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SPOILER Okay, let's talk about Vader

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by thrawn_lives, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. thrawn_lives

    thrawn_lives Clone Commander

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    So now we know force ghosts are still a thing. The big question I still have after seeing this film is... where is Anakin? I still think that Kylo speaking to Vader's mask in TFA is important by implying he has been shown the power of the dark side by his grandfather. I think Vader's ghost is out there, and not just in the form of Anakin.

    Lots of things to think about in the wake of this film, and this may never get addressed in the movies. But I really hope the books flesh it out.
     
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The Yoda ghost opened so many possibilities. Not least that he physically interacted with the world. I always thought Force ghosts would likely disappear over time. Not so. I think we’ll likely see the return of some other characters in IX.
     
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  3. Leo626

    Leo626 Rebel Trooper

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    I had a theory going into this film that we would definitely see a force ghost and that the force ghost we saw would be reflective of who Rey's parents are. If she was a Kenobi, we would see Obi-Wan (obviously). If she was a Skywalker or Solo-Skywalker then we would see Anakin and if she was "nobody" we would see Yoda. As soon as Yoda appeared to Luke I thought, "yep, she's a nobody!"

    (fyi I was hoping to see Anakin)
     
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  4. thehiredgun

    thehiredgun Rebel General

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    Snoke Ghost vs Luke Ghost - Episode IX - you saw it here first!
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Vader is....
    giphy (22).gif

    Only Anakin remains. I think it's entirely possible to believe that Snoke was manipulating Ren the whole time into thinking he was Vader speaking.
     
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  6. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    Let’s not forget that he physically interacts with the world on Ahch-To specifically, a place which is a pure and strong concentration of the Force like Dagobah and Mortis (Visual Dictionary).
    Luke seems somewhat surprised at seeing Yoda, so I think there’s a chance that he hasn’t seen him in a while (the whole Awakening thing, etc.). I’m going to be very surprised if we don’t see Anakin and/or Vader as a Force spirit in IX at this point, considering how the focus on Vader was much more apparent in TLJ than TFA (he’s talked about more, we hear Imperial March more, etc.).
     
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  7. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Luke had cut himself off from the Force; I think it's a safe bet he hasn't seen him or Obi Wan or any one else.
     
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  8. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I don't think it was Vader he was talking to but Snoke. Now Snoke is gone and Kylo will realise the truth.

    Anakin has to appear in Episode IX. There is no way around it.
     
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  9. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    Perhaps. But let’s not forget that we already know that Dark Side entities can attach their conscious essence to objects, such as the helmets given to the Acolytes of the Beyond in the Aftermath trilogy, or The Presence to the Sith holocron in Rebels.

    I think it’s a fairly likely possibility, given what we know, that the conscious essence of Vader is attached to objects used by him, specifically his helmet (and perhaps even the Skywalker legacy lightsaber? That could be one of many reasons Kylo’s after that), and that Anakin will appear as a Force spirit.
     
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  10. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Anakin should appear to knock some sense into his grandson. It'd be good for Ben to have his idol look down on him and tell him why he's being an idiot.

    I think Sabre, helmet feels too dark side. Maybe even independent of them, if Kylo goes to Mustafar or Tatooine or some other planet.
     
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  11. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    Sorry, I’ll just clarify: I think that Kylo sees an apparition of Vader from the helmet, as we know that the Dark Side can attach itself to such objects, and that the Force spirit of Anakin isn’t attached to any one thing in particular, as it wouldn’t need to be.
     
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  12. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Ah Okay. Fair enough. Maybe he'll see Vader mourning Padme and finally clue in that love ain't a weakness.
     
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  13. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The Skywalker saga started with Anakin and it would make sense to finish it with him. I am pretty sure we are going to see Vaders castel again on Mustafar and this si where I would expect force ghost Anakin to show up. The Mustafar castle surely is a point of interest for Kylo and now that he is the Supreme leader he can pursue his own personal interests rather than Snoke's. I think it's also interesting how they seemingly dropped a subtle hint in the Complete Visual Dictionary that Vader's castle is an important factor moving forward.
     
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  14. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel General

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    This is correct, and why Yoda says "I've missed you young Skywalker" or something to that effect...
     
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  15. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Because when 900 you reach, everyone else is young. :D

    Luke was cut of from the Force approximately six years, that is also why he doesn't know Han died nor he felt disturbance in the Force when Hosnian Prime was destroyed.
     
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  16. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebelscum

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    Luke shut himself off from the force, which is why I believe he hadn't seen a force ghost for a while. I think only someone in tune with the force can see a force ghost. At the end of ROTJ only Luke saw the ghosts.
     
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  17. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    @Rayjefury @LadyMusashi @Deac421

    I don’t think that Luke cutting himself off from the Force is the only reason that he hasn’t seen a Force spirit in a while