Official Finn Episode VIII thread

hahaha ~ sorry, i got no love for the little fishy-eyeballed fiend.

that's because you're being too literal.

agreed.

 

I think liberating/attracting a few stormtroopers would be alright but having an entire fleet defect, small or no, would be too much for me. In fact having around 50 to a few hundred defecting stormtroopers would be pretty cool. The unit could be centred around Finn (who else would they want to lead them?) and they could be an elite shock unit, maybe infiltration as well, for the NR: Finn's commandos or something like that. The most I would be alright with would be like half a legion, maybe a full legion, but even then that's thousands of stormtroopers and I think that's pushing it for me.

True, you could have a non-FS Finn face Rey down but it would be the kind of battle where he is getting destroyed while trying to appeal to Rey emotionally. Less of a fight and more of a child begging his angry parent to stop hitting him, could be done but I wouldn't like it.

Yes, Snoke and Kylo would be rather excluded here. However, you could have Rey fall at the end of Ep.VIII and then the beginning/early middle section of Ep.IX could contain Finn and Rey's redemption fight before going on with the rest of the film dealing with Snoke, and whatever the hell Kylo decides he's doing.

I'm afraid I can't take credit for that one. Trooper212 is the creator of that phrase.

I think this is a problem the TFA Finn thread covered which is essentially that some people view different plot lines as side shows and others don't, or at least they see them as interesting/enjoyable. For example, the Jabba Hutt/Rescue Han plot line is clearly a subplot which needed to be dealt with before moving on to the main course and I'm sure that many people found it an enjoyable diversion but that doesn't change the fact that it was a side quest, an introductory one.

Out of curiosity was Han/Harrison Ford ever slated as the co-lead for any of the OT films? I swear I remember him being labelled as such but I don't recall where. If he was then that will certainly be worrying or encouraging depending upon your point of view.

 

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I agree with all this. Especially the Rey vs non-FS Finn analysis.

@Trooper212, my bad. Gave your credit to someone else.

I think the difference in the side quest to save Han is that nearly all of the major characters were involved in that side quest. It wasn't one in which Finn and [Insert New Character Here] went on a side quest apart from the major story. The majority of the most vocal Finn side quest theories are in the realm where he would mostly be detached from the major plot. I can respect that people would find a side quest plot enjoyable, I probably would to, but I also think we have to come to terms with the fact that a side quest will never replace the main story issues in any way. Plus, if he's largely regulated to only finding importance in side quests then he potentially loses his focus as a major character.

I think post-cult following Han/Harrison Ford has been angled as a co-lead in the Original Trilogy and by extension the overall SW era in which Han lives. Prior to that, I don't know. Thinking back on the movie, it would seem Harrison Ford was a co-lead with Mark Hamil. Most of the time they spend on the screen is together. However, if I recall correctly, once Leia is saved, it's more like a shared thing. All three, Ford, Hamill and Fisher were new comers on the Hollywood scene at the time.

Overall if it's a side plot equal to Jabba the Hut/Han Rescue then that's one thing as I expressed above. All parties were involved in that and Ford/Han still played a major role in events to come aside from the final confrontation with Vader and Sidious as the big bad. But, I think a comparison in this fashion would do a disservice to the New Trilogy seeing as how Luke was the sole FS/Jedi left at that time and the only one who could've really faced off against two Sith. Still tho, thinking on it, it sort of proves my point that, given the fact Leia, Han, Lando, and Chewy were all around and the established non-FS blaster/rogue/trooper types...you didn't see any of them accompany Luke to help fend off Vader and/or Sidious. No, they were all regulated to the battle of fending off the Death Star.

 

I think that will be an awesome duel.

 

• Who is his primary antagonist? I believe this needs to be Kylo, Zeros, the KOR, and The rest of the FO
  
• Who will he train with? At this point I would find it interesting if he either self trained or was trained by a Force Ghost. Picture Finn fresh from a trippy force vision while in a coma, trying not to interact with a force ghost yoda, the comedy, the potential.

• What Luke Skywalker ESB moment do you want for the character
• What kind of darker themed story can you imagine for him? I don't I'd prefer a twist, Rey gets the Luke ESB treatment from Kylo, and Kylo gets the RoS treatment from Finn (Obi wan style).

• When do you think he will have his Rematch? Hopefully in ep.8
• When do you think his cybernetics will play into the story? From the beginning, of episode 8.

• Where do you see the battle of Light and Dark taking him? To a grey area of the force.
• Where do you want to see the character display his powers? While training and during any and all action sequences.

