Official Luke Skywalker Episode VIII Discussion Thread

Apropos to nothing . . . Roman numerals sure are tricky, huh?

 

I guess. He was hired to direct the second movie and only that, so any long-term decisions were out of his control, as evidenced by TROS. I think Rian's thought process was to create a blank canvas for Star Wars to explore. It's just that it turns out not very many people wanted that canvas (at the time).

I guess? I don't fully disagree, but I think his piece is more of a reaction to what he was given in TFA. JJ set TFA up with a dozen questions and situations, but he never intended to answer any of them since he wasn't planned to come back. RJ in return answered the questions, but didn't leave anything in response, as a way of liberating the final director from any previous obligations. As a Part 2, he did his job in making the big, impactful choices that pushed the series forward in ways that would be resolved in Part 3, it's just that people didn't like his answers, not that he didn't answer them.

(Who is Snoke? It doesn't matter, because Kylo's the Big Bad now. Who is Rey? She's a nobody, because it's not her heritage that matters, but her choices. What happened to Luke? TFA gave an overview, but let me explain it in detail from three different perspectives.)

Again, Rey could have easily been a Solo or Kenobi with just as much explaining. She was a shoo-in for all three, and RJ chose to go with "none of the above" because any of the three would be an easy answer. Giving Rey a place in the story was the easy way out for the story and the character in his eyes, building her own place was a lot harder to do (to the point that JJ couldn't do it).

@NinjaRen is right here.
Trevorrow was hired in August 2015 (after Jurassic World released)
Pre-production started in February 2016
Carrie Fisher died in December 2016
The Book of Henry released in August 2017
Trevorrow left Episode IX in September 2017
JJ was announced as the new director in September 2017

Now Trevorrow and Kennedy may have been at odds before Carrie's passing, but he didn't officially leave until after she had passed and his latest movie flopped.

I can't speak for the lack of Ghost Luke, since what I know of DOTF's public drafts, he's not in it a lot, but I can think of a few reasons why Lucasfilm may or may not have wanted a Ghost Luke in the movie in the same fashion despite Force Ghosts being prevalent in the OT. Either way, the Ninja's timeline still is accurate.


https://variety.com/2017/film/news/colin-trevorrow-exits-star-wars-episode-ix-1202548088/
https://variety.com/2017/film/news/...isode-ix-director-colin-trevorrow-1202548094/

Agreed. Episode IX is one of my least favorite films ever. But I've moved past hatred and into pity, so yay progress?

I pity JJ, but I don't absolve him of fault. JJ was given a smaller timeframe to make the pieces fit together, so he went back to what worked before with previous movies and franchises - nostalgia. It worked for Mission Impossible, Star Trek, and even Star Wars once before, so who was to say it wouldn't work again? Clearly it didn't for us, but I understand why the choices were made.

 

To be very clear: I have no intension of misleading anybody on anything and I certainly don't profess to be a ST expert. I just recalled listening to a podcast where a long-time Trevorrow associate talked about the "Caught between a rock and a hard place" bind that the death of Luke Skywalker in RJ's TLJ put Colin in.

What was said was that Trevorrow tried hard to salvage as much of his original script as possible by rewriting Luke as a 'force ghost' (which I'm guessing you can certify as true.) According to Colin's work associate, that script revision was STILL 'too much Luke' for Lucasfilm's taste. Of course, it should be pointing out this was just one side of the Trevorrow/Lucasfilm 'parting of the ways' story.

And yes, I was wrong about Carrie's death. I thought it was December of 2017, not 2016. My bad.

 

I don't think that's true. I've read almost everything about CT's story and it seems like he was the only one who actually wanted to focus mainly on the new characters. The ST was never going to be about Luke, even in Lucas' ST Luke would have had a minor part.

 

Which in retrospect really highlights the differences in the philosophy of the ST and the movie we did get. I guess Lucasfilm wanted the ST to be a sort of last hurrah for our old heroes and wanted the new characters to have the same sort of reverence for them as fans do. But that doesn't sound really like a good story so much as a nostalgia-filled victory lap. Oh, it could have worked, and I think did work for the most part, but it's not what the story needed so much as what the company needed IMO.

 

I'll bow to your greater knowledge on the subject. But your comment is completely contrary to the podcast I listened to on Trevorrow's departure. I wish to heck I could recall which SW podcast I heard it on but it really pushed Colin's commitment to Luke as the primary reason he bailed.

