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SPECULATION Official Han Solo Discussion Thread.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Sylair, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    but...he did.

    Han saving Luke in ESB isn't really equivalent. Ben isn't in a snow drift. Ben has left his family of his own volition out of his anger and for political reasons.
    there's every indication that Han either fears him or fears his misunderstanding of him at the very least.
    and frankly, it doesn't seem very clear to Han that Ben needs saving and that he can actually do that until he talks to Leia.

    we can just agree to disagree.
    you think Han should have pursued his son to put a stop to him in a hunt-him-down western style.
    but even Luke didn't do that with Vader. he went to Vader and surrendered on pure faith that Vader could be turned.
     
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  2. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    Here’s the problem with Han’s relationship with Rey. It is unearned. He went through a Rathtar chase and now he wants to suddenly take her in under his wing. That’s an emotional beat that would take most of an act or a film to do. It’s the same issue with Finn and Poe. I love their bonding with the escape from the star destroyer. however, the next time we see them they act as if they have been best buds when they knew each other for fifteen minutes. What was the purpose of Poe disappearing and coming back again?

    As far as losing your son forever scene, no that does not sound like a guy on a hunt but that’s my problem. So when things go bad he just takes off immediately? That doesn’t fit with the Han from the first three films. If it’s son of all people, then he should be even more pro-active.
    While Luke does tell Han he’s best at taking care of himself, Han comes back to prove him wrong “You’re all clear kid.”
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2017 ---
    Fair enough, we can agree to disagree about Han Solo.

    As far as Luke goes. Luke didn’t need to hunt VAder but he did surrender himself because he felt he was endangering the mission. He’s giving himself up. He even says to the Emperor “Soon I’ll be dead and you with me.” He’s not sure his father can be saved “My father is truly dead” but he does have some faith. He didn’t walk away when he felt he was a threat to the mission, he went and did something about it. So I have issues with him hiding on an island while all of this is going down.
     
  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    yes, but what did he do first? he left.

    you seem to have this idea of Han that isn't really who he is.
    and it's fair enough to just not like Han for who he is or be disappointed in him. but Han's behavior is not illogical. it's just not your preference.
     
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  4. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    He left first and the fact that he came back to help Luke is the point of his arc. He changes. So for him to suddenly regress because his son became a little blast is not enough for me. I think I understand Han pretty well, we just have different opinions about what he would do in that given situation.

    We see Han changing throughout Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi. There was character consistency, each film acknowledged he had changed.

    I don’t think it’s much of a stretch for Han to take initiative when his son is acting up, if his whole arc is letting go of his ego throughout the first three films. Having him being a smuggler again felt like an excuse for Abrams to bring back a nostalgic feeling we had when Han Solo was first introduced. Sure it’s nice in the moment but for me it doesn’t holdup upon deep thought. There’s a reason why me and a many others felt his death scene came off flat.

    It reminded me of Batman taking off 8 years because some girl died and a vague Dent act. In the same way, that story thread ruined the ending and effectiveness of the dark knight and that film’s ending.
     
  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    What did Han do when Ben turned? He left.

    It seems that facing a difficult moment, Han more or less will run and look after himself first. It's just who he is.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    your reference to TDKR is ironic. and of course we completely disagree about that as well ~ hahaha.

    Han's essential nature hasn't changed. yes, he has grown some in the course of the OT, but one day your world may be turned upside down by some catastrophic event (Lordy, i hope not, but we all probably go through it eventually), and you'll see either in yourself or others how difficult it can sometimes be to get back on the horse.

    the point is Han does. you just don't like the way he goes about it. again, that's personal preference. you think he should have acted faster. i think he did what he could as he could and still came to the same conclusion we were both hoping for.

    xactly.
     
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  7. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    I just feel feel the film wasn't consistent with its story line. A character will say one thing and then do another in the Abrams films. I just feel that it felt forced to make him a 70 year old smuggler and just a way for Abrams to reuse Han Solo like in A New Hope, regardless of character consistency. That’s just my opinion. Obviously, others feel differently.

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/01/07/han-solo-all-things-must-pass
     
  8. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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  9. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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  10. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    *pokes head in* So many words... I barely recognize this place! ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i know, right? what's all this conversation in the Han Solo thread??? hahaha

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    If you can accept that Solo can have enough character development in the 5ish years of the Galactic Civil War to go from being a smuggler to a Rebel general, what makes you think that in 30ish years he can't revert back? It's not like he just say in an empty white room that entire time.
     
