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Official Finn Episode VIII thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by romall smith, Feb 10, 2016.

?

Finn Force Sensitive in Ep VIII?

  1. He is not / will not be Force Sensitive

    243 vote(s)
    65.1%
  2. He is / will be Force Sensitive

    117 vote(s)
    31.4%
  3. Does not matter he dies in Ep VIII

    13 vote(s)
    3.5%
  1. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Also, why Yoda appeared at that point is explained.

    You may have missed it in Rey and Luke's conversation. Luke cut himself off from the force right after the Kylo incident in the past. Luke only connects to use the force again when he tried to contact Leia and wakes her up from her coma.

    Then he senses something up with Rey and goes to her but where he sees her with Kylo's force connection. Luke wasn't connected to the force before, otherwise he'd see Rey-Kylo connection earlier.

    Right after is when Luke and Rey argue and she leaves. That's when Yoda appears to Luke. He couldn't appear to Luke previously because Luke cut himself off from the force.

    Also, Yoda is being coy in that scene. He burns the tree down, when Luke had a last second change of heart about destroying the Jedi books.

    Yoda says: "There's nothing in there that the girl Rey doesn't already possess." To Luke and the viewers at the time, we think he means that Rey already knows everything.


    Later at the end of the movie, Finn is digging through shelfs and drawers on the Falcon to find Rose a blanket. The viewers then see all the Jedi books in the drawer.

    We learn that Yoda was being tricky. "There's nothing in the tree that Rey doesn't already possess", because Rey had stole the books already, before Luke tried to burn the tree.
     
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  2. BrotherRoyVA

    BrotherRoyVA Rebel General

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    He could have appeared before Luke cut himself off. I wasn't ignoring that fact when I raised that issue. Are we to believe that right after Ben turned Luke immediately cut himself off from the Force and flew to Ach-To? If so, we don't get an indication of that in the movie, we have to assume. Therefore, I assumed there was a period of time before he cut himself off that Yoda, Obi-Wan, et al could've appeared and given him a good talking to.

    I caught there's nothing in there the girl didn't already possess but didn't catch the books at the end cause by then I was a bit over the movie.

    Overall, Crybaby R.J. had what could've been a good idea, but he ruined it with various things. Most of all in my opinion, killing Luke the way he did and turning the man into a shell of himself.

    Edited to add: Talking with you has brought up another apparent inconsistency. Luke cut himself off, how did he know Rey didn't fight the Darkside when he was giving her the first lesson? If he cut himself off he shouldn't be able to sense anything, right? So he was making a guess that she wasn't actually trying to fight it or assuming just because she said it called to me and then he or she said it promised her something? Yet, in that scene, he acts like he senses everything that's going on with her. Then immediately after it is Rey who says she does not sense the Force from Luke?
     
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  3. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    You got it right. Rey herself, described and said out loud she was sensing the dark side and it was pulling her in.

    Luke tells her to pull from it, but Luke can tell just by looking at her that she's drawing to it.

    Keep in mind that Luke already explored all aspects of the island before Rey got there.
     
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  4. BrotherRoyVA

    BrotherRoyVA Rebel General

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    Fair enough Lars, fair enough. I still think it's a bit wonky, but I'll be lenient with that nitpick. This doesn't absolve the mountain of other issues I've listed with the movie.
     
    #8464 BrotherRoyVA, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2018
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  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    You're blaming John Boyega for portraying Finn in a way that you don't like . . . and not J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy?
     
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  6. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    You've hit on most of the major complaints - I see you have already had a discussion with other posters on a few things that you didn't quite have right, but the bulk of what you complained about we have articulated here (and then some). Finn's arc was abysmal but I have also argued that Rey's story was largely hampered by making the focal point of TLJ generating empathy for Kylo. It's like she ends up being a support actress for Kylo and Luke instead of being the actual protagonist. Finn was in the C-plot of the movie, and arguably wasn't even the lead of that plot.

    There are some criticisms that to me are meh as well (for example: the complaints about the Holdo maneuver don't really move me, even though I understand them) there were some that we've made that you haven't (that you might on further analysis), but most of what you listed is common to people who didn't like the film.
     
