Official Finn Episode VIII thread

I don't think some fans realized Finn never had a chance at disabling that laser ram; we can see separate shots of the ship literally melting. There is a lot in TLJ that is easily missed. For example, I always made and argument as to how Rey was able to swim, but watching the scene again; she doesn't swim, she flails around until she grabs on to something. I totally saw the scene in a different light; I think fans that hate Rose Tico should watch the film again, i missed so much because I was pissed off about a scene I saw 20 minutes earlier, that kind of thing.

 

I watched it the other day on Netflix, and it's worse. Kylo never answers Rey when she asks why he killed his father. He changed the subject, and it was never touched upon again. Rian made Rey's character look real stupid. When Luke left Degobah it was to help save his friends. Rey and Kylo aren't friends, so why is she going to him? Her having discussions with Kylo about feeling alone was ridiculous. There is a guy who just woke up out of a coma trying to save you, but you feel alone? And Finn is sitting around waiting for some girl who may or may not come back. What Rey did while Finn was under is unforgivable.

Then Rian writes Rose for one purpose only. She will convince him what he should do with his life. Not him making the decision for himself. No. He must be guided, because even though he was mentally strong enough to reject the FO programming he isn't capable of making decisions for himself. That's how Rian wrote Finn, and one of the reasons why Rose is hated. Did she do any engineering? You know... Her actual job. She didn't do anything exciting or memorable in a good way. None of the characters did.

 

This is a better explanation of how Rose serves Finn's storyline. Just as Luke, Leia, Holdo, Kylo serves others.

 

The author of this video forgot to mention that the director created this wish list for the characters that weren't there before. Rian wanted to create a character flaw within Poe, but it wasn't logical, and it made for boring story telling. The only thing I would accuse Poe of is overconfidence. Finn wanted Rey safe. She was safe,so there was no need for Finn to stay with the Resistance. Rian wanted to hold onto the idea that Finn wanted to forever protect Rey even though he knew she could protect herself. If Finn would have kept with his original plan from TFA he would have left. Not stay and wait around for lord knows how long. Finn was right when he said fighting the FO is suicide. The Resistance is bare bones, so why would he stay when we know he wanted to escape to the outer rim? What's changed?

 

Finn's arc in TFA starting from the firing of Starkiller to the end of the movie is the same as it is in TLJ. The only real difference is in the surrounding aesthetic. They're identical in that he helps the Resistance and Rey at the same time but he's not a Resistance member. Now based on these facts I have a few questions:
1. Why does the narrative frame Finn helping the Resistance in this way as a problem? Why is Finn joining the Resistance framed as the only way in which he can fight the First Order?
2. At what point in TLJ (Only saw it once) does Finn become so radicalized hat he's willing to die for the Resistance? I ask this question because, to me, radicalization does not fit with Finn's personality at all. Is Finn's inability to be radicalized not part of the reason he left the First Order even though they literally tried to brainwash him into it his entire life? Also, he clearly was not a member of the Resistance at the beginning of TLJ so why the extreme change?
3. I've asked why it's important that Finn in particular joins the Resistance. But since I haven't gotten an answer yet, I'm going to approach it from a different angle by asking it in another way. What changes for the Resistance if Finn in particular doesn't join? Keep in mind that Finn not joining the Resistance does not equate to him helping the First Order.

Before anyone answers, keep in mind that I'm well aware of the symbolism of DJ and Rose and I get what the intention was by Rian Johnson. So with that being said, I want to know the 'why' not the 'how'.

 

1. Because Finn has no possessions, no currency and no way to move about the galaxy individually. In TFA, if he wasn't piggy backing off of Han, he was piggybacking off of Rey. Han's gone now, and Rey is halfway across the galaxy. That leaves the Resistance as a means to fight the FO.

2.when he saw that DJ sold them out and caused all those Resistance deaths. If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything. Little convincing was involved with DJ selling out everyone else to save his own skin. Finn already heard DJ's philosophy of "it's all a machine. Live free, don't join." And look what DJ ended up doing. Finn saw this guy with no morality and didn't like the outcome of that. So Finn decides to make a stand and officially choose a side, rather than be seen as a selfish prick like DJ. It has to do with Finn choosing a moral compass over pure self interest.

3.Nothing for the Resistance. But then Finn would be out of the story. This isn't like Civil War, where Black Panther didn't officially join the Avengers, but now we get to see him in his own individual film in his nation of Wakanda. There ain't gonna be a Finn spinoff focusing on just him. If Finn leaves the Resistance vs FO war, then he leaves the story and we never see him again. Poe's already dedicated. Rey is seeking understanding of her powers through Luke and the way of the Jedi. That leaves Finn having to deciding how he fits into the story.

