out. I really really hate thinking of Snoke living in Leia's baby's head. I try to see both sides of most things, but I will be cheering my head off when Snoke finally gets what's coming to him.

 

this is interesting to think about ~ i'm sure Luke would have done everything in his power to reach Ben. i wonder if Luke and Ben weren't able to share minds (possibly because Snoke was already in there, being a jackass). this is kind of why i think it might take Rey to touch him.

always nice to meet a kindred spirit! hahaha

i've said it elsewhere, but seriously: i have never had such a violent revulsion toward a character as i have for Snoke. he is literally the worst.
i would happily invite Palpatine to dinner before letting Snoke within 100 feet of my house ~ hahaha

 

I hope Rey never goes that far down the Dark Side path that she would fight Luke! On the other hand, I bet their sparring sessions during training would be very exciting. I bet R2 will be worried sick.

 

Maybe Luke's force talents are just stronger in other areas?

Quick side tangent, wasnt Obi Wan supposed to have a bit of talent in this area? That was how he tamed the lizard thing he rode in ROTS. If Rey is also strong in this area, could give the Rey is Obi Wans offshoot some ammo. Oh carabast, realised this could also add credence to the idea that Rey is Palpy's offshoot. Not sure where I really stand on that yet, but I'm trying to look at the evidence without bias and see where it could lead. I tend to lean more towards she's Luke's, but really it's still wide open for me.

Anakin and Leia don't seem to be too strong in this area, so maybe Kylo isn't either?

If Snokes is force bonded, or force draining Kylo to any extent, it could sure make him a little touchy. Maybe Snoke needs both the light and dark sides of the force for a satisfying meal, which is why he likes to keep Kylo on a short leash. Could also explain how Snokes knew Ben was strong in the force, and why he targeted him initially.

And here's a thought... Maybe Snoke put Kylo and his little droogs (KOR) up to the Jedi massacre so he could force drain the Jedi's at their point of death. Also, if Snokey plans to force drain people/force sensitives/the galaxy, then this could give a pretty compelling reason for the good guys to bring him down.

 

Force draining....thats cool. What if Snoke tries to force drain Rey? I think Kylo won't let that happen...would be interesting to see how it would happen on screen. ooh I can see it....

 

Veeeery interesting point. Doesn't the novelization say that Snoke chose Ben because of his ability to draw from both the Light and the Dark? (Sorry, I don't have the novel.)

I was going to say "Food for thought," but I decided not to go there.

 

that's my impression ~ Luke doesn't show particular prowess in the mind trick area to begin with.

i don't know if particular Force-traits are inherited (maybe? Vader didn't seem great in this area either). but i would argue Kylo Ren does have aptitude ~ he might also just be particularly powerful in many ways that his predecessors weren't. ironically, though he's afraid of not being as strong as his grandfather, it's certainly not Force-strength he lacks, really.

there's been a lot of talk about Snoke using Ren as his personal juice-box and i think there's probably something to it. Snoke definitely likes that Ren is Light/Dark mix. the Force drain is an interesting concept, but i wonder if Snoke would need to build the FO to accomplish this when he could just be a vampire operating without all the flash. why does Snoke need military might?

 

Maybe it's like a positive feedback loop (ya see what I did there? Maybe it was harder for Snoke to do the force drain when he was really weak, ah la the Jedi massace. Get's a force feed and gets rid of potential problems. Though maybe it's still like pouring water through a bucket with holes with Snoke. Or Force draining is like a drug, and he needs more and more to sustain himself as his addiction increases. Maybe he's using the FO to size up his juicer, to get a bigger fix? Sate his evil, unsatiable appetite.

 

I wonder if Luke discovered some kind of bonding aptitude in Ben, but didn't know quite how to deal with it, and then Snoke snuck in and got Ben all puffed up about it, as he seems to be so good at doing. To me that would be a perfect place to drive in a wedge between Luke and Kylo.

I am stoked to see if Kylo and Rey's bond (if of course it exists) holds up over long distances, say from Ach-To to...wherever Snoke and Kylo are. Boy, will Luke be surprised to find his apprentice has some interesting stuff in her head...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 5, 2016 ---

It's weird--Snoke doesn't seem to be into "Ultimate Powwwwwah" like Palpatine was. He really does just seem to be into Force manipulations. Creepy!

 

possibly! ~ he gets fed from the death that the FO inflicts.
he is rather insistent that Hux blows up the Hosnian system in its entirety instead of just taking out the New Republic.

i'd love to see some weird Force bond stuff!
i'm hoping that's the sort of "weird" that Kasdan was referring to when he talked about Rian Johnson's script.

by the way, here's the squicky business about Snoke's Light/Dark thing with Ren: