Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

lols. Ah yeah....the weird stuff you find on tumblr...kids these days.

 

I'm not sure if we are going to learn more about the Knights of Ren in VIII or not but I'd like to see their story fleshed out at some point (even a novel would be fine). What I'm interested to see is the make up of the KOR. A lot of people assume that they are all dark siders but if that is the case why is Kylo the only one with a light saber in the "force back". All the other knights have melee weapons of some type. I'm not so sure that the KOR are all force users. Kylo may be the leader because his powers with the force.

 

This question has probably been discussed, but I wonder what people think...

Was Ben Solo trained as a youngling? If not, why?

If Ben wasn't trained why did they wait so long to send him to Luke?

 

This is what wookiepedia tells us

"The son of Leia Organa and Han Solo, Ben was sent to study alongside other Jedi students at a young age, being instructed and led by his uncle, Jedi MasterLuke Skywalker"

 

That doesn't really tell us anything because if Ben was sent to Luke at 15 that could be considered "at a young age." Right?

 

Leia wasn't trained in the Force.
i can see her not wanting to push Ben into being a Jedi (Han either for that matter ~ let the kid grow up and make his own choices).
we don't know anything of Ben's temperament and that might have had something to do with the timing as well.
it probably wasn't until Leia started worrying about his Dark side inclinations that she decided to shuffle him off ~ particularly if she believed Luke could shield him or help him shield himself from Snoke.

obviously it was already too late.

 

I am not sure. Imo "at a young age" referce to "a young age to begin training". Otherwise the paragraph of the article doesn't make much sense, does it? From what we learned about the prequels and the OT is- that you can never be too young to start with training. So I guess it is valid to asume that " at a young age" means " young to start with the training".

 

Yeah, if that were the case Ben was trained when he he was very young... then he was sent to Luke again later on.

 

that doesn't seem to make sense. why start him on a path and then interrupt his training?
and then realize oops--bad idea--ever since the kid got back from Jedi camp he's been wearing all black and stomping around with an attitude, let's send him back to Luke.

eh...

 

I'd like to see Kylo vs. Luke, however, I need to feel that Luke is clearly the more wise and powerful of the two. The only way Luke's defeat would make sense to me is if he was sacrificing himself for someone else, or had to leave the fight to rescue a fallen ally (such as Yoda did at the end of episode II).

 

I agree... there's certainly a lot more to learn about this period.

 

That would be the only way I'd be OK with Luke losing. To be honest, I don't even want to think about Luke going down. (Han was plenty!)

 

I don't think Han or Leia wanted him to become a Jedi. More so Han. I think this likely frustrated Ben, who had this great power but didn't know how to use it. What to do with it. Then Snoke gets in his head and things get worse, so then Leia basically decides herself he has to train with Luke. But their mistake as parents all along was in fearing Ben's power - that it could lead him down the wrong path. And that became a self-fulfilling prophesy. Had they had Luke work with him from a young age and given him an outlet for his power, given him a place in the galaxy (not just be the Son of Han Solo) then he might've been able to resist Snoke.

 

i think this is a logical possibility.
even if Snoke got him very young, sending him to Luke right away might have sorted things out in his head ~ he could have potentially had the FS confidant that he seems to crave.
but since Leia didn't tell Han about Snoke and maybe thought to sort it out herself, she waited too long to send Ben off.
also, we don't know if Ben was just a perfectly normal-seeming child with no cause for concern until, likewise, it was already too late.
if we take Han's "too much Vader" as a clue, Ben must have developed some behavorial problem eventually that sparked off the whole thing.

whether this was provoked by Snoke pushing him or Ben's inability to articulate his frustration at being pushed and therefore acting out is anybody's guess.

Kylo Ren seems to hate his parents (or, at least his father, certainly).
from a psychological perspective this isn't at all unusual if he felt like Han failed to protect him.

 

Han was also the hero of the Rebellion. Celebrated. Admired. Loved. Tough act to live up to. I think the generation of kids whose parents fought in World War II felt a great sense of living in their fathers shadows or that whatever they do in their life it will pale in comparison to what their fathers went through and achieved. I think this could've been the same for Ben. He had a power (regardless of Snoke) but he had no cause (in peacetime). Then Snoke get's in his head with a purpose. A mission. A destiny.

The thing that confuses me is the comment Leia makes about Snoke knowing he had the potential for good and evil, or something like that. Doesn't everyone?
That confused me.

 

yeah, it's a weird line, i agree.
i can only guess the intent was to say he was on that line between Dark and Light with no particular predisposition to either.
but that begs the question of whether FSs have predispositions. because otherwise, yeah, everyone's capable.

 

Yeah, everything wasn't rosy for Han/Leia/Ben when he was growing up. We may learn that both of them were too invested in what they were doing to pay attention to Ben. Leia could have been heavily invested in the New Republic. We could learn there was friction between her and Luke in terms of what his role would be in this New Republic.

 

yeah ~ given Ren's emotional immaturity, it seems he's never developed healthy coping mechanisms and that could be because of a less-than-ideal upbringing.
and certainly Snoke corrupting him from the inside would not have helped.
Snoke could have easily manipulated him into feeling discarded and rejected by his parents for sending him to Luke ~ and simultaneously vilifying Luke from the outset.

 

You know, I think the whole "power of the darkness" that Vader showed Kylo has and is being over-thought by all.
We're all wondering what it is. That it must link to Kylo's personal mission. But I don't think so. I think he has his own goals but this is something else.
We've kind of established here that Kylo is conflicted. In TFA he says he wants an end to the pain.
Well, if Kylo had a vision of Vader in his prime, what does he see?
He see's a man, who was once conflicted himself. But now self-assured in his evil.
If you dismiss Anakin, as Kylo does, then Vader is the symbol of someone who doesn't feel pain. Conflict. Remorse.
That is the power of the darkness. It provides you with protection from the cold of the light.

 

i thought that was clear from the context of the scene. Ren's worried that Snoke senses his call to the Light, so he calls on Vader to help suppress/snuff/mask it?

i mean, there's still the whole "finish what you started", but his initial plea seems to be about meeting Snoke's expectations (or hiding his failures).