Official Finn Episode VIII thread

i'm saying the characters get hosed in the story by each other. not by the writer.
probably a bad application of the word, but that's what i meant.

there's no contradiction in my statement. everything is certainly open for critique, but the argument (for example) that Finn should have been FS, is based on what? nothing. that's not the story. that's someone's wish fulfillment. i wish Ben had left the FO in TLJ. he didn't. that's utterly disappointing, but it's not a "flaw" in the movie. i consider Finn's adventure in Canto Bight a potential flaw in the movie because the character of Rose is literally extraneous. we didn't need her to tell the story we got (as opposed to the one in my head). that's the difference.

also, the Luke argument is pointless. i don't personally care about Luke right now.
he's dead and was never meant to be the focus of the ST. Finn is the future.

 

Fair enough, I know what I think as well, and I think some will agree and/or see what I have provided as evidence that supports that belief. I think the "Rebel Scum" call out was meant to be a signature moment (which is why they invoke out-of-Episode references) and I don't think it lands at all (for the reasons I named). TLJ has signature moments (all of the Episodic movies do), Finn saying "Rebel Scum" just isn't one of them. You named a few yourself that are moments that, whether you hated the movie, or loved it will be remembered years from now. The hyperspace attack, Luke's hologram duel. We'll be talking about those in the future, Finn's Rebel Scum? I'm guessing not.

Speaking for myself here, I am not confused or disappointed with Kylo Ren so much. There is a different approach that I would have preferred true, and to me he lacked menace but his arc isn't destroyed. I didn't particularly care for Rey's arc being made a function of Kylo's and Luke's story (I think it takes away from her hero's journey). You can anticipate certain things happening that don't pan out that doesn't ultimately ruin the experience.

I think where Kylo and Fin differ (in TLJ at least) is that problems with Kylo probably can be attributed solely to preference, with Finn it could preference, writing, and/or actual storytelling. Kylo doesn't lack meaningful development, his story is what it looks like when you focus on making a good story. Finn's story in TLJ is what it looks like when you don't know what to do with the character but you have to find something for them to do. My opinion of course.

I might be the only self-avowed Finn fan that doesn't hate Rose. My problem is not with her character, it's with the role that she played in determining Finn's fate... repeatedly. If Rose was merely a catalyst for Finn to self-interrogate his beliefs and world view it would've worked just as well as if Poe was there. If all Finn was going to do was join the Resistance, he could have at least done it based on his life experience.

Your previous statement had the feel of suggesting I had an agenda, that I was arguing for head canon under academic cover. After TFA I said I wanted a FS reveal, before TLJ premiered I had abandoned it. My only hope was that Finn would be relevant, and he wasn't. "Lesser Finn" is something we attribute to people who's principal contribution to Finn's thread is to shoot down any speculation (particularly if it improves Finn's standing and stature resulting in a Lesser Finn)

The types of training and the types of powers hasn't always been consistent, but one preceding the other I think has been. Ren turning on the LS from a distance (to my mind) presents no problem. LS is push button technology right? What's the issue? The same telekinesis that brought the LS to Rey's hand can hit the button to ignite it. I don't get the argument there (by whoever is making it). I do think there is however a difference between sensing where a blaster round is coming (PT showed how common a practice it was to deflect rounds with a LS) vs lifting very heavy objects. We only see Masters do it in movies (Yoda, Dookou, Sidious). If we expand that conversation to non-canon sources we see others do it who might not be considred masters (i.e. Galen Marek) but he is still trained.

Yes I agree he was (sidelined). And there are people who don't believe he was sidelined at all, and they have not addressed your assertion once. This point in particular that I'm making right now isn't about who isn't posting in the thread because they think it's negative, it's about you making an argument that we have made and it hasn't been refuted, but it is when we say it. Again, not a critique aimed at you.

