SPECULATION OFFICIAL Finn Discussion Thread

Certainly the introduction of their characters in TFA gives the most ground for believing Finn will maintain "relevance" as it were, the mask parallels and the presence of all three characters in pivotal scenes together (death of Han Solo, duel in the forest etc.) but I think the fear is that those "treatments" were merely part of the bait and switch routine: now that the deception is no longer necessary Finn won't receive the same treatment as he did in TFA.

I would also humbly submit that while we cannot be sure exactly what each of the three will be doing in VIII with only one of the three do we have no idea: Rey will likely be trained by Luke and Kylo will likely be trained by Snoke. These aren't certainties by any means but they are quite likely.

While Finn.....Finn's in a coma. Yes we can presume he'll do something with the Resistance but nothing specific, nothing foreshadowed.

I'm not particularly worried about Luke overshadowing Finn. The majority of his scenes will be with Rey and I'm pretty sure Finn and Luke won't meet until the end of VIII , if they meet at all. Plus Luke should overshadow people somewhat, he's a big Maclunkey deal.

I'm actually more worried that Luke will be poorly used for the rest of this trilogy and cast aside unceremoniously but that's for a different discussion.

As to whether Kylo, Rey and Finn will be the triumvirate of the trilogy it's difficult to say. Triumvirates are usually used to describe a trio of heroes which don't really apply here (debates over Kylo's redemption aside). We have:

Protagonist = Rey
Antagonist = Kylo

The core of the story so far revolves around them and their struggle.

Supporting Protagonist = Finn

Who will keep us updated on the galactic backdrop, the conflict.

 

we've had this conversation before, so i won't dwell, but i do appreciate what you're saying about Rey as protagonist and Ren as antagonist leaving Finn in what feels like a limbo (where he is literally at the end of TFA), but i still think he'll be the balance between them.
and, if Ren is redeemed (or allied in some tenuous fashion, which is more likely the case if it happens early), that balance is going to be critical.

 

We have haven't we? But then what conversations haven't been had around these parts.

I'm sure we've talked about this balance idea too but I can't remember my reply. I'm sure it was the same as what I'll say now which is that I don't really see what relationship Finn would have with Kylo to play a balancing role between him and Rey. I think the ground is more fertile for Rey to be more sympathetic towards Kylo than Finn would be.

 

It's looking more and more that some ideas Just Passing Through and I had about Finn are becoming more and more unlikely.
I won't spoil them here. I'll save it for the Episode Viii finn thread. But I am a lot less optimistic than I was 4 months ago.

 

the more i think about Rey and Kylo Ren (and all panting Reylo aside), they are kinda of like oil and water. even if they do have some kind of Force attraction, there's also liable to be a lot of static between them. Finn has no reason to be sympathetic to Ren, but he does understand what growing up in the FO was about and what kind of power that indoctrination has over your mind.

the hatred between those two is so particular, in fact, i wonder if it won't be subverted in the subsequent films. the first "action" between them, after all, is an act of mercy on Ren's part. Finn really did betray him and the Order, after all. so if, for whatever reason Ren breaks with the FO as well, they would have that in common.

i don't really know the particulars of how something like that would play out (it's not in my interests to think that far into it), but i think there's interesting possibilities there.

 

Ah, you've peaked my interest now. I'd settle for any significant news about Finn even if it is news that will put me off his character.

I'm going to go off on a slight tangent here.

We talked earlier about the parallels or common treatments that Kylo, Rey and Finn shared during TFA, mask introductions etc., and one of the most significant contrasts between those two protagonists and Kylo are their origins: both Rey and Finn are effectively orphans while Kylo is halfway to becoming a self-made one. Furthermore, both Rey and Finn began the story with few bonds, familial/friendship/romantic whatever, but gained those relationships with other characters and each other as the film progressed. Kylo spent his story both pre-film and during the film losing or destroying the bonds he began with, betraying his uncle and killing his father.