 

That's still either one or the other. I think a three part story could have handled that much better if they wanted to. Finn was very much apart of everything in TFA. The need to place him as a soldier makes his story unnecessary. Which forces the entire audience to look to Rey or Kylo for significance with the story. Thing is there story isn't interesting, because there is nothing new about it. The characters are given everything without any effort, so why would I want to follow them? What are we suppose to be interested in when it comes to Rey? Same for Kylo? Finn's story would have given this whole trilogy a fresh perspective. Now all we will get is the same old same old. Bringing back or constantly mentioning old characters does not make a story. It's nostalgia, and that fades real fast. Can you honestly say this story as is, is a must see?

 

See this is what I was getting at with question 1 which I guess I should have presented more clearly. The question is not about the logistics of Finn fighting the First Order as another poster seems to think it was. I'm not asking how he would fight the First Order without the Resistance. It's about the implied relationship between not being a member of the Resistance and being in cahoots with the First Order. That is how the narrative treats Finn in this film, it's either he's part of the Resistance or he's automatically fated to either be in support of the First Order or play both sides for his own game. Why can't he be under his own rule while still opposing the First Order? That's what I'm getting at.

Let me give a real-world example: Most people are not a part of their respective country's military systems. Does that automatically mean that those people are in support of their countries being invaded and colonized?

Let me give an analogy of what I'm getting at in regards to Finn's autonomy as a warrior being equated to supporting the First Order: Let's say there's an alien invasion and us humans have no choice but to fight said aliens. Let's also say that those aliens had previously abducted everyone in this thread experimented on us giving us powers and trained us in their advanced combat techniques, techniques unknown to any humans. We then escape from them and make it back to our respective countries. None of us are a part of our country's military system so we're not under their rule because in this hypothetical situation, they can't legally force any of us to join them. Now each one of our countries of origin's military system wage war against these aliens. We also fight the aliens, but on our own accord in the way we want to. We're not looking for medals or any accolades or rewards so there's no reason for us to join them at all. We kick all kinds of alien butt and our country's militaries kick all kinds of butt to the point that through our combined efforts we've successfully fended off the invasion. The mutual goal is accomplished.

In this hypothetical situation, does our alien butt-kicking not matter because we're not part of our respective country's military systems?

 

I thought I answered your question.

Finn would no longer be apart of the story if he went his own way.

Finn has nothing to fight against the FO with on his own. He's one dude. And has no alien powers or possessions. But the Resistance can allow him in their ranks.

Since joining the Resistance is his only option to fight the FO. Him leaving the Resistance is turning a blind eye to the FO's gaining power.

You keep bringing up a third option to fight against the FO. But their is no third option in the story.

Your hypothetical scenario has a whole group of people and alien powers. Finn has none of those things.

 

Thanks to writers who can only come up with an idea for a soldier. Finn is a lead. The story is suppose to be written to fit around him. Not him trying to fit into the Resistance. The Resistance isn't the star, and no one cares a lick for it.
The idea of him being one dude goes back to why did we spend an entire movie trying to convince one dude that mops to become a soldier for the other side. Does that sound interesting to you? Why would anyone spend money to see that? Considering where Finn was in TFA, and what you are suggesting do you think you will keep your audience? Remember, many thought he was going to have the force. He was on the cover with a light saber. Do you truly think people would spend money to see a character they thought was force sensitive only to find out he just mopped? Do you want to make money or not?

 

Your reasoning is not supported by any of the movies in Star Wars, as far as I know. The Jedi are not under the rule of the Republic yet they fight the Empire/First Order. Why is it so hard to believe that people with no force powers can have that option as well? The Ewoks weren't a part of the Rebellion yet they fought the Empire on Endor. How do we go from that just 30 years prior to the events of TFA and TLJ to "There's no option to fight the First Order if you aren't a part of the Resistance?" that makes no sense. I'm just going to chalk up your reasoning to an assumption that isn't supported in the movies at all.

The alien powers is not the point of the scenario it's just an analogy to Finn's training in the First Order. Finn is highly trained by the First Order and canonically is above average in capabilities.

But let's remove the powers and replace it with only the advanced training and think about the scenario like that.

Or let's just entirely switch it to us being highly trained martial arts practitioners with high marksmanship training and can get our hands on ammunition because that's a possibility in the real world. In this scenario, we just so happen to be more skilled than our respective military organizations. To the point that we're renowned for our skills, so they know about it and want us to do things their way and go from there.

 

And time and again from blogs to vlogs, Finn, Rose, and Poe have no significance to the story. So this reason just doesn't stick.

At least we would of had Finn thinking for himself.

