Official Rey Episode VIII thread

A garbage story? lol on what basis? what makes it a garbage story? something happened that you didn't like, or do you actually have some point to share that carries a valid argument explaining your claim?

I am genuinely curious

 

Ok, half of the film could be cut away and it wouldn't affect anything. Lets list all the character inconsistencies.

Kylo ren abducted/tortured rey, gutted han in front of her, nearly killed her first friend, and nearly killed/maimed her. Nearly a month later she cares enough about him to raise her saber to luke? wat? She nearly took his face off when they fought.

Holdo could've prevented a whole blast storm if she just told people her plan, instead she "didn't want to be viewed as a hero." (what...the...Blast?)

Superman leia. Possibly the dumbest blast i've seen in my adult life.

Chewie drops rey off to meet kylo. (LOL wut!?!?)

Rey watched kylo kill his father after being offered an olive branch, so naturally she figures she can succeed where han failed. Her dumbass got tortured again.

Rey, a character who bodied kylo ren 5 hours after learning that the force exists, acted like she was afraid of him. She was on some beaten dog blast every time they force skyped.

Force skype.

Holdo has this big moment where she sacrifices herself. Why do we care? we just met holdo. Keep in mind that RJ kills akbar off screen. Why not have akbar make the big sacrifice. Huge character moment, brilliant send off that we actually care about on an emotional level. Nope, blow him up off screen and have this new throw away character do the sacrifice. Bad story telling instincts.

Finn's character. Finn wakes up saying "rey!". wants to leave to go find rey. What happens at the end when he finally reunites with rey? they hug but don't even catch up? Sorry but its obvious RJ desperately did not want these two to interact. Best part of TFA was completely missing.


RJ doubles down on rey being neo while giving her the most blatantly uninteresting background ever. It also retroactively makes her a moron. I'm sorry rey, but you wanted to get back to jakku/your life of slavery so you could continue waiting for the people who sold you into slaver for drugs and a ship? I'm almost ashamed that I saw you on the same level as Jyn Erso. Fun fact: rey grew up on a desert planet, but can still swim. Amateur writers don't pay attention to basic blast like this because they're only focused on what they want to make happen and are unconcerned with crafting the ends and outs of a character.

Finn repeats his arc from the first film, but with rose (a character created to force some unearned bantha poodoo romance in order to keep finn away from rey) standing in for rey.

Rose stopping finn from his big moment made no sense. She also ensured that tons of rebels would now be slaughtered. Nice going. All because she loved some guy she knew for one day. Dumbass twilight level writing.

A stupid tug of war over anakin's lightsaber. Question: why the Blast didn't this happen in the first film? Oh right, rian johnson is ignoring everything about TFA.

The entire notion that only now "anybody can use the force.", is dumb because its ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. The story has just been focused on the skywalkers all this time. So instead of toning the force=dbz aspect, they ramp it up and turn the force into a deus ex machina.

The resistance fleet has a fuel problem. *facepalm*

Phasma and Hux. Both characters received little development in TFA, now is the time to expand a bit. Nope, lets double down on phasma being created to sell toys and lets make hux a parody. This is evidence of a lack of inspiration and creativity. Hux and phasma's actual backstories can make for some amazing character moments. btw, hux is a character that actually has a sympathetic backstory.

Kylo ren is clearly the only character RJ had any drive to write.

Luke and rey's characters were torched in order to drum up sympathy for kylo ren. Except, his backstory only serves to have the opposite affect. I'd expect nothing less from the same pretentious clown who wrote looper.

Teases reylo for the whole movie, then apparently closes that door before resetting everyone's inter personal relationships. lol wat?

Luke dying form force exhaustion is almost as dumb as superman leia. Yoda pulled the same stunt in rebels, yet he was chillin. More of RJ's lame attempt at being "edgy".


Now lets go over all the evidence that RJ intentionally ignored TFA in order to belligerently force his fan fiction to play out. We'll highlight some of the plot threads that are completely glossed over.


Anakin's lightsaber and who found it. Han literally asked the question in TFA, but it was kicked down the field.


"some say he was looking for the first jedi temple" Ok so luke wasn't just hiding and being a sad old man, he was looking for answers as to jedi lore and why the cycle continues. I'm looking forward to more explanation of the force and old jedi lore. I wonder if we'll actually see our first on screen holocro-psych! luke was just really sad and does not care that his twin sister is losing a desperate war that he could've prevented years ago. Oh and uh, who cares that han is dead. Totally in character for the guy that sensed his friend being tortured across the galaxy and before it even happened.