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  7. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Why did Finn needed Rose to "splain" to him about becoming an official member of the Resistance? Why? Why does he or any other character have to be "a hero"? Why can't Finn choose a path in life for himself - whether it be a good or bad decision? Why does he need Rose to lecture to him like some goddamn child? I don't hate Rose. And I especially don't hate Kelly Marie Tran. The latter was simply portraying how Rian Johnson wanted the character to be portrayed. But I am still angry at Johnson for putting Finn at the receiving end of such condescension.

    Even George Lucas didn't put Han Solo in that position in "A New Hope", when the latter had rejected Luke Skywalker's suggestion that he join the Rebel Alliance.
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    When I find the interview I'll post here. John Boyega said it himself, JJ didn't like when he portrayed a hardened or serious Stormtrooper. JJ felt that it didn't work, so Boyega incorporated some levity or humor to the character and JJ liked that portrayal.

    The rest of my post that you didn't quote outlines that actor Page Kennedy did a similar performance in the film The Meg, so I don't necessarily have a problem with Boyega. I have a problem with black actors portraying black men being stupid and scared to get laughs. It reinforces negative stereotypes. ( I remember no one laughed at Boyega's humor in the theaters I watched TFA. I saw TFA 4 times in different theaters. No one laughed at his comedy. I saw the Meg 2 weeks ago and no one laughed at Page Kennedy's goofy humor as well. It came off as stupid.)

    In TLJ, Boyega falls off the bed to get laughs, no one laughed. it just looks stupid and retarded. Then he walks around with water leaking about like a clown,( they put Luke in a cool tank) and that was distasteful to say the least. Han Solo is cool they would never make him do stupid stuff like that so when people compare Finn to Solo to me thats ridiculous.
     
    #8468 Rogues1138, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  9. Trooper212

    Trooper212 Rebel Official

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    I get what you're saying but I think it's important that we differentiate the character from the actor. John Boyega is not really responsible for those things so much as the writers and director are.
    Speaking of that scene, it's yet another glaring example of Rian Johnson's lack of care for Finn or his story. Kylo gets a whole scene of a droid meticulously treating his superficial scar. Finn on the other hand has his injury, which could have resulted in death, should have resulted in serious trauma and did result in a medically induced coma be treated as nothing more than an opportunity for cheap slapstick humor. I could have respected his role a little more if his wanting to leave was a result of that injury. But of course he can't have any depth added to his role or any personal motivations. So we end up watching that entire scene on Starkiller come to mean absolutely nothing for Finn. He doesn't even get a mention in any of Kylo and Rey's conversations. I tell you all what, it looks like the only work RJ put into Finn's story is to make him completely irrelevant to the events of TFA. Which should have been no small task considering he was the literal foil to Kylo and his plans throughout that entire movie.
     
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  10. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    BINGO.
    Rian had to make sure Finn didn't suffer any setbacks from his fight with Kylo Ren. He had to get rid of it's significance. The first 30 seconds Finn appears on the screen he is the butt of 3 jokes. Problem solved. Nothing special to see here, and no mention of how the injury occured. Not even from Rey. Now Rian could go forward with him being tazered, and dragged around by Rose without any repercussions from his injury. No need for any medication. Everything is all new. Even though we spend the entire movie seeing Kylo's scar. Rey's character doesn't have to feel guilty for communicating and going to the man that put her only friend in a coma.

    Finn wanted to go to the Outer Rim, but Rian wanted to turn Finn into a cuckold. He's hanging around on a ship waiting for Rey who has gone off to see Kylo Ren. Talk about disrespect. Unless she confesses what she did I don't care what her and Finn do going forward. I would prefer they find another woman for Finn altogether or leave all of this innuendo of romance out of this trilogy. The fear of a romance has been this trilogies biggest downfall.
     
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  11. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think that is a big piece of it. Rian literally writes Finn as though none of his development happened in TFA, as though Finn's first introduction into the trilogy is TLJ. The only pieces of metadata from TFA that Rian carries forward was that Finn was unconscious and that he cared about Rey. He ties off those 2 threads almost immediately and we get what shows up on the screen.

    And remember... Rian believes he "strengthened" Finn's character.