As far as the rest, I believe (in general) people talk about the things that interest them - period. You can see my avi, it's a tribute to Finn. That's my favorite character. I will absolutely talk about other things as well, but I'm definitely going to talk about Finn. Perhaps there's an explanation for a person here or there that speaks to why they don't post in this thread, but by and large, the same people who I have seen be maligned as negative, are the same people I saw have hope for Finn in TLJ, who offered conversation about what could be next, who have pushed discussion forward in the years between TFA and TLJ. They are the same people I have watched since 2016 discuss ways to enhance Finn, to see him move forward, to see him advance and become better, autonomous, and meaningful. I don't think any of them are disappointed that Finn isn't the main topic, I think what rankles them (and me to be frank) is the assertion that Finn has had nothing but a stellar arc, that he doesn't need any improvement, that there were no issues with his development, that he has an enormous fan base as proof that nothing's wrong, and that anyone who feels there's a problem with Finn's handling arrives at this state due to unwarranted investment in their own head canon.

I'm not at all arguing that anyone had to be a particular fan of any particular character; no one HAS to be a Finn fan. I am because I am. If Rey is a person's favorite character or if Luke is, or Yoda, or Kylo, or Maul or whoever, I think that's fine. My aim isn't about increasing Finn's fan base. I am just confident that some of the people saying they are fans are using it as a pretext; I have seen this sort of weaponized argumentation deployed before (in other situations and on other topics - and I try my best to never afford it a soft landing whenever I encounter it)

The cool stuff would be nice. I wouldn't have had a qualm with Rose having some cool stuff and Phasma as well. Where I take the most issue is that Finn didn't do anything with relevance or coherence (from a human perspective and a franchise perspective). He goes to Canto Bight replete with people neither aligned to the FO or the Resistance, and sees suffering - and so what? We know Finn already knows about suffering he is a child soldier. He was at the Jakku massacre. We also know that neither the Jedi or the Republic are necessarily dedicated to eradicating injustice, they're dedicated to peace. When Qui Gon first found Anakin he was a slave. The Jedi did not end slavery in the galaxy, and Qui Gon didn't free everyone he found, he just came for Anakin. The Republic and the Jedi are perfectly capable of allowing injustice to stand. And based on the timing between TFA and TLJ we can be reasonably sure that Catonica and Canto Bight exist during the day of the New Republic (and their splinter group the Resistance). The Resistance doesn't rise to stop injustice, it rises to confront the threat of the FO. The suffering on Canto Bight would continue on unabated either way. So why should Finn choose the Resistance based on anything he saw on Canto Bight? Why should he choose the Resistance when the Resistance and it's predecessors have NOT been dedicated to eradicating injustice when injustice is the thing that seems to be Finn's hot button? The argument might be, well Rose influences him, which brings me to what I've said earlier, he doesn't have his own reasons for joining the Resistance, he has Rose's. That for me is a problem. I'm not even talking LS or blasters or fight sequence, I'm just talking basic character coherence. I felt like we didn't get any real advancement of Finn from where he left off in TFA. Han's obsession with Leia didn't hurt his development but I guess we're saying Finn continuing to be around Rey would hurt him? I'm trying to figure out how being with Rey could have been worse given what we got in TLJ.

I don't think I ever recall seeing you in this Finn thread (I could be wrong, there's a lot of posts, and it's been awhile it would be easy to forget). I always just thought you were a Kylo fan because I saw you post almost exclusively in there. Every character has it's fans, and to also be clear you don't have to be a Finn fan to post about him in this thread. You just can't claim fandom as a shield for arguing for less relevance, visibility, coherence, autonomy, and/or stature.

Hux would require a ret con in order to do what you're suggesting (in my view). I actually thought he was the more menacing of the two (between Kylo and Hux) in TFA. His SKB speech was chilling (but I think it goes overlooked). I initially laughed at Hux in TLJ, which apparently was their design, but the more I thought about the movie and TFA, I just felt that writing him as a joke, was a disservice to the character. It took away the one important thing he had, a person to be reckoned with. He does feel like a joke. If he was out for blood why would you be concerned? In TLJ he was more bark than bite, he's no threat (to me).

I don't think Luke is identifying Finn as anything. He doesn't know him at all in this movie, they never meet. I think Rian uses Luke's dialogue to say he (Rian ) identified Finn as soldier. If JJ decides to throw that bit of foreshadowing to the scrap heap and turns Finn into something else, then once again we will be dealing with metadata not being passed forward and built upon (and hell, at this point maybe it would be worth disconnection, I don't know). All I know is that I didn't like TLJ disregarding TFA. It's not going to be any more pleasant if EPIX disregards TLJ (even though I disliked TLJ).