What made the Trevorrow side's comments ring true to me was that it was blatantly obvious at that time that Lucasfilm / Disney was all about promoting the 'new' SW characters & movies at the expense of the 'old' gang and their SW films. The clearest example was Disney's bizarro decision to build their Star Wars theme park exclusively around the ST (which has cost them serious $$$).

Anyhoo, it's all water under the bridge now. Thanks for sharing.

 

In retroperspective I wish they would have done this even more. Maybe TFA should have been the only ST movie which features the OT.

 

I'm not sure I'd go THAT far, but I do see the point, and can't necessarily disagree. I think post-TLJ, the reliance on the OT should have absolutely been turned down, or at least been less physical and more emotional and metaphorical in terms of legacy and whatnot. I.e. Leia's legacy is the Republic, so make it clear that our heroes have linked the two and are fighting for that. Luke's legacy is the Jedi, so make it clear that rebuilding that sense of community and contextualizing what it means in this world is important. Kylo has shunted off all legacies, so he is isolated and alone, but is also doing things that no one else has done because of it. Things like that.

 

Sorry if this has been said, but Mark and Adam both gave outstanding performances in this film. Mark's was a career best, and frankly both of them deserved to be nominated for awards. I did see the performances of some of the year's nominees, and Adam and Mark were just as good.

 

I don't care about the awards. But yes, It is the best performance by Mark for sure and my favorite Luke in the saga.

 

There was a lot of criticism over Luke being so 'jaded', as well as him being responsible for Kylo running to Snoke, but I didn't see it like that.
People get cynical as they get older, I know I did! Luke was a middle aged man, not the idealistic youth he was in the OT, and if you watch the OT again, you see he changed even there, from film to film, from the starry eyed boy who longed for adventure to a sadder, wiser man. And as it is stated quite firmly in the film, he DID NOT contemplate killing his nephew - it was a momentary impulse, a spur of the moment thought that, to quote Luke, 'passed like a fleeting shadow', but sadly Ben reacted instinctively and Luke never had the chance to explain. Add to that Snoke's presence in his head, which is probably the 'dark' Luke sensed in him, all designed to get his hands on Han and Leia's son.
Luke at the end of the film was very true to character...remember, he beat Palpatine by throwing away his weapon. This spurred his father to kill his former master and save his son. At the end of TLJ he once again chose a non violent method to defeat Kylo - saving his sister and the remaining rebels, whilst allowing his unhappy nephew to vent his hurt and rage without again having the death of a family member on his conscience. I also thought it was an AMAZING display of power from Luke, and a great send off for him. I know a lot of Luke fans feel differently but for me, I thought it was a fitting arc for his character. And Jedi can always come back as FGs.

 

Every claim that Luke was ruined/changed in TLJ is backed up by a false premise or willful misconstruing of what happened. Fans can have an ego regarding certain characters and expect instant gratification of it at almost all times. Asking them to endure an image of Luke having suffered a true catastrophe, for which the amount of responsibility he should bear is debatable at best and at times thoroughly obscure, was just too much for some fans. if they weren't getting a serenely heroic Luke right off the bat, then it was tantamount to Lucasfilm telling them that said heroic figure is not Luke Skywalker and vice versa. It was perceived similar to when George told fans that the prequels weren't giving them what they wanted because what they wanted was wrong. What Geroge Lucas wanted was right. And if they liked Star Wars because of that then they liked Star Wars for the wrong reasons.

Some people are, at times, not interested in an arc. They want their adoration for the character to be endorsed and upheld at all times, in the moment. And if it isn't they feel like the movie is taking something away from them. Control.

Look how some people are reacting to Luke having to cope with giving his first pupil some hard choices, to commit to life as a Jedi knight, or to walk away for the sake of his friendships. Some just cannot tolerate Luke even coming close to making a wrong decision. Even though it's his first attempt at teaching a youngling, and he is trying to restore the Jedi. Not to form his own new religion. He's doing what's expected of him. But supposedly Luke is supposed to have this enormous perspective on the history of the Jedi at this time and be able to be objective about their failings. It produces tension if you're beloved characters look like they might be making a mistake. But here we go again with the "ruining" Luke accusations.

 

Just a quick OT response to the notion Luke did something wrong with Grogu.

In the Ep.5 of TBoBF, Luke tells Ahsoka that he senses Grogu's 'heart is not in it.' So he uses Mando's gift as a way of determining how committed Grogu is. As it turns out, Luke was right: Grogu wasn't totally into it. The choice Luke gave Grogu was a great way of bringing the issue to a head.

 

I know it's crazy...but when Luke said in TLJ 'It's time for the Jedi to end' I actually agreed with him.