• Why do you feel the character is worth 40% of the screen time? He is the most original character and has the most potential if he is in fact FS.
  
• Why do you think he will or won't be a Jedi? I think he will refuse the Jedi because he won't feel the need to join another organization good or bad. I believe he would rather explore the universe and leave the resistance, FO, KOR and the Jedi behind. However he may become a Jedi in the future out of necessity.

• How do you think his lineage comes into play? Does it matter? Tons of potential here they could tie in to Project Harvester and the inquisitors, Finn was taken from a FS village and trained to be a special ops Storm Trooper to fight resurgent Jedi. Or he could be a clone like Sa Cuis. Either way a ton of potential with FS.
  
• How do you feel the darker themed story will effect him? It could further push his arc towards A grey area of the force, after watching the effects of the dark side and the Near impossible requirements of the light side.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 17, 2016 ---

I officially think Finns side kick should be a force ghost Yoda. Rey has BB8, Han had chewie, Rey now has Chewie, Finn should get yoda, lol.

 

Does Finn really have to be force sensitive? Just because he used a lightsaber and can hold his own for a time? I think Rey is enough as it is...maybe while they're at it, make Poe force sensitive too! lols.

I'll be fine if Finn and Poe are not force sensitive and besides I think it would take the focus away from Rey's story and her journey. Just because Han used a lightsaber doesn't mean he's force sensitive. He used it because...well it was the only way where he could make a clean cut of the taun-taun's belly to protect Luke from the cold as they waited to be rescued by Echo base.

dont get me wrong, I really like Finn as a character but come on, he doesn't have to be anything else but himself. He was a stormtrooper, yes but he's a resistance fighter now on the good side. I rather they keep it that way for him as a character - perhaps he trains with Poe to sharpen his fighting techniques and piloting.

He can still be one of few who goes off to help Rey or if she ends up falling to the dark side, Finn could possibly attempt to bring her back but the question is, will it cost him his life? I hope not. Then again, we don't know what's in store for Finn.

 

Yeah a big NO to Rey falling to the Dark Side, that'd be a TERRIBLE idea imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 17, 2016 ---

I didn't see any "compassion" for her in the film.

 

i know you didn't see it, but it's there in every scene they have together.
and if you think it's poorly presented, that's okay too. but even if that's the case, it's stated in no uncertain terms in the book.

i get it that it doesn't look like compassion on the surface, but Kylo Ren's love for his father doesn't really look much like love either, does it?

 

I would normally agree with your explanation that Finn used a lightsaber in Episode VII because the specific circumstances he faced left him with no choice but to use it. However, why would the screenwriter/director insist on Finn using a lightsaber again in Episode VIII if he is not FS and the circumstances that existed in TFA won't be duplicated ?

I just think it is odd for a non-FS to have a lightsaber as his weapon of choice on a regular basis as John Boyega's training suggests will be the case for Finn in Episode VIII.

 

See it seemed to me that pretty much ALL of the stuff that did hint at his "compassion" for her in the novelization, and yes it is there, was removed from the film itself. Almost like JJ and co did it intentionally. And apparently LOTS of people didn't "see it." Because there's nothing, he does nothing to even try.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 17, 2016 ---

It be something new and different to the films, isn't that what people claim that they want?

 

I like this honesty even if I don't agree with your opinion.

I think the idea of Rey falling to the dark side comes from an attempt to actually make her storyline dynamic and surprising. You know give her some real rough edges. Plus she should have a wealth of issues having lived by herself on a wasteland of a planet waiting for a family that never came back, abandonment issues should be the least of her problems.

I haven't followed the Rey discussion in detail, if at all, so I don't know what other ideas people have for her story progression but her falling to the dark side, for a brief moment, is certainly not the worst direction to take her.

 

fair enough if that's your take, but the novel is still canon and these points don't contradict the film.
we still see him treat her differently than he treats anyone else when he's pretty cruel otherwise (even to people on his own side).
for probably as many people who don't see him behave with compassion, just as many people do.

but the whole "Kylo Ren's treatment of Rey" seems like it's been well-hashed in other threads.
don't want to go so far OT since this is Finn-land.

 

Opps almost missed these.

Yes agreed, that's what I was aiming at. I've mentioned this before but in the PT Obi-Wan actually had little important side quests to accomplish and was actually quite intertwined with the main plot of the PT, in contrast to Han who was more segregated from Luke's story arc. This is of course due to other factors, such as the lack of a enduring antagonist (unless you count Sheev) and Obi-Wan's relevance in the OT, but Han was far less necessary to the main plot line of the OT hence why he was sent off to do other things.