I thought we all identified with the Force Sensitive People since it was and is a central component to the Star Wars saga. I have learned that some people really loved Han, but until and unless there is a leveling of the playing field where FS and non-FS can fight shoulder to shoulder, and fight against one another, there will always be a de facto classism that exists in the SW universe, and the subsequent writing of future stories. Just my opinion.

 

it's hard for me to say anything about this because i don't judge characters based on "signature moments" perhaps. but i will readily admit that i am probably the exception to many rules where concerns this fandom. my favorite "new" character in ROTJ was Ackbar, so what do i really know?

see, and i think that's not true in TFA, whereas a lot of people were already claiming it (and still claim it). i think Finn has an incredible arc in TFA; the problem with Johnson is that he didn't really further it in a truly significant way. Finn's journey in TLJ is just a ripple/reiteration of his journey in TFA except that now he's fully committed to the Rebellion. that's not enough. it's similar to Poe's journey in TLJ, but i would consider Poe a support character whereas Finn should have had a stronger agency.

i absolutely don't hate Rose at all. i like her very much as a character, i just think we didn't need her (same as you!). i couldn't agree more that she catalyzes Finn in a way that would have much better come from Poe's influence. and her "newness" frankly steals attention from some of Finn's best moments (like him confronting DJ about the medallion, which i absolutely love. but somehow that gets subsumed into a thing between Rose and DJ instead of it being more clearly provoked/instigated by Finn).

feh. no, that's not what i meant at all. though i do have a more sanguine opinion of Finn's relevance. but i think we agree on that.

i honestly just can't even go here. the Force stuff just bores the crap out of me, sorry ~ hahahahaha
i will concede that obviously a lot of people agree that Rey's powers are "problematic". i guess i just don't care because to me the story's not about that.

again, i can understand that frustration, but i do absolutely disagree that Finn's role in TFA was anything but stellar. he drove everything: Rey leaving Jakku, leading her rescue, defending her against Ren. TFA absolutely was his and Rey's story, with a slice of Han on the side. perhaps in the same way that TLJ was Rey and Ren's story with a slice of Luke on the side. i don't know. rather than lament that Finn wasn't as well-used as i would have hoped, i try to determine whether it's all just one big balancing act of which we are in the middle. i still see Finn carrying the torch from the ST. Rey may have the magic powers, but i seriously don't see her taking the leadership in this story. she's going to be embroiled with Ren Ben and their FS nonsense.

i don't think Finn is incoherent in TLJ. like i said above, i just think he's going through a reiteration that's not very strong. i don't know what you mean about Finn being around Rey; because she's FS and he's not? i'm not following this quite.

i stop in every now and then to post a nice picture or try to say something positive. but where in the other threads you can get a discussion going about: "hey, isn't that crap job Poe did on fixing his jacket kind of an awesome little detail?", here no one seems to want to talk about anything except how crummy the character has been treated and speculate as to why. i'm making a generalization, of course, but it does dominate and that's the ongoing frustration.

i take a far less dim view of Hux than you do. might be because i feel like i have a strong sense of his obsession through the EU? or maybe i just see dots to string together: his hatred of Ren, his lack of fear of Ren, his determination to be emperor, his fanaticism, etc.

i don't mean literally. i mean the deliberate juxtaposition at the ending of Luke's lines with the characters of Finn, Poe, and Rey. is it a meta read? sure of course because it's not explicit, but i think it's a fair meta read and it's one that i like and am hopeful about.

well i can't disagree with that judging by what i've seen on these forums. it surprises me, though, because i grew up on Star Wars and as kids we absolutely went nuts for everything but the Force stuff. i mean, it's cool and all, and i like it in small doses, but no, we grew up feeling like Luke, Han, and Leia were all equal heroes (and poor Chewie!). but that's just my experience. to me the story isn't about "powers", it's about people. and it always will be.

