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Official Finn Episode VIII thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by romall smith, Feb 10, 2016.

?

Finn Force Sensitive in Ep VIII?

  1. He is not / will not be Force Sensitive

    241 vote(s)
    65.3%
  2. He is / will be Force Sensitive

    115 vote(s)
    31.2%
  3. Does not matter he dies in Ep VIII

    13 vote(s)
    3.5%
  1. Trooper212

    Trooper212 Rebel General

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    If they kill Poe it'll be predictable because he was slated to die in TFA already. If they kill Finn it'll also be predictable because of the age-old trope of the 'blackrifice'. Killing Finn would also kill all the interest I have left in Star Wars and at this point there isn't much left to kill.

    Anyway, I think the reason so many of them are fine with what Rian did is because it keeps with the status quo of benefitting only certain characters. If you pay attention to the way they talk about the Finn/Rose storyline, it's addressed as more of an unnecessary blight on an otherwise great movie for them.

    You know what bothers me? It's this whole idea of blaming the characters for the writer's faults. Notice how they praise Rian for writing the Kylo/Rey/Luke storyline as complex but when it comes to the rest of the movie it's the characters themselves at fault.
     
  2. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    That's because there are some that blame JJ, not Rian, for Finn's crappy set up and basic foundation in TFA.
     
  3. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Just out of curiosity (and to pivot a little bit) - what might you see in a trailer that would interest you in Finn's future?

    • I thought seeing Finn wear shiny armor might at least make me wonder - is that Phasma's armor or modeled after it? How and where did he get it? What is the significance of it (if any)?
    • If it looked like he was squaring off with Kylo with some energy weapon
    • If it looked like he was squaring off against Rey (that would actually make me do a "what?" like Luke saying it's time for the Jedi to end). I would suspect it was misdirection and hypothesize that it was actually Rey training Finn
    • If someone said a piece of dialogue along these lines "welcome back home" to Finn

    Anyone else got anything they think might make them have hope if they saw it in a trailer?
     
  4. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Finn finding a lightsaber, and discovering his true identity. If they show glimpses of that then I may be curious. I don't care about any interaction he has with any of the other characters..... Including Rey. She only takes the spotlight anyway.
     
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  5. BrotherRoyVA

    BrotherRoyVA Rebel General

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    I saw that you said these were fans and I'm not surprised. Aside from the fans who voice their displeasure while giving ideas on what could have been you have moderate fans disappointed to the point of contentment with we're given regarding Finn. This manifests in many forms such as, be happy we have a black character in a prominent role on the screen, well at least he's not dead yet, etc.

    Then maybe you have professing fans who don't really care much about Finn as they do say Rey, Kylo, Luke, et al, but pay him lip service and don't really think much about him because to them, Finn hasn't really made an impact no better than say a Jar-Jar, yet at the same time not the character is not a polarizing as a Jar-Jar. Lastly, you have the people who are just apathetic to Finn overall and probably think he wouldn't be worth much as a character if he didn't have anything to do with the Resistance.

    I say the above, because without having participated in the conversations you have with these individuals, I'm weary on saying they're not truly the disappointed to contentment fans. They've been whooped into believing this is as best as it'll get so let's just embrace it and maybe next time we'll get better. I know, I've been there and been through the cycles of thoughts regarding the Finn character. This doesn't rule out the potential they aren't true fans of Finn, nor do I mean to put any words in your mouth, Troop. Just typing out thoughts through the keyboard as my frustrations begin to simmer down and I move on from the cycle of ejecting myself mentally and emotionally from Star Wars to caring enough to conversate on the topic.

    As to your question,
    We've debated here enough about the possibilities of the directions Finn could've gone as a character to know that this isn't true. This is only true with lazy writing and someone who has the creativity of a stone. Here are a list of possibilities, some off the top of my head, others from bad memory from some of the arguments we've had over the years regarding the potential of Finn:

    • Finn could've returned and freed other stormtroopers wrecking havock in the First Order.
    • Finn could've returned home and discovered himself giving him agency to decide whether he wanted to join the resistance and make a difference or be similar to Saw Gerrera and start his own counter-First Order movement that the Resistance may not necessarily approve of, but turn a blind eye to and/or work with.
    • Finn could've discovered he was FS as he went to discover his home planet by discovering it has a history of powerful FS individuals and he discovered another ancient Jedi temple. Then came back and talked a little confidence into Luke.
    • Finn could've discovered he was FS and woke up, went to Achch-To while Rey was trying to convince Luke to train her. Yoda could've appeared and revealed to Luke in some way that they fulfill a desire (anthropomorphically speaking) of the Force. The two could've been trained by Luke. Joined him in his new quest to either redeem Kylo or put an end to the First Order's new strain of darkness as they faced off against Snoke, Kylo, and the Knights of Ren. Possibly acquiring any new FS warriors along the way such as possibly Poe and any new characters Episode 9 could've conjured up to fit this idea.
    • Finn could've been like any of the countless non-FS rough, tough, combatants of the past in the EU who faced off against FS and either came out on top, or held their own long enough for a FS ally to help out such as Jace Malcolm or Sergeant Kreel.
    • Etc. Etc.
    One of the major problems with Finn is how the creative leadership to include Boyega invisioned him. I recall somewhere Boyega saying that J.J. didn't want a serious Finn. He wanted a humorous one. Thus, Boyega took that and ran with it. I believe it's somewhere in this thread. Nevertheless, we got what we got from this. When I read this revelation it led me to believe this is why the Finn in the movies is far removed from the Finn in Before the Awakening anthology. That Finn would've probably went on to be a Jace Malcolm or a Sergeant Kreel. Instead, we got sort of an everyman-Finn who stumbles around, doesn't want to be there, fish-out-of-water type.

