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SPECULATION Official Knights of Ren in Episode VIII Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by JediMasterRobert, Mar 11, 2016.

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Are the KOR Acolytes of the Beyond?

  1. Yes!

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
  2. No! They have nothing to do with them.

    24 vote(s)
    49.0%
  3. Yes! At least they were...

    20 vote(s)
    40.8%
  1. hadynnn

    hadynnn Rebel General

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    I'm split. Part of me thinks we'll get more info, and part of me thinks we might hear nothing. As someone who grew up watching the OT on VHS I have to ask: did folks spend years waiting for TESB and ROTJ to explain the Clone Wars more in depth? Feels like we might be in a similar situation now with the KoR.
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    as part of the OT generation i can definitely say for myself and my brothers, we never "waited" for answers. what wasn't answered was just a fun mystery for us to use our imaginations to fill in. but back then there was so little precedence for long-running sequels and expanded universes and whatnot. Star Wars was really one of the things that precipitated all that, but it was never expected.

    and though i definitely want to know more about the KOR, in the end i'd be perfectly okay with never finding anything out and leaving it just a mysterious and tantalizing thing.
     
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  3. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    I don't know that we'll get a lot of details on who they are/how they came into being. But I do think that it's quite probable that they'll be involved in the main plot this time.
     
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  4. Snap Wexley

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    I hope the Knights of Ren are force-weilders. I think it'd be cool if they were once Kylo's fellow Jedi apprentices whom he convinced to turn to the dark side. Perhaps Kylo led the Knights of Ren in a revolt against Luke and the rest of their fellow students (which we may see a glimpse of in Rey's vision).

    I could also see the Knights of Ren being some kind of Sith cult like the Disciples of Ragnos: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Disciples_of_Ragnos

    If the Knights of Ren are indeed force-wielders, I'm not sure why the they didn't have lightsabers in Rey's vision. I suppose it's possible that they weren't able to find enough kyber crystals to craft their own lightsabers. I think I read somewhere that Kylo's crystal is cracked (hence the flickering blade and exhaust quillons). If kyber crystals are indeed scarce, that would explain why Kylo had to settle for a cracked crystal and why the Knights of Ren are using melee weapons instead of lightsabers.
     
    #104 Snap Wexley, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  5. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    I kind of like the idea of elite warriors who aren't FS themselves, but still believe in it and worship the ideals of the DS. Sort of a "dark mirror" to Lor Sen Tekka's group on Jakku.

    I'm not really all that keen on MORE of Luke's students going dark. I'm fine with Ben going dark and killing the others but jeez, give the guy a break. At least Obi Wan only had one student that went dark.
     
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  6. Kazdan Piell

    Kazdan Piell Rebel Trooper

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    I find it unlikely that the Knights of Ren will be force users. It's certainly not impossible but unlikely. I think they probably are the group mentioned in Aftermath. Acolytes of the Beyond. Their interests would match Kylo's in terms of being dark side fanatics. Why mention them in a highly marketed piece of new canon and not use them again? Once Kylo found out about them he probably used them to help find Vader's mask.

    Another point which makes me suggest that they are not force users is the fact none of them have lightsabers. We have seen very few force wielders in canon with no sabers. I saw someone else had written that maybe Kyber crystals were scarce and that could be why and also why Kylo has a cracked crystal. However Kylo has chosen a cracked crystal on purpose based on the old Sith design as he believes it to be more powerful.

    Without lightsabers I find it hard to believe that the Knights of Ren were involved in the destruction of the Jedi Academy as the lightsaber is such a superior weapon. Furthermore as Han said in TFA: "One boy destroyed it all".

    I like the idea that Kylo destroyed the academy on his own as it makes him far more dangerous and powerful than shown in TFA where I don't believe we saw the full extent.

    I think the Knights of Ren are non-force sensitive dark side fanatics used by Kylo to further his obsession with Vader encouraged by Snoke.
     
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  7. Snap Wexley

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    You guys make good points. I think it would make sense for the Knights of Ren to be some kind acolytes or worshippers of the dark side. That's probably the direction they'll go with them.

    Force-weidlers or not, I do hope we get to see them in combat. I presume that they're formidable warriors if they accompanied Kylo to whatever massacre we see depicted in Rey's vision. One of the Knights in the vision has a big cleaver kind of weapon – I'd love to see him/her wield that thing in a battle.
     
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  8. Kazdan Piell

    Kazdan Piell Rebel Trooper

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    I would certainly like to see them in action too. However I have a feeling we might not get much more of them in Episode 8 unless Kylo goes hunting for someone/something again. That could be awesome maybe another Sith artifact or information about Rey/Luke.

    I wonder who it was they were massacreing in that vision. It's not the Jedi Academy. It could be some of the other KOR and their leader. It is interesting that the one that Kylo stabs is just credited as 'Clan Leader'. I hope we find that out in 8 but I feel like its more likely to be through other canonical materials like bloodlines.

    That is of course is that a flash back and not flash forward as Jedi often have. Most likely flashback as it seems to be the history of the saber Rey touches. Possibly what Kylo was hunting in that vision but Maz escapes with it. Might explain why he thinks it belongs to him.
     
  9. Augie Ben Doggie

    Augie Ben Doggie Rebelscum

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    I noticed that tidbit from the stills posted on the official site last week, too. Either Pablo's not fully up to speed or the licensing and web content departments really messed up.
     