 

Agree. I was less enthusiastic about Finn than you were in TFA (the bait and switch was just too off putting for me to love it) but it was a decent starting point.

As long as Finn was making decisions based on his own self-interrogation, I honestly wouldn't care who was there with him, it could be Rose, it could be Poe, I wouldn't mind either. Good point about the medallion

I think you are probably the exception and not the norm when it comes to SW, most people are brought in by the Force Users. R1 proved to me that a decent SW movie could be put together without a Force User as the lead, but it only appears to work when there are no Force Users at all. So whereas I really, really, did not enjoy TLJ, I won't be boycotting Solo. But I have heard of people who will (as well as EPIX). I'm honestly amazed at how polarizing TLJ is. I never thought I would live to see the day when I wouldn't be excited to see a SW movie, let alone that there would be one that I dislike so intensely.

Finn was certainly relevant in TFA, I don't take that to mean his story was stellar (it wasn't to me), but at least there was an arc. It was apparently so enjoyable Rian decided to do it again. It's possible it was a balancing act that caused the shift in focus, but it's equally possible (and in my mind, more likely) that it was really just a function of one person's vision of what was the story. As I understand it, none of the treatment that JJ wrote for Ep 8 was used by Rian (don't know how true that is or if it's an accurate take). I wonder if it would have improved things if there is any truth to it.

I'm not trying to say Finn himself is incoherent, just the actions he takes because the writer just dropped the ball when it came to making that part of the story work. It's not an easy task, but it's also not impossible, there just has to be a will to do it which I theorize wasn't there.

 

i feel like inserting a DJ "maybe" gif here. XD

i actually didn't like R1 the first time i saw it, but probably because of the fan service in it. now i love it and just accept that it was always going to be a part of the first non-saga story. the fan stuff is not for me, but i won't begrudge it to others. also, i adore Baze and Chirrut (which is slightly ironic since Chirrut is the closest we have to a FS person in that film). but he's not. if only all the movies were this subtle with their magical silliness. : o p

sorry you're feeling down on the franchise; i remember the dark days of the PT, so i can relate.

i don't bother myself about "could have been". TLJ is what we have to work with going forward, love it or hate it. i love it more than hate it and i do hope it was a matter of a balancing act that needed to happen. i don't disagree that Finn could have and should have had a stronger role. but if this story does end up being about Rey and Ren Ben balancing the Force, it would be just as easy to say: well TFA should have had more Ren in it. he's got like 12 minutes of screen time, i think. and lots of people complained that he killed Han out of the blue without any development of their relationship (i disagree, but there is that perception). i still really hope TLJ is Finn's "rest period". i want to see Leia "retire" to the Outer Rim, Poe take command of the Rebellion, and deploy Rey and Finn against the FO (which i really hope is a crumbling mess of infighting). i am still hoping Finn leads a stormtrooper rescue operation. if anything, it's Rey who's going to have a repeat journey as she goes to either confront or save Ben a second (third?) time and finally succeeds.

and even though i have a feeling Phasma is like the cockroach of this ST, i do hope she's dead. XD

again, maybe not. Johnson clearly had other stronger objectives and that's unfortunate for the moment, but the fat lady distinctly did not have a chance to sing on Canto Bight, so i'm okay with Abrams picking up the opening themes again. to me this is a trilogy. it's really hard to judge whole character arcs from just two movies.

 

Before I began I would just like to put a disclaimer that I am a first time poster, and all that I am about to post is just my opinion not meant to supersede and or attempt to speak for everyone or anyone else. I am avid star wars fan, and Finn fan.

I think I can bring a fresh prospective (not a shot at anyone, I love this thread) as someone who has only watched as a non member since 2016, but followed rumblings about the force awakens since 2015. I've seen these threads on Finn be locked, unlocked, restarted and etc. I've seen some vitriol, at times ugly, and passionate discourse. I think soberly our expectations for The Force Awakens was beautiful. Let's just think back to that for a moment putting behind us everything we know now. Think about how excited(assuming of course) we we're to see Star Wars return especially since Revenge Of The Sith and it's counterparts which seem widely criticized. Which I understand though Revenge Of The Sith will always hold a special place for me as it was my first film I saw of star wars as a fifth grader in 2005 when I saw it, and it's actually my favorite film of the star wars saga. (Guilty pleasure?)