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  13. Boushhdisguise

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    Losing your kid to the darkside can make a toll on a man. Shipping Rathars for King Prana wasn't hauling spice. Borrowing money from criminal syndicates wasn't great either, but who knows he may have lost a lot of face from the racing circuit to go back to "shipping" There was that line in Bloodlines "Once a pirate" That Niktos dude said to Leia. Here's a goofy picture to get back to what these threads are really about.

    chewiespa.jpg
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Han clearly went through some pretty terrible things. His character, while familiar seeming to ANH Han, is actually a really dark take on the character. It's alluded to that this is because of Ben's betrayal, but I really wish they'd gone more into depth with showing his pain, and why it led him down that path. It was so jarring to see his fractured relationship with Leia after them being together in the Legends. It makes sense now, but I think the point JJ was trying to make could've gone a little deeper.
     
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  15. Boushhdisguise

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    It was more upsetting when I first saw that, but after reading the other materials (the novelization, Bloodline, etc), it wasn't that long of a time, it made me feel better about it. Heck even Chewie was pretty much on his home planet for a little over 20 years.
     
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  16. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    There's the line too " she doesn't want to see me". Maybe he got pushed away as well.
     
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  17. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    That’s my problem, it’s all a bunch of maybes. That is the big problem with making a movie filled with mystery boxes, nothing ever gets answered. They essentially made Han a man child, which contradicts his characterization in the OT. Yes he was immature and selfish but he was also caring and had a heart.

    It would make more sense for Han to not want to see Leia because he doesn’t want to face her with the fact with what he’s about to do, put down their rabid dog Kylo Ren. Not saying this is exactly better but wouldn’t it be more dramatic and tonally consistent if when they say their final goodbye before going to Starkiller base, that we know that his aim is to kill Ben but he has a slight change of heart when she says “bring our son home” ? The problem with this whole conflict is that we don’t know what Han’s relationship with Ben is. At least by having Han trying to track him down, we at least have a consistent character arc and we come to understand why Han is doing what he’s doing.

    Does the end result make sense here? “I’m the same the guy who took off but came back to help my friend blow up the Death Star, the Empire’s deadliest weapon. I also went out in the deadliest snow blizzard just to save him and when people said it was too risky I said 'I’ll see you in hell,’ and saved him. After which, I got everyone in trouble with my cocky behavior, which caused our ship to malfunction and eventually we got kidnapped by The empire. Before i got frozen, I told Chewie to stop fighting for me and protect the woman I love. When I got rescued I became a lot more responsible and took initiative by volunteering on a dangerous mission to destroy the shield generator of the second death star, which helped destroy it and thus ending the reign of the empire. Turns out my son is a force wielder and became a gang banger and started murdering innocent people. Instead of acting like a responsible father and trying to put an end to my son’s antics, I decided to just become the selfish smuggler”
     
  18. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Yes, it does make sense. He was caring and had a heart. He loved his son unconditionally, though Ben's behavior grieved and probably baffled him. That was why he doesn't hunt down his son to shoot him like a mad dog. He went back to the only thing he was ever "good at"--smuggling. That's what canon says. You don't have to like to like what TPTB did with Han, but it is what it is.
     
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  19. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    @Plagueis 1138 it just sounds like you are upset that in the end Han chose family over anything else. But, isn't that exactly what you are arguing against? You're saying he's always run from attachment, except for the times where he put others ahead of himself. Isn't that exactly what he did in TFA? He ran from his conflict until he realized it was bigger than him, and he needed to do something, and could do something, about the fact that his son was lost to darkness.
     
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  20. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    No. I am saying having him repeat essentially the same arc in a New Hope is a mishandle of the character and aimed for fan service. There’s a reason why many people thought his death scene was not handled well and I am articulating why I think that is. I’m gonna sound like a broken record but making him a man child who goes back to being smuggler because his son becomes a gang banger doesn’t fit with the fearless character we saw before.

    I am simply saying that had he been a pro-active character prior to his death scene, it would’ve made his death more resonant, especially had we known about his relationship with his son other than some vague backstory
     
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