Away from that long spiel (you can skip to here for the actual important stuff) what's important in predicting the relationships between Kylo and Rey or Kylo in Finn is not how those two feel about Kylo but what Kylo feels towards them. Both Rey and Finn hold similar feelings of hatred and disgust towards Kylo at the end of TFA but Kylo feels quite differently towards each of them.

Without encouraging the shippers, it seems as though Kylo is more fascinated with Rey or curious at least in terms of having found a peer perhaps or someone to teach it seems (although that was quite clearly shoehorned in there to reference ESB).

With Finn, Kylo has a clear feeling of hatred and anger. Perhaps because he represents a moment of weakness in Kylo (at the start of TFA) or because of Finn embodies virtues severely lacking in Kylo. Regardless, the relationship between Kylo and Finn is more antagonistic, at the moment, than the one between Rey and Kylo.

 

i'm not nerdy enough to draw the requisite diagram, but in my head, it could potentially look like this:

Luke says: hey you guys all need to work together to defeat the FO.

• Rey says
  • oh hell no! this is nuts! (she has yet to prove she can work well with anybody.)
• Ren says
  • oh hell yes, i want to work with Rey! (because of course he does, Reylo or no).
  • but oh hell no, me and Traitor can't be on the same team!
• Finn says
  • oh hell yes, i can put bad blood aside to stop the FO! (that's the primary goal and Finn is the character who would be able to focus on this).
    
  • okay, Ren Ben's messed up in the head, but he's stupid powerful and we want that on our side (especially if that's what will kill Snoke);
  • i got out and was embraced by the Resistance; give him the same consideration if he's asking for it.

now Finn is in a position in which he has the unenviable job of keeping Rey and Ren from self-destructing against one another while struggling with his own concerns about trusting or accepting Ren Ben into the fold, possibly resenting any kind of Force bond between the FS people/jealousy (and still further complicated by said Ren Ben not appreciating his efforts).

i know some people might argue that puts Finn in the position of being the layup guy instead of doing the dunks, but i would argue that teamwork is teamwork and his running interference is the slam dunk because without a unified team, there's no winning. and it only has to be part of his role anyway. i still want to see him take down the Finalizer and kick Hux in the teeth ~ hahaha

and now i have thought about this waaay to much. again.

edit: and once again, every time i post to this thread i regret it because people feel the need to slap on ratings instead of just having, you know, an actual discussion with an exchange of ideas. that's okay. i like the number 33.

 

It's weird how tie fighters are now more associated with Finn than any other main character since Vader.

 

Ok.

For starters, I'm not going to down rate this post (because generally speaking I just don't do that kind of thing, even if I disagree). You and I have disagreed a lot, but I don't think I've ever down voted/rated you ever. But I don't think I could imagine a worst treatment for Finn's character going forward. Honestly, in this capacity, I don't see why Finn would be necessary. They could literally introduce a new throw away character and have that person serve as arbiter between Rey and Kylo, there is nothing about Finn, nothing intrinsic to him in this proposed capacity that couldn't be filled by any existing character.

This isn't layup guy, this is the "good job, good effort" guy who has no athletic ability but has spunk, moxy, and school spirit and makes the team on inspirational hustle year after year, so he gets to play 30 seconds for one game on Senior Night.

Honest question, do you think Finn is crucial to the story going forward? If so how? He isn't confirmed FS yet. There has been no hint that he is viewed as anything but a traitor by his fellow FS soldiers (so very low prospects of him leading a rebellion from within at this time). He ostensibly has no more tactical knowledge of any use, SK Base is gone. He isn't a pilot, little chance of him becoming an X-wing Ace (and that job is comprehensively fulfilled by Poe Dameron anyway). He isn't an established love interest for Rey, it's hinted at, but they could easily write a different direction; he isn't necessary for that role. The established heart and soul of the Resistance is Leia, they don't need him for that either. Even if they decided to kill off Leia, there is little reason to believe that they would turn to Finn for that leadership.... too many other veteran characters still around. What role does Finn, and Fin alone fulfill?