    We've been through this before. Overall point is, Finn joining the Resistance is only the lifeblood of the character or I should say appears to be because the creatives just don't care about Finn. They pay lip service, but pairing him with Rose is a clear indicator they don't care about him. They had no creative direction for him after TFA. J.J. may have thought to develop the character from everyman-lite, fish-out-of-water type into somewhat of a more mature, more serious Finn, but he passed off the baton to R.J. So what's done is done and you can't erase it now. Can only move forward with it. That leads me to:

    To be transparent, I'm not sure. I have no hope for Finn now. I'm not necessarily in disappointment into contentment as much as I am in disappointment into frustration into rage into apathy into moderate apathy now.

    I would probably say your second option. If Finn was seen actively facing off against Kylo who is effectively the big bad now that he off'd Snoke. If he was facing off against Kylo with an energy weapon it would indicate that Finn is back in the thick of things and not sidelined with a newly created or continued character to play up the laughs since the creative direction don't know how to have a plot in which more than two characters are the main focus.

    I would probably say your third option as well which could indicate the possibilty of more with Finn. The possibility of what was long hoped for since the debates were lively around Maz's castle scene, the phantom screams that matched the destruction of the Republic and the StarKiller's beam flying through the air. Was this a subtle hint of Finn's Force Sensitivity? What about the marketing campaigns of Finn with the lightsaber? What did it all mean?

    That was shattered...So the disappointment in me would probably keep the optomist in me from running wild. I'd be reminded of the lost hope there was prior to Episode 9. I'd be suspicious this was slight of hand in marketing. That maybe this was probably five minutes of footage to get Finn fans hopeful again only to be disappointed when they get in the theaters to see Finn was sent off to planet garbage along with new character Female-Keep-Him-In-Check just so he could use his janitorial skills to find some long forgotten, hidden, tossed in the trash piece of junk played up to be important at first, but not so important later thingamajig. Somewhere in there or before that he possibly meets Kylo, has a five minute fight in which he suffers horrible, yet humorous defeat, then Kylo is off to care about Rey forgetting how much Finn's escape annoyed him throughout the majority of TFA.

    So, I dunno, I really dunno at this point if there is anything that would get me excited and I'm at a point where I'm not too worried about it either.

    Edited to add:

    I'm being entirely too negative. I see you were trying to pivot to potential positivity, so I'll say I think it's a bit too late to want to see anything too drastic such as Finn training with Rey or even Finn finding his home. This is the last episode in the Sequal Triology. While I'm not saying they can't do it, I don't think they're capable enough to try. Just me. Anyways, I'll add:
    • Finn taking charge, not following someone else's whim. Possibly soldiers taking orders from him as he makes decisions or something. Or in other words, confidence, determination, individual agency. Easily shown in a trailer, a cut scene of him in front of a squad of soldiers, or in a command center barking orders with confidence, no bumbling, etc.
    • Finn AND REY squaring off against Kylo with energy weapons. No slight of hand trickery, a clear scene of the two of them standing off against Kylo side.by.side. No way to misinterpret it. It is what it is. (I'm aware this one may be asking a bit much, but this would rule out any of what I said above.)
    • Almost every scene of Finn in the trailer is with him in the midst of the immediate plotline or with the main cast and not a secondary side character. In other words, Finn restablished as part of the group of importance.
    • Finn finding his way home. Stumbling upon his parents, something to hint of who he is. Maybe this is an opening scene along with a scene of Rey discovering Kylo was full of it and she is connected to someone important. Then to piggyback on one of your ideas, a scene where Rey and Finn are training together. Then a scene with Luke with them, force ghost or whatever (some are arguing there is president in the SW universe that Luke could come back to life).
    Any and all of those may spark my interest, but like you said, I'd maintain a healthy skepticism.
     
    #8605 BrotherRoyVA, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  6. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I think the crazy part is some wanting to believe Star Wars is still a major blockbuster. That's done. You can't keep others out of the main story, and expect them to support your product. People don't do that.

    I remember when Jeremy Lin had Linsanity going on in NY, and that was a fun time. I remember the game they played in Toronto, and the amount of Asian fans that came out in support with flags and all. When Jeremy hit the game winning three you could see the flags all over the building and the people were crazy excited, because it was one of their own. They came out to see one of their own do well.

    Lucas films didn't appreciate 2 billion made at the box office. They would prefer to make less, and less is what they will get too.
     