I say all that because I think all of us care such a great deal about Star Wars. And This all of course started with it coming back in The Force Awakens. We lived (Of course again general assumption here) for the news, trailers, every talk show they visited, every interview, behind the story feature, the app they rolled out around this time, it seemed star wars was BACK in a new and BETTER way. I mean who remembers the trailer the first time that it dropped during Monday night football halftime if I'm not mistaken. Luke's words. FINN taking off the helmet. LUKE touching R2-D2, REY in the sand dunes, KYLO AS THE BEAM PASSED HIS MASK, JOHN WILLIAMS MOVING SCORE! I damn near cried.

Where Finn comes in is that he was a large of our hope for THAT new journey. Something different. I remember the speculation, 2016. Was he a super soldier, would he have a Kyle Katarn arc, Lando's son, Mace Windu's Son, Luke's, lost child of the force? As a man of color, a black man, it excited me to see someone who looked like me possible have such gravitas. And I think for a lot of people this level of speculation, and ability to do so was amazing. These 'children' of the new saga. Rey Finn and Poe. And how the force in some way has awakened in all of them. Finn by fate. Rey outright (I think we all guessed she was force sensitive even before TFA) and Poe through piloting/leadership. All called to answer the will of the force and it's journey in some way. Majority of Finn's marketing from trailers, to shorts, to promotional material, toys, advertisement had him with that blue legacy Skywalker lightsaber. So while of course that never guaranteed he's force sensitive, or saying he has to be, or even that they meant the bait and switch purposely it set our expectations up (Again not everyone) for him to take that journey. And it would have been one we had not seen. Compiled with Rey and the two of them together, their chemistry and there such an excitement.

Fast forward to TFA being out for a while, there was already criticism of Finn which I think we're all aware of so I won't detail the 800 hundred pages of the pass nearly three years. But I think I speak for some of us when I say this comes down to the Finn we felt set up to get, and the story overall seems like it was completely and suddenly abandoned without reason in The Last Jedi. And that's hard to reconcile. It's all uncomfortable because maybe for the first time we don't know what will happen to star wars. People thought the prequels we're bad but they we're excited to give star wars another shot and wanted to, but now this world we love seems at risk. Characters we don't feel we can recognize (Luke/Leia) compiled with characters we don't understand why we lost (Han). It seems there's no plan, no overarching story, no continuum. No journey to get lost in. This larger than life place somewhere far far away feels...mortal. Some of of us are lost, disappointed, let down, confused, and feel emotional because we do feel this way not just about Finn about the saga in general. I guess what I'm trying to say and I do apologize for the long post is that we waited so long for the savior and return of that next great foray into Star Wars, and do we feel like we ever truly got it?

I think Finn is a great microcosm for that. We waited, and never got. Could our expectations be insurmountable as the sequels and the beautiful nostalgia set up? Sure.

But I think it's that feeling of something being off, unfinished, not fully there that has some of us so confused. We don't feel like we have a direction. With Finn, other characters, the saga, the franchise in general, and that for a beloved franchise is real and emotional. I think we're all saying the say thing maybe. Four years since the new saga begun, two movies, several books, etc. but really what the hell do we have?

I don't want us to lose our love for Star Wars. I write this saying I think we're all on the same team just with different words trying to find a fix not just for Finn, but for the thing we loved since childhood that we're watching on a cliff.

 

welcome to the Cantina and thank you for such a thoughtful first post!

thank you also for recognizing your generalizations when you make them.
i don't feel as dimly that SW is on some kind of precipice. i don't think, honestly, anything needs fixing.
i do feel like the ST was written to my own hopes and dreams after the crushing disappointment of the PT.
and if i learned anything from going through that experience, it was not to bank on expectations.
maybe especially with Star Wars.

i feel extraordinarily blessed that the ST won me back, that i love these new characters, and that we have something richer and more amazing than ever to work with in this galaxy far far away: most especially the hope of expanding possibilities, which is not something we had 30 years ago when the OT was done, nor 20 years ago when many of us felt like the PT buried it.

i also appreciate that not everyone is experiencing this renaissance and i'm only sorry for that.
yes, i want more for Finn. yes, the ST is unfinished.
it could still go horrifically wrong.
but why spend energy fretting on that instead of hoping for something amazing.
is Star Wars ultimately not about hope?

