Official Finn Episode VIII thread

LOL, even people who liked TLJ generally critique the Canto Bight sub plot more than any other storyline. Let me tell it, NOBODY liked Canto Bight. Of course if the majority of the audience like watching "super powered beings" then I guess our concerns about Finn before TLJ were justified and everyone saying he was their favorite character because he was regular was lying.

 

Some Hope for Finn in 9

 

@starwarsforever we all want better for Finn but it's hard to believe anything that comes out as a leak that in any way elevates Finn. We've just been through this dance too many times, and the people at the helm just don't seem to get it (and don't seem to be pressed about pivoting much).

If they do, my concern is how they go about doing it plausibly. And given that they have used up so much of the bandwidth alluding to no skill sets. It will not be plausible or believable if in the first frame of the movie he swing some energy weapon with no explanation. All characters (IMO) need to have plausible development to their endstates. It's been my principle gripe with ALL the characters. It won't change when it's one of my favorite characters getting a power boost. It STILL has to be done plausibly.

 

Yeah, John has hyped up Finn's role before and the results were shown in TLJ, so whatever he says I take with a grain of salt.

As far as the plausibility concern, I understand this concern and it's a legitimate one. However, at the same time I would argue that plausibility has already been thrown out of the window Windu style when Rey downloaded powers and became an Easy Bake Jedi. Given that, I wouldn't hold it against them too much if Finn was suddenly shown to be a hyper-competent warrior. Besides, that actually has precedent based on his canonical backstory in BTA. If people don't have a problem with super Rey they shouldn't hypocritically have a problem with bada$$ Finn, especially when there's rumored to be a time-jump.

 

I just watched overlord and the protagonist reminds me of Finn that over came his obstacle.

 

LOL @ Easy Bake Jedi.

It has been alleged that Rey downloaded her skills through the mind probe. I was then and am now highly critical of that out-of-movie explanation. Not only is it lazy, it's not even in the movie. It was one of the things I hate most about Ridley's development. And while I take your point that others that accepted it should have no problem with it occurring for the benefit of Finn, I didn't accept it for Rey. Part of what makes Luke's bizarre make over in TLJ so appalling is that the supposed catalyst for it happening wasn't plausible (i.e. I didn't give up on Vader but I give up on Kylo). Development needs to be plausible to be believed (and I would argue enjoyable). There's some metadata in TFA they can hook into but they actually have to do the work. It's precisely their refusal to do the work that ruined Luke (IMO).

 

Canto Bight has grown on me. It's one of the best set pieces in the film. My only complaint is how they find DJ/BB-8 at the end.

Not to rehash this over an over, but I'm not sure what people were expecting from Finn. He has a great final confrontation against Phasma and wins. He finally stops running away. He simply gets bullied out of the way in two fights in the TFA. I can't wait to see him more in Episode XI now that Luke won't take up so much of the film.

 

The problem about Finn's character in TLJ: he has the exact same arc than in TFA. People wanted development!

 

His arc isn't the same. His arc in TFA was fleeing the First Order and saving Rey. That exactly where his character is at the start of the TLJ. He's running away again before Rose catches him trying to run away again. By the end of TLJ he's willing to die for the Resistance. Not to save Rey, but because he's willing to die for the cause. DJ offers Finn an excuse not to fight. It's all a machine. Don't join. Rose reminds Finn how the First Order brutal tactics have exploited the galaxy. This is something Finn has seen first hand.





After defeating Phasma Finn is ready to do anything to win.

"No! I won't let them win!" - Finn


This quote gets some of blow back, but I'm not sure why. The Republic/Resistance is aligned with the Jedi philosophy. Rose's quote about fighting to save those we love instead of fighting things we hate could have been said by Yoda. Finn's sacrifice wouldn't have saved anyone and it was out his hate for the First Order. This kind of the same lesson Poe learns. He's able to blow up the dreadnought, but the cost didn't justifiy losing the entire bombing fleet.

At the end of TLJ Finn isn't the same person he was at the beginning of TFA. Not only has Finn learned that some causes are worth fighting for he's learning about fighting the right way.

 

Finn had already experienced the FO's brutallity first hand - he was kidnapped as a child by the FO, so he exactly knows what the FO is capable of. He doesn't need a reminder by Rose.

He should already have been at this point in the last movie. She was thrown into a garbage chute in TFA, she was left for dead.

But her quote doesn't fit with her actions. She almost killed Finn and herself by trying to save her "boyfriend".

To me he already learned that lesson in TFA and he was already a different person at the ending of that movie. But TLJ negated this development for the sake of the story Rian wanted to tell.

 

Which is why I said "Rose reminds Finn." DJ isn't going to win over Finn after what he's seen with his eyes and the brutality Rose has experienced as well. Finn has been with the First Order his entire life. Until a few days ago he could have thought this kind of brutality is common place on both sides.

That's a matter of opinion. I disagree.

Finn was about to die. Her actions saved him from suicide. Is there another way she could have done it? Her options were limited.

There's nothing in the TFA that suggests that Finn's motivated by anything other than to save Rey. Why he fights Kylo Ren he does it because he's protecting Rey. Finn ends TFA being knocked out cold trying to save Rey. When did he learn this lesson?

It's perfectly fine not to like Finn's arc. It's not worth arguing over a personal opinion. However, the claim that "Finn's arc was the same in TFA and TLJ" is supported by what happens in the films.