Han was killed in TFA. Do you care luke? Do we have any moment of actual mourning?

Supreme leader snoke. Big one. I wasn't a fan of the whole emperor rehash. I saw the middle chapter as a chance to really distinguish the character. He seemed to view the light as equally important in the force. He had a black kyber crystal in his ring. He's supposed to be super super old and insanely powerful. Like luke, he's a chance to expand on sith/darkside lore. What other sith artifacts does this guy have. Where did he come from? How did he come to lead the FO? What exactly does he see in kylo ren? What are his goals? Nah, lets turn him into a jobber and kill him off in the most unintentionally hilarious way imaginable. A character that can read people's minds.....is sneak killed by a guy standing right in front of him. Awesome, so unique. That didn't go the way I thought it would.

Finn. Finn is the same character, on the same arc. I've never seen someone freeze a character for a whole chapter, but...ok.

The Galaxy. Its amazing that we still don't have a sense of the broader galaxy. The middle chapter is always where you do some serious world building. (its also super fun to do.) Look at empire and the two towers. Serious world building.

The biggest one for me. The knights of Maclunkey ren. Holy blast what a cool idea. Are they acolytes of the beyond? Former luke students? The film seems to hint that its the latter. Ok, so....where are they? Why are they separate from their leader? Why are they not even mentioned? Why are we dealing with this canto bight bantha poodoo instead of expanding on the actual good ideas from TFA?



Its obvious that in his sloppy attempt at being needlessly edgy, Rian Johnson forgot that these movies are first and foremost, for families. I know you disagree with how I feel about the film, but my feelings aren't because of any headcanon. My only head canon was finn jedi and i gave up on that actually happening months ago. I expected actual, meaningful character growth. It feels like RJ wrote one draft and then said "we got it.". All these little character eff ups just show that his focus was only on kylo ren. Ren is the only character in the film that feels like he went on an actual arc. Rey is relegated to the battered girlfriend role. Luke goes on an arc that he already went on when he was in his early 20's. Then we had at least 3 new throw away characters that served a pointless purpose. If theres anything that will piss me off in a story, its OBVIOUS potential that is completely slept on. There are a million different ways the story, the character arcs, and the plot lines could've gone that would've been fresh and original, but without torching the narrative that came before. This is the middle chapter. You expand on what came before, close certain plot lines/move them forward, and you set up possible directions for what comes next. Instead, you kill phasma, kill snoke and make kylo and hux the two remaining villains. So....i'm guessing kylo is not to be redeemed as general hux is no threat. Anyway, i'm (unfortunately) going to see this blast again in the morning. If i catch anymore bantha poodoo, i'll let you guys know.

 

Or hell, video games like Fire Emblem or Castlevania, that get the point of a "family saga" better than this movie does!

 

Epic post @Blastaar .

Yeah Johnson is an "the ends justify the means" writer for TLJ, even if that means doing stupid nonsense and ruining things to get to his bullet points he wants to accomplish.

 

I read every sentence you wrote and I have the following:

I respect your opinion, but you gave me nothing here to debate other than the clear evidence of your disposition in regard to the movie. You are a star wars fan stuck in the past, hanging onto the tropes of the past films desperately fighting change and the introduction of something different. I can summarize everything you have said into one statement.

Things didn't happen the way I liked. RJ didn't answer the lingering questions I wanted answers for and I have trouble accepting change... Sprinkle in a little bit of the inability to sympathize with characters and individuals who feel and think differently than I do (Your claims regarding Rey's/Luke/Finn's motivations)

We must not have watched the same movie, or you are just a bit out of touch with emotional depth. That is my observation after reading your post. You literally gave me nothing to combat on a logical level in regard to the central argument: your claim that SW: TLJ was a bad movie.

It just wasn't and your statements here do nothing to even challenge my thinking here.

 

Wow, your response to Blastaar was just ad hominem and strawmanning. He listed plenty of logical and storytelling flaws in the film, and how it failed to live up to the promise of TFA.

I think we're really seeing here how much this sequel trilogy needed one person overseeing all three films, like a Kevin Feige. They gave Johnson too much freedom. The OT worked because Lucas was in charge at the end of the day, even as he was surrounded with talent.

I wonder how much of a better film we could have gotten if Abrams had assumed the Lucas overseer role. Hopefully he can salvage something from this very problematic middle chapter.

 

I just disagree wholeheartly. There was really nothing in his argument that was a coherent logical concept that I could grasp onto and form a counter argument. His points had no substance, just pure emotional dissatisfaction.