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  10. Snap Wexley

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    I wonder if the Knights of Ren will be present for or participate in the completion of Kylo's training? (I'm assuming that we'll see part of Kylo's training with Snoke in VIII).

    I'd love to see a training scene that has Kylo sparring with the other Knights of Ren. That would be so cool.

    I wonder if the other Knights have already completed their training or if their training is still incomplete like Kylo's? I guess if they're not force-sensitive then they don't need to be trained. They do have weapons though, so I'm guessing they have been trained in some form of combat.
     
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  11. Just Passing Through

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    Woah there! Let's just remember the first part of Pablo's reply: 'Too early to say for sure'.

    I'm not saying that they won't be non-FS but it's too early to say that this debate is over.
     
    #111 Just Passing Through, Apr 5, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
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  12. Snap Wexley

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    I completely agree. I'm not convinced one way or another, but I kind of hope they are Force-sensitive. I like the idea of having more than 2 dark side users.
     
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  13. FN-3263827

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    what's curious to me about this is: Kylo Ren joined the KOR and became their master, so presumably it's because he has more power/ability than they do. that's kinda interesting for someone who himself has not completed his training.

    here's a couple of thoughts (apply to FS, non-FS for the KOR as you will):
    • Ren is powerful; we know this from his ability to stop blaster bolts, etc. ~ even if his training isn't "complete" that doesn't mean he isn't an able annihilation machine already. the question is how much more powerful can he get?
    • his "style" with a lightsaber in the end fight (or lack of one, as some people have insisted):
      • could be chucked to his physical and/or mental state, the fact that he doesn't regularly spar with other lightsaber wielders (or have a master who can teach him specific forms), or he's just not well trained.
      • there's also the off-chance that Adam Driver isn't very coordinated or graceful, but i haven't watched him move enough to determine if that's the case. also, Kylo Ren himself isn't very coordinated or graceful (and i would say this is exaggerated compared to Driver's normal physicality), so it could be entirely within character!
      • all that said, he put Finn down almost instantly once he realized he was actually vulnerable and he could have done the same to Rey if he hadn't been smitten...i mean playing with her.
    it doesn't paint a good picture for the KOR for their Master to be so rough around the edges. if he is so "untrained" then what must they be?

    i would argue that we likely did not see Ren at his best in TFA.
    give him a serious opponent and he can probably get it together.
    give him someone (or 7 someones) to command, and he can probably stay focused.

    either way he'll be a force to be reckoned with in viii and hopefully we get to see his knights be scary-ass-mofos as well.
     
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  14. Snap Wexley

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    Those are some great points. I agree that it's curious that Kylo is the master of the Knights of Ren despite his incomplete training. I wonder if Snoke appointed him to that position to inflate his ego and make him feel more important and powerful (I think this idea may have been mentioned in this thread before).

    I also like the point you made about Kylo's lightsaber skills. I agree that we didn't see his best in TFA. In his duels with Finn and Rey it seems that he wasn't able to completely focus and channel the dark side because he felt weakened after killing Han. Here's a quote from the novel that alludes to this:

    "Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened."

    Not to mention Kylo had been shot with a bowcaster and was losing blood. That would throw anyone off their game.
     
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  15. FN-3263827

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    i've said that (probably in this thread) and still believe it. this is the biggest reason i think the KOR aren't FS.
    it's easy to make Ren their master if they can't compete with him on any level because of his powers.
    if they are the binary to the Church of the Force, than that's what we're looking at.

    i guess you could also emphasize the point that Ren's lightsaber skills are just naturally rough in general (like everything about him).
    ether way he's clearly not lacking some amount of training/skill.
    and it's obviously a directorial choice to make the fight less about the pretty dancing business of the PT and more about characterization.
     
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  16. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    I'm thinking more and more the flashback scene we see of the Knights of Ren are of a fight they had with the Acolytes of the Beyond who collected the lightsaber and Maz was present at the event. How she ties into this is a critical element I feel. Maybe she was once upon a time the leader of the Acolytes of Beyond? Hmm. That would be quite the plot twist.
     
    #116 BB-Rey, Apr 5, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
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  17. Darth Spocktor

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    We've seen the Knights on screen, already in the first film in this trilogy. There's no way we aren't seeing more of them. To me the Knights seem similar to the Emperor's Royal Guard, except with a bigger role. Minions of Snoke, I can only presume.
     
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  18. Snap Wexley

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    I loved the Emperor's Royal Guards as a kid and I'm disappointed that we didn't get to see more of them (I guess there was that scene in ROTS when Yoda made them seem completely pointless). I hope the Knights of Ren have a more important role than the Royal Guards.
     
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  19. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Off course we expect to see more of them, just seeing them in one vision & then poof gone no I expect them & Kylo to go up against Luke,Rey & Finn in a big clash.
     
  20. GotTheSilver

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    I'm with you on this one, also being of the OT generation. When the OT movies were coming out, I couldn't wait to see what was going to happen next. I didn't care about them explaining anything left open from the previous movie. I always liked that there was obviously a backstory we did not know. Like you, I liked the mystery.

    I really cannot understand the modern obsession with having every detail explained and every question answered. I hate origin stories!!!
     
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