 

Another Canon source Poe Dameron comic book series 27 when Finn and Rey and Poe are talking about the Force, Rey said to Poe about what happen to him , that is sounds like the Force, and Poe said he dont have the Force, Finn also said to Poe " that how the force works"... " I got some conflicting reports on that" his reference is to what Han Solo told him on Star Killer base when he said we use the force. So Leia said to Poe when he said that " Of course you have the Force Poe.... We all do.". Then Finn said " I never understand". This confirms all three of them are force sensitive.

Then Finn steps off too check on Rose, Rey said to Finn " I see you soon" and Rey and Poe said this guy saved my life, and Poe answers yes he saved my life, Rey said "he's special" as they are watching him walk off confirm it from Rey. Also it confirms Finn&Rey " see you soon " she smiling at him.

 

Rose had another option. Allow Finn to make his choice. If he felt the need to sacrifice himself to save those he cared for, Rian Johnson should have allowed Rose to honor his choice. Instead, for some reason, Johnson thought Rose had the right to interfere.

I certainly didn't want Finn to die. He's my favorite character in this trilogy. But I hated that Johnson thought Rose had the right to do what she did. And I really hated that Johnson had created this situation in the first damn place.

 

This situation als created something I pretty much dislike. Because of that very moment it's pretty obvious now that Finn won't die in this trilogy. Yeah, this may be a dubious point of criticism, but for me this takes away alot from Finn's possible new arc in the next movie. Personally I want one of the new heroes to die (crazy, I know). It won't be Rey and now because of TLJ it won't be Finn too. This only leaves Poe. #Suspense

It was a 50/50 chance for Rose. She could have easily killed him with her actions. Furthermore I still don't get why the FO didn't kill them as soon as they crushed in front of them. I guess plot armor. The funny thing is, you don't really need Rose in that scene and still have the same outcome. Just let a TIE Fighter shoot down Finn. Done. He couldn't sacrifice him and lives on to fight and learn.

I liked Finn's arc in TFA very much! But this also the reason why I dislike his character arc in TLJ, because I've seen it two years prior. That's sad for me. But it's not only Finn. TLJ didn't really develop most of the characters. I blame the decision of "no time jump" for that.

 

No, he shouldn’t have. Finn’s choice was stupid and pointless and Rose saved him because she knew better.
We need to accept that Finn is diprogramming from his stormtrooper conditioning. That’s been his character trajectory this far. He’s not the mature hero so many want him to be. Not yet. He’s heading in that direction, but that will probably be his arc in 9.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2018 ---

But that is not what RJ wanted to deliver in 8. He wanted Rose to be Finn’s mentor and being the one who teaches him self sacrifice was not the solution at that time. Rose is the voice of reason and love in that moment. She already lost a sister in a pointless battle. She doesn’t want to lose finn too.

 

Voice of reason? She almost killed Finn and herself! IMO she was just selfish. I'm sorry but her actions are inconsistent with her talk. In one moment she talks about destorying a city with her bare hands and in the next she wants to save people with love...

This is the reason why a lot of people dislike Rose from the get go.

 

I'm all for reasonable criticism, but some people's pure hatred of the film clouds any ability to discuss it reasonably.

It makes me wonder how people would have received Han Solo after the Return of the Jedi had it been released the internet age. Would their be threads complaining Han Solo's character was pointless after saving Luke on Hoth? I've seen plenty of nitpicky complaints, but I'm still not sure what people wanted? A superhero Finn perhaps?

 

i'm okay with Finn in TLJ, made my peace with his actions, but i think i what i wanted and didn't get was for Finn to be operating more under his own agency. his main goal is to protect Rey, but Rey's not there, so that motivator feels weak. Rose ends up driving much of their adventure on Canto Bight, and his big moment at the end (which i love, by the way), gets fishtailed by Rose as well. it had to be fishtailed, so i'm not objecting to that per se, but to me the whole thing could have been stronger if Rose had given him the "save what you love" line earlier (maybe tearing him away from pursuing Phasma), but then she's the one who goes kamikaze at the end because of her sister, and it's Finn who stops her, reminds her of her own maxim, and then she falls in love with him for having learned the lesson and doing the right thing.

Finn comes off weak because he consistently makes the wrong choice (well-meaning as he is), right even to the end when he says they have to go help Luke (this time it's Poe who talks him down).

i love Finn and i think he's going to come out all right in ix. but his arc in TLJ is not as powerful as it could have been. he didn't need to be the hero, and failure was thematic and necessary, but i do think he should have been led around less and that the lesson he learned could have been more broad-brushed.

 

Nah, her talk about destroying the city was figurative, that was obvious to me. In the end she and Finn did destroy the city unwittingly and during their escape, but she pointedly said afterwards that the destruction was only worth it after she set the horsey thingies free... there was a positive outcome in that action.

As someone else mentioned before there was only one way For Rose to stop finn going kamikaze. Interesting that you think she was selfish for risking her life saving someone she loved, but do not think the same about finn for risking his life and wanting to destroy a mere weapon without really saving anyone...

RJ decided to turn Rose into the person who acted most reasonably in that situation.

I’m not sure that so many people dislike Rose... if you ignore the horrendous trolling and vitriol the character and the actress have endured since December, there has been mostly fair criticism about how she was written, not about the character per se... I personally feel that Rose could have been more developed and had better lines on canto bight, but in general I think the character worked well complementing Finn’s arc.

 

Finn is not deprogramming because he wasn't programmed in the first place. This explicitl stated in Before the Awakening. The fact that people resort to throwing out patently false ideas to excuse Finn's mishandling should make it abundantly clear that he and his arc were not given the attention they deserved.