The movie made sense, and fits the SW lore and Skywalker storyline near perfectly.

Give me a logical argument and I will gladly share my counter arguments

 

And what did he ruin? Your Solo theory?

 

Luke Skywalker. Finn. Snoke. Rey now a weak female protagonist whining to men and sidelined in the story. Leia turned into a space floating joke. The mostly bad humor in the style of bathos in the movie. The lack of a standard lightsaber fight. Many things.

 

So Rey with her books is supposed to be the master of all the jedi to come ?

After 2 lessons ? OK ...

 

I have to admit, its starting to get a little annoying when people just drone on about "oh you didn't like the film because you're stuck in the past" or "i have trouble accepting change". You asked me why i called TLJ a garbage story. I told you all the character inconsistencies. (that i could think of off top of the head.) I listed unresolved plot threads, sloppy story telling choices, repeated character arcs, etc. You can't combat what i said on a logical level because what I said was correct. I know one thing, people need to stop ragging on bayformers because apparently folks are cool with characters behaving out of character and film makers who pose questions/start up plot lines, but then ignore them moving forward. Alien covenant is an example of this. Prometheus was a trash movie, but at least continue that story if you're making a sequel. Nope, instead he torched what came before (apparently dr. shaw was a moron after all.) and even managed to eff up the lore surrounding the xenomorph. Now that i think about it....perhaps riddly scott is what you get when you don't have the greatest story telling ability, yet everyone keeps harping about how "talented" you are. hmmm, scott is like a future version of johnson.


EDIT: check this. Aliens. James Cameron came in to write and direct the sequel to Alien. Instead of rehashing everything, he made a totally different film. He didn't burn down alien and replace it with his story. He took alien and its lore; and expanded into something insanely simple and creative. The xenomorph are a hive society, queen and all. Maclunkey genius. So simple, yet look how it treats the source material. It doesn't retroactively make Alien ridiculous or silly. Thats because unlike RJ, James Cameron is creative. He wanted to make it more action based, but still even maintained the suspense thriller aspect of it. Aliens is a perfect example of taking things in a new direction without blundering through a story while carpet bombing the film's predecessor. If RJ wanted to make a totally off the rails story, then an original trilogy would've been the best place for that. If you can't continue a story properly, then step the Blast off.

 

Ok, this is turning into a 'I hate TLJ' thread, there are loads of them already. Lets keep this on Rey.

What i am most excited to see is what lightsaber Rey will make, using the kyber crystal from the Skywalker lightsaber.

I'm hoping for a double bladed lightsaber. Imagine the excitement when she first ignites both blades.

 

i would love this too. and it would be thematically cool as another example of "balance".
also, by not reconstructing Anakin's saber, it would demonstrate that there are aspects of "letting the past die" that are valid.
Ben and Rey need to meet in the middle and the saber is already telling that story.

 

Who is going to teach her how to make a lightsaber ? The books ?

 

I agree, I am quite excited about this as well. I will no longer discuss the whole "people who hate TLJ" here in this thread. I think that argument is just a lost cause anyway.

Back on topic. I hope it is a blue double bladed saber. That would be so amazing

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2017 ---

We can carry this out in another thread...

 

Rey aint a “weak female protag” tho, not responding to the rest of your post because there is plenty enough of that arguing in this thread.

She never “whines” to any men, but is instead compassionate and caring about their problems because she understands they are human beings with their own issues.So what, those emotions are signs of weakness than strength?

And when they let her down, she doesn’t huff and whinge as a counter, she gets on with it and acts in her own agency.

With Kylo she gets close to him because Luke frustrates her and she relates to his loneliness and issues with the past, not forgiving him for Hans death but understanding that he’s been in an unhealthy abusive environment for the past 7 years, and that factored into him killing Han. When he’s all “be dark side with me”, she soundly rejects him and goes on to make him look like an idiot by tearing his FO fleet apart at Crait with the falcon, reminding him that the past doesn’t die in the process.

With Luke, she leaves him when he lets her down at having hidden the fact he created Kylo Ren from her, even taking the sacred Jedi texts with her. She values the jedi past his teachings.

 

no. where did you see that? She's not a master nor even a jedi

 

And who's gonna do this ?

 

I don't know, but saying after two days is silly when it never indicated such nonsense.

 

What implies she’s gonna immediately head into the world, find a random force sensitive person, say “ur my new pandawan” and immediately start teaching them?

She’s a sensible person. She’ll probably study the texts herself, and then take on a student only after she feels she’s ready and has learned enough.

And after the whole rebellion business ofc.