I'm not a Finn hater, I think it's well known that I believe all the context data points to his FS, and that he will be kept central to the story line through development in that aspect. But I guess when I see projections like the one above (and I know you were just thinking out loud but still) I wonder... why would Finn be necessary for that role, and why would that role be of any significance to the overall story? I don't see necessity or significance in either.

 

Well he did co-pilot one with Poe, then went on a running spree with Rey with them in pursuit, he's in good company with them

 

No it's perfectly legitimate because the film does not establish anything of the sort. Him being in the movie or having focus means nothing. Jar Jar Binks was in the movie and had focus. Finn is a comedic relief character with a weird backstory for his role, nothing more. The only reason he is in this movie is to fail at everything so that the camera can pan over to Rey and be like: "Now look at how awesome she is compared to this bumbling jackass!!!" And the way the story is structured he won't be anything else.

 

Didn't they? I can rewrite facts too. Jar Jar stands up bravely after being a coward most of the film and convinces the Gungans to help fight off the Trade Federation; a moment especially engaging because Jar Jar was under the threat of death at the time. He then fought in the war and actually destroyed a battle tank!

And I love how Finn getting his ass handed to him by Kylo Ren is supposed to be something I'm supposed to enjoy.

You wanna know my thoughts watching TFA?

Hey this opening scene is pretty cool. Ah so I guess that trooper is Finn. Oh maybe he's feeling the pain and panic through the Force and that's what's gonna get him to leave the FO.

(twenty minutes later)

Okay I guess Finn isn't the Jedi. That's fine. Lando wasn't a jedi. Han wasn't a jedi. Maybe he'll be like Xander, or Giles. No magic powers but still able to stand up and take part.

(ten minutes later)

Okay they're really pushing this "lets turn Finn into a joke" thing.

(ten minutes later)

OH MY Maclunkey GOD!

(twenty minutes later)

I get that Rey is supposed to be the lead but why is she better than everyone? Finn is a failure, Han failed as a husband and father, Leia failed as a wife and mother, Luke failed as a teacher. Do we really need her to be the only one who actually succeeds?

(ten minutes later)

Okay, why did they make Finn lose his gun?

(two minutes later: Finn getting his ass kicked by TR-8R)

Oh that's why. Yeah, makes sense, Finn is a punk in this movie.

(ten minutes later)

That Rey/Ren scene had no tension whatsoever.

(ten minutes later)

Really. Not only have you made Finn a janitor, now it turns out he was selfishly lying about knowing how to help and he's endangered millions? Oh and we're laughing at him again, great.

(end of movie)

So, not only did Finn toss away his weapon for no reason in that fight against Ren, but he picked up the lightsaber just so that we could see him get punked while wielding it again? Why do that? Oh yeah, because it makes Rey look better by comparison. Why the hell is she on Luke's island by herself? Why is she even on Luke's island? This is a woman with severe abandonment issues leaving her only friend in the world in the hospital to go on a mission that isn't even close to being time sensitive. What is this?

Oh, it's the two hour nostalgia fest that I knew it was going to be, until the trailers and various interviews tricked me into thinking the movie was going to be about something and that I might get the cool black jedi I wanted Sam L Jackson to be. Funny how marketing works.

People -- especially the people who think Finn is going to be Force Sensitive in future instalments -- really need to understand his narrative role so that they don't get their hopes up. He's not a hero. He's not somebody that you're even going to care about much. He's the guy who alternates between failing at everything the real heroes do so that the heroes can look even better by comparison, and the guy who stares wide-eyed at the heroes, worshipping at their altar, happy to be blessed by the presence.

 

Another classic meeting, I hope to see.

 

I like how @Venamin used this image as a base for his art.

 

Aw I didn't realise this was a edited pic, still cool the way they switched up the characters.

 

It wasn't edited, rather he based his piece on the McQuarrie concept art.

 

I see, my mistake. I expect a second meeting between two, Finn will want payback

 

Ouch that's gotta hurt.