 

I think that's part of what drives the angst in this thread. Despite the parts that we didn't like about Finn in TFA we had hope.

I don't now.

There's no reason why Finn couldn't repeat his arc in TLJ in EPIX and/or be similarly removed from relevance. It all depends on the will of the writers and directors. If they feel the story that is most worth taking is the rubber match between Kylo and Rey, then that's what we'll get. It is difficult to hope when you haven't been given much to hope for.

 

i can't allow hope to be depletable resource for me.
ix could still destroy this for me, so i'm not saying i'll love it no matter what.

but for now, i'm still optimistic and i intend to stay that way.
i honestly think Rey and Ren's story is mostly done.
they'll either stand together or the whole thing will collapse lacking the necessary balance.
i'm more interested in how the other characters play their part in that balance too.

if Rey and Ren can't reconcile will it be up to the "nulls" to put the galaxy to rights.
if Rey and Ben so reconcile, that's la di da great for the Force, but what about the FO and mess they've created?

someone has to take charge and lead everything forward.
that's not going to be the FS people, i don't think.

 

FS people have always have been the leads of the galactic factions. Whether it was Sidious, Snoke, or Leia... it's always been Force Users; impossible to untangle them from the equation.

And I don't see how Rey and Ren's story could be over since they are the principal Force Users left. Are we just going to repeat the Throne Room scene with Rey and Ren against the KOR?

 

i agree they'll always be in the equation somehow, but i don't see them in leadership going forward. Sidious was certainly a Force user and emperor, but the head of the Republic was not. Leia wasn't a Jedi and didn't use powers and she was a senator, but never in control of the whole affair. Luke eschewed politics entirely.

seems like the governance of the galaxy has generally fallen to non-FS more often than not?
but maybe i have a skewed take? what do i know; i don't pay much attention to the FS people in SW. : o p

yeah, but with more kissing (totally kidding!!!) XD

what i mean is that they've had their crucible.
the only thing left to happen between them is for one to kill the other or Ben to capitulate.
for me, that's just connecting necessary dots.

the state of the galaxy is where the story is at now: who wins, who rules. and i personally highly doubt it will be Ren or Rey because part of the message of Star Wars (and the Jedi) is that Force power corrupts; it must be used responsibly, and only to serve (not lead).
Luke knew this after ROTJ. Rey will take up his path and Ben will either follow or die.

obviously i'm just conjecturing. this, to me, seems to be the arrow Lucasfilm painted in twenty foot flames with this trilogy.
i could be way off base. so far my track record with predicting what'll happen has been middling to good. : D

 

Nothing makes sense anymore. The definition for the force has changed, and when Boyega said there was only enough space in these films for two force users it means we are going to get the same story over and over.

 

I would have liked more perspective from the actual fighters instead of 'breeze on by' force users.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but if we're gonna be completely honest, FS finn isn't just wish fulfillment. Many fans wished leia had eventually trained and became a jedi. That wasn't just wish fulfillment. That was something that came about due to her linage and relation to luke skywalker. If they weren't twins, I doubt anyone would've pined for leia to use the force. FS finn comes from the aggressive marketing for TFA. FS finn was something that was hinted at by the story tellers/marketing team. Its also a little puzzling to degrade luke as if he is just a throw away character. "He was never meant to be the focus of the ST.", yet TFA literally opens with "LUKE SKYWALKER HAS VANISHED". The entire goal of the rebels thus far has been to find luke and bring him home. I'd say he was meant to be a pretty big focus, even if they botched the hell out of it.