 

@Corn Cream
The Resistance is Leia's baby. As much as the destroyed New Jedi Order was Luke's (even more so, since they're still alive and ticking). Unlike the Rebellion, Leia built the Resistance from the ground up. And since Leia is a main character in the Star Wars saga, so is The Resistance by association. Everything else you mentioned about mopping and stuff was established from TFA. There's no way around that.

@Trooper212 Ewoks were isolated to one planet. And the Empire were the Invaders, so the Ewoks helped the Rebellion fight them off.
Whatever home planet Finn is originally from, has already been ransacked by the FO. You keep bringing Finn's other options to fight the FO. He doesn't. Finn can't even travel from planet to planet on his own.

Now if you want Finn to become some mercenary on his own. That's fine. But you won't see it in the movies, it would be in some book somewhere. Like I said, the Resistance was created by Leia and thus by extension is important to the ongoing Star Wars narrative. Finn going off on his own wouldn't be. There's not simply enough time in episodic movies to focus on that.

@Bunai It sounds like all of you guys hate the Resistance. Would you have preferred Finn leave with the Crismon Corsair in TFA. Or go with DJ in TLJ.

Like it it not, Finn's a hero who's learned to help out his friends.

I guess you guys would have preferred Luke not go with Obi Wan in ANH, since he would be "thinking for himself." Or not join Leia's invitation "to join the Rebellion and go off with Han."

Or Han himself, leaving without coming back to save Luke at the end.

Look guys. Finn has no Falcon. He has no lightsaber. He has no Force powers. Joining the Resiatnce is his best bet. That's his storyline. Leaving the evil side and joining the good side.

Do you know what Luke, Han, Lando, and Rey's storyline was? Starting off neutral and joining the good guys.

So believe or not, Finn's storyline is new and fresh.

It sounds like most of you would prefer that Finn left the evil side and became neutral. Why would you want Finn to go to Luke, Han, Lando and Rey's starting point?

 

We can all agree on a common enemy, but we don't have to share the same ideology in order to work together. Everyone that's going to help the Resistance in the next movie most likely won't see everything eye to eye. That's what politics is built on. A soldier that was on the other side should have his own way of how he sees things. It would have been nice if he didn't trust the Resistance so easily. He should have some negatives about the Resistance. I'm sure the FO talked about them in a negative light. He doesn't have to believe in it totally, but he could see where they made mistakes.

 

Luke and Finn don't have the same story or upbringing, and Luke wanted to join the Rebellion at the start. Finn didn't leave the First Order to be a hero he left because he couldn't deal with their ideologies and death bringing.

The Resistance has not proven to be "the good guys" and we literally have a character telling us that.

My issue is Rian not given Finn an actual reason to fight against his upbringing. He is forced into doing it without question because that was the only way to move the "plot" along.

 

More like because TFA established he wanted to leave to the FO by any means necessary. Did the Finn in TFA WANT to fight against his upbringing? No, it firmly established he just wanted to leave.

So TLJ had to give Finn a new reason to WANT to fight against the FO.

 

Having Finn share the same ideology as the Resistance means he cannot do anything outside of the Resistance. If the Resistance is shooting FO storm-troopers then he is expected to do the same.

 

Actually Luke wanted to join the Imperical Academy in ANH originally.

Like I said, the Resistance is Leia's baby. She created it. So if you think the Resistance aren't the good guys, you must not think Leia is a good guy either.

 

People won't say it, but the truth is, within all of SW there are a slew of characters and even factions that are neither joined to the Resistance/Rebellion/Republic or the Empire/FO; Mandalorians, Nightsisters, Hutts, Jedi, Sith there's almost too many to name. If you go to expanded material and video games it gets even wider (see the Eternal Empire).

I don't know why it's so difficult to just say: Finn joins the Resistance because that's the limit of what Rian came up with. That's it. There is no in-story reason he has to join the Resistance. Nothing in TFA prescribes or predestines Finn joining. That this is something we can't acknowledge (I think) demonstrates the level of commitment to justify this movie.

 

Because in Finn's origin story he helped Poe Dameron of the Resistance escape and he was grateful to him. (Maybe if Finn helped a Hutt escaped, things would be different. But they wouldn't tie in to Leia).

Finn has no ties to Hutts or Mandalores. Sith are all dead and so are the Nightsisters, by the time of the Sequel Trilogy.

Snoke and Kylo have the Darksiders faction. While Luke and wannabe Rey have the Jedi faction.

TFA prescribed that this isn't a story about Hutts or Mandalores or Nightsisters.

It's about Leia's Resistance fighting the impending Empire remnants, known as the First Order, and hoping Luke, the Last Jedi, will come to their aid in their time of need.

As time goes on, we see how the newbies Rey and Finn, fit into that dynamic.