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  7. BrotherRoyVA

    BrotherRoyVA Rebel General

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    Since editing gets disabled after some time on a post, I just want to point out there were places that I said episode 9 and I meant episode 8 as well as places where I said episode 9 and meant episode 10 in the above post.

    My bad.
     
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  8. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Interesting thoughts and comments. A couple of things I would not have expected all things considered.
     
  9. starwarsforever

    starwarsforever Clone Commander

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    A last Jedi Review where a guy talks about how Finn could been a better character

     
  10. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Most people agree Finn got the short end of the stick, but the question we need to ask ourselves is why. Many people for over two years and still counting still come up with theories that leaves Finn out of the story. Despite the fact that Finn being a central part of the story is one of the biggest reasons this new trilogy got off to a great start. It seems some are more concerned about a movie that doesn't involve all of the characters. However small in this sense doesn't sell. Not in a space story that is suppose to affect the galaxy. To be honest. It's rather arrogant to even think about making a movie where the fate of the galaxy comes down to one or two beings. The Star Wars universe is full of life, and plenty of planets. The idea might sound cool on a certain level, but it's pretty ridiculous when you give it serious thought. This story is just way too small. This movie needs to be larger, but some believe smaller is the way to go. I personally think you would have to throw away to much of your brain to believe in such an idea. That's one of the reasons people were disappointed with TLJ. It pushed everyone aside except for Rey and Kylo, but most people don't believe in them. They aren't developed, mature, or believable enough to continue a story where the questions are only about them.
     
  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Even though I have to agree with Finn being a weak character and that the world of the ST feels too small, I have to disagree with the quotes above. One of the big critism I have about TLJ is that we have too many characters (and plots) going on. I'm a fan of few but well developed characters...
    This is also the reason why I'm worried about EPIX. There are so many new cast members. Work with what you've got already! Star Wars was always about two or three beings saving the galaxy.
     
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  12. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I don't see how becoming an accomplished fighter in order to defeat Phasma would have been a better arc for Finn than becoming an individual with high morals and convictions... No matter how "planned" the first option may be, I certainly prefer the second, un-planned one. Finn's improved fighting skills would have turned his character into an uninteresting, macho, "make-them-hurt" fighting machine, whereas RJ's decision to challenge Finn's soul at least had an emotional resonance and allowed for true personal growth.
     
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  13. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I was talking in another thread with some of you about Poe’s arc in VIII.
    And somehow I came out to think and suggest that if they wanted to make of Poe
    the new Leia (see the finale “follow him”) then his arc should have been about
    learning politics and diplomacy.
    Not a matter of military choices.

    Now... had they done that, Finn could have had the military arc.

    Unfortunately the way I see it, it’s that in the first movie he was presented as the
    co-protagonist.
    But at the same time not only Rey and Kylo were those
    given of the Force plot, but since the opening crawl of TFA Poe was meant to replace
    Leia (even more so after TLJ) leaving Finn without his own ground.
    To make a comparison
    In the OT Luke and Han are both military men, at least untill the beginning of Empire.
    But then, Luke’s path truly deviates to become that of a Jedi only.
    Leia is surely a military leader, but she’s also a diplomat, a politician...
    Just like her mother in the PT ( Obi Wan and Anakin were both Jedi and generals).

    That said, since unfortunately Leia will play a small role in IX, they can do that now.
    But I am afraid... it’s not the case...
     
  14. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    This trilogy was about three characters. TLJ became a hot mess because a director wanted to bring in other characters that didn't support the main three. Rey and Kylo are not going to break any box office records. Daisy's career has taken a step backwards ever since TLJ. Finn was the catalyst for this trilogy. Except for doing things well in TFA Rey was only interesting when she was around Finn. The moment she became a solo act or hooked up with Kylo the movie lost it's humanity. Rey and Kylo aren't human. Their is hardly anything human about them. Just super powered beings that we are supposed to be enamored by. Sorry, but I like to see the best of humanity, and there is no way Rey and Kylo can provide that.
     
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  15. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I'm sorry for you. IMO Kylo Ren is the best and most human character of the whole SW saga and that even though I'm not the biggest fan of TLJ. But to each to their own...
     
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  16. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    The most human character. Wow! That's an interesting thought process to take. You see more humanity in a character who wants to kill everyone in his family except his mamma, but not with the characters who never got a chance to have a relationship with their family.... Okay.
     
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  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Humans are often associated with weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility. This pretty much fits with Kylo Ren, doesn't it? ;D
     
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  18. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Dude. They're making Rey and Kylo Ren sneakers. And Rey and Kylo Ren ice cream.

    I think it's time to accept facts. That Finn is just not high on LUcasFilm's list as Rey and KYlo are.

    When they tried to set up a "humanity" storyline with Canto Bight, guys like you and others, hated it immensely.

    So it seems, the majority audience like watching "super powered beings who enamour us."
     
    #8618 LarsSkywalker, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  19. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Kylo is given a bunch of excuses, and he isn't human. Not when he takes the lives of others. He is a monster. To be human is to have weaknesses, but you don't seek power. That's the opposite of humanity. In order to gain power you have to step over the lives of others.
     
  20. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Yes and no, that still makes him human. A bad human, but it still fits. He's a monster of a man.
     
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