    [​IMG]

    The fear of a romance between the two (Rey and Finn) really has been a millstone. There are folks who wanted it and folks who were indifferent to it or ok with it, and then this swath of people who have been conjuring the most ridiculous head canon to try to prevent it. If I had to pick between Finn having a romance with Rey and Finn being given agency and relevance, I would pick the latter 1000 times easily. I suspect that some of the "we must have a normal Finn" argument had some roots in believing the less relevant Finn was the less likely he would have a story arc that included Rey, precluding a chance at romance altogether.

    The romance was never important to me, I'd be fine if none of the leads became an item in-universe. But even the possibility that Finn might have one with Rey definitely caused a tail spin (ironically, no such resistance arose to Tobias Beckett and Val... but maybe that's because folks just didn't go see SOLO).

    *Hunches Shoulders*
     
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  12. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    Great post, I understand what you are saying, most directors like JJ change the script as the filming progresses. One reason, The Empire Strikes back is a good Star Wars film is because the Director and Actors sat around asking questions, would Han Solo really say that, or do that? Would Han Solo say, I love you too, or would he say, I KNOW. JJ is an actor's Director just like Kershner. So its not only the writers, directors, or producers fault. The actors also have input as well.

    In TFA Poe's character was killed off early on in the script, but Oscar Isaac spoke to JJ about being tired of dying in all his roles. It bothered him that he would die early in TFA so JJ extended his role.

    Therefore, Boyega could have done the same thing. Hey JJ I'm drinking out of the trough... etc. JJ I don't feel comfortable with this slapstick humor. Maybe Boyega was afraid to lose his job, maybe he isn't an experienced actor like Oscar Isaacs. In TLJ's BTS footage, RJ states that Del Toro came up with DJ's personality stuttering and all. I'm cutting Boyega some slack maybe he isn't as experienced or powerful as a Ford, Isaac, or Del Toro but I know Boyega had some say on Finn's character and obviously went with the flow.
     
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  13. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    If Rian wouldn't listen to Mark you know he paid Boyega no mind. There is a big difference with the cast after the introduction of TLJ compared to TFA. The actors were more upbeat when it came to JJ. I didn't see that enthusiasm after TLJ.
     
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  14. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Can I just say that I saw "The Meg" the other day and OMG, that - was - terrible. Not the movie in general but the black comic relief angle was so overwrought in every possible way it yanked me out of the story line every time his character spoke. I remember just sitting there thinking - like - is this really happening? No one saw a problem with this before it went out? I mean that was so completely over the top I'm amazed.
     
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  15. Bunai

    Bunai Clone Commander

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    Boyega was so outspoken about shows and movies like Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones, but has nothing to say about Rian Johnson and The Last Jedi.
     
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  16. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    It yanked me out as well... so embarrassing! Especially when the little Asian girl was trying to slap some sense into him in the water... what a shame. That type of humor doesn't work anymore, only a few comedians can pull it off when they do stand-up but in a film its outdated and over the top.
     
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  17. BrotherRoyVA

    BrotherRoyVA Rebel General

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    He was busy defending TLJ. Granted, like Mark, he may have been forced to defend it based on contract or something.
     
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  18. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Unpopular opinion: I know that Boyega is a fan of SW in general but it is impossible for me (at this point) to distinguish when he's generally just expressing his sincere love for the franchise or when he's being a "Company Man". Again, I know this will be an unpopular opinion, and I genuinely like John Boyega and have since "Attack the Block" but...

    ...Boyega has done his fair share of drumming up media buzz and chatter on behalf of the franchise that was ultimately misleading - particularly via his Instagram (the work out photos? The blaster photo? Completely irrelevant to his story in TLJ)

    Unpopular opinion: Ultimately I do hold the directors responsible for what makes it on the screen, but a lot of the comedic angle that came out in TFA? The brainchild of Boyega to some degree. You see that same wise cracking template utilized in Pacific Rim 2 (though the Jake Pentecost clearly had more gravitas, relevance, and plot impact than Finn has in 2 SW movies and is far more balanced and 3 dimensional)
     
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  19. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    Oh I thoroughly belive its coming. Not just John but other cast members too. But I believe it will be John when it happens, who will be the most vocal.
     
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  20. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Wasn't that about the exclusion of minorities in those cases?

    Rather than how they would be used .
     
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