 

well i never pined for Leia to use the Force, so i can't relate.
and not once during TFA did i ever think the ST story was actually about Luke (and it's not).

i accept that i may be the exception to a lot of rules, but at the end of the day, we all have to take responsibility for our assumptions and expectations.
if Ben dies in the dark, that's not Lucasfilm ruining my life, that's me dealing with my own personal disappointment purely manufactured out of mere hope.

hope is not a bad thing.
but it's not a sure thing either.

i hope Finn rises to expectations. he didn't disappoint me at all in TFA, and i still loved him in TLJ even though i felt like he wasn't given his due.
there's still another movie and i still feel like there's a good chance Abrams will bring him back to the fore.

 

Just of curiosity, if that doesn't happen (and I'm not saying it will or won't, just a hypothetical) - then what? Will it be said that we had unrealistic expectations from EPIX and the trilogy overall for Finn? Would you, personally, accept such a characterization? Again, a hypothetical, so no wrong answers.

 

if Finn isn't awesome in ix, i will personally be disappointed in that.

of course, we all have our own definition of awesome.
if Luke had dropped a star destroyer out of the sky or had a major rampaging light saber battle with Kylo Ren, lots of people would have probably thought that was "awesome". i would have probably hated it with every fiber of my being ~ it's completely antithetical to my own definition of what makes SW great.

if Finn takes charge and becomes the great Rebel leader: he inspires an insurrection, blows up Starkiller 2.0, whatever the case may be, i'll be happy.
i'll be especially happy if the implication is that we'll get future stories with Finn at the helm.

i'm honestly okay with everyone but Finn and Ben dying in the ST.

 

Just talked to one of my Star Wars general audience type friends.

She said to me the biggest reason she hated the Finn infiltration storyline is because Rogue One had just pulled it off a year before and did it successfully (complete the mission).

While Finn, and Rose fail and fail hard.

She wouldn't be so hard on them not being able to stop the tracker, if Jyn and Cassian hadn't pulled it off and looked cooler doing it just a year before.

Like, if it was the first time we've seen a Star Wars infiltration in the modern era and it failed, is one thing. But that the Rogue One guys' pulled it off in a movie that just came out, makes Finn and Rose look terrible. Like Disney LucasFilm is sending mixed signals.

Plus, why even have it if Rogue One did it better.

That was her opinion. Do you think she's right.

 

of course, we all have our own definition of awesome.
if Luke had dropped a star destroyer out of the sky or had a major rampaging light saber battle with Kylo Ren, lots of people would have probably thought that was "awesome". i would have probably hated it with every fiber of my being ~ it's completely antithetical to my own definition of what makes SW great.[qupte]

*Raises hand*

If Luke had pulled down a Star Destroyer with the Force I might have been able to forgive the rest. Or if he showed up as hologram and then further used the Force to knock over the MegaWalkers, yep, I would have said despite what I didn't like about it, they gave him a send off I could tolerate.

Poe is going to be the Rebel leader. No more Star Killer Bases please. Insurrection is something that will be rushed if they try to do it now (IMO).

If Kylo dies, who is the Big Bad? If Rey dies who is the Jedi? I think Rose is going to be a Lando like character. She can't simply be Finn's conscious from here on out; it would hurt both characters. Finn? I absolutely hope he lives but has a purpose of his own and a relevant destiny of his own that isn't repetitive.

 

exactly. huge fundamental difference in out povs. and a completely irreconcilable one.
the same is probably true how we see Finn (or will in the end).

i think Poe may buy the farm. i hope he doesn't, but to quote a certain nerf-herder, i have a bad feeling about this.

if they both live, Ben and Rey will not be part of the equation in the aftermath of this.
i sincerely believe both of them will vanish off into the Outer Rim or off on some other agenda post-ST.
if they remain behind to help rebuild the galaxy, i will be very surprised to be honest.

i honestly hope Rose gets back-seated and Abrams brings back Snap and Jess.
not because i hate Rose, but yeah, i don't see where she fits in except as Finn's new buddy sidekick, which i guess i can tolerate. : o p

ultimately it's been repetitive and it's going to go on being repetitive no matter what.
the whole saga is basically a space western, the likes of which has been done to death repeatedly for well over a century.
yes, you can fine tune lots of aspects/scenarios, etc.
but the story of good vs. bad, protecting the "little people", and wrangling with power and righteousness is older'n dirt.