Entirely agree, they're not going to waste time fleshing out ex-stormtroopers in the main films of the ST. Sounds like something much better suited to a comic book, book or cartoon series where they can create numerous stormtrooper characters with quirky names/nick names fighting agains the FO. People loved that crap with the Clones so it seems like something they would try to emulate.

 

"Surprise" just for the sake of it isn't automatically a good thing. She's already got plenty of other issues to potentially work through, and then the stuff with Luke and Kylo to boot. There are big potential problems with doing this anyway:

-You're already kind of doing it with Kylo.

-You're again risking the idea of it feeling too much like Anakin's story.

-You're risking annoying LOTS of people by essentially going "you know the cool female hero that you love, and who's supposed to be a role model for young women/girls. We'll we're go9ing to turn her dark and need her male friends to save her from herself." And given that the primary reason that some fans argue for that is simply "we'll it be a big surprise." Which is no necessarily a particularly good reason to risk it, for the reason that I listed at the beginning of this post. Especially since the treatment of female characters in these films has not exactly been stellar overall, far from it.

-You'd have to have her "go dark" for long enough, and do enough scary crap, to even justify going that route in the first place (otherwise it's just pointless). But if you have her go too far, then you risk the audience potentially turning on her and not buying/accepting any "redemption" that you try to give her. Also, if you try and shove that all into one film, one and a half at most, then you're really not leaving yourselves a lot of time in order to make it truly compelling. Especially with all of the other arcs/plotlines that also would need development and then wrapping up. It's like the fall of Anakin/destruction of the Jedi in ROTS. Potentially tragic and compelling, but undermined by being really rushed and underdeveloped.

 

While I get what some of you guys mean about wanting a 'space war' - it is called Star Wars after all - the stormtrooper liberation idea just seems like a really original and intriguing idea. Resistance vs First Order is basically Rebels vs Empire - you're still getting your space war but there needs to be a few spices thrown in the mix, to keep things fresh.

 

I thought Boyega did a good job on a very poorly written role. Finn spends much of the film in panic, or lying about who he really is and desperate to get out of the fight. It's a pretty crummy arc for him really, only to land knocked out and defeated and left alone.

My hope is they give Finn some stronger stuff to work with emotionally and in terms of character advancement. He gets scolded by Solo throughout the film, flipped off by the droid, hit over the head by Rey and mistrusted and scolded by Maz on first impression.

We can do better than that for Finn and my hope is Episode 8 will do better.

 

Surprise or better said "suspense" is vital to story telling, hence why we all have such fun speculating in this forum: Whether that be Rey's parentage or Finn's FS. What other issues is she going to work through and how is she going to do so? Although perhaps it's better you don't answer that as we are already derailing this thread.

Kylo's struggle is his temptation to the light which would offer a nice parallel to Rey's temptation to the dark. I get what you're saying though, as I find Kylo's arc one of the more interesting aspects of TFA, and hopefully the rest of the ST, but you risk Rey ceding all the dramatic tension to another character.

Anakin fell and was fully committed to the dark side for decades, killing billions. I'm not suggesting that Rey be some kind of dark lord but merely corrupted for a brief period.

Rey doesn't need to be a full blown villain merely a confused soul who is going through the process of corruption. She could captured at the end of Ep.VIII and tortured until she gives in but is still not fully committed to the dark side and kept very close by Kylo as he tries to groom her as his apprentice. It would be an interesting direction to take the relationship between Kylo and Rey, and no I don't mean that in a romantic way.

Anakin's fall felt rushed because the whole PT was poorly written, and much else besides. There were some many ways of developing Anakin's seduction to the dark that could have been accomplished in the PT but Lucas f**ked up there.

Ugh. You had some good points but this one is just ludicrous and part of the reason why Rey will have problems if she is treated as a role model and not a character first and foremost. Injecting too much of the feminist politics into Rey's character will ruin her, mark my words. Treat her as a person not a woman, especially in regard to compelling storylines.

I detest the Rebels Resistance vs EmpireFirst Order parallels that TPTB have attempted to force into the ST and I hope that the NR will completely take over the role of the Resistance which will promptly cease to exist. A few stormtrooper defections are fine but whole fleets and armies? No, I'm afraid I'll never be sold on that idea, I just don't like it. Entirely personal preference.

 

I'm not thinking of whole armies either - that would be overkill. I'm thinking a smaller squad, of about 5 to 20.

 

No, that's cool, a squad centred around Finn. I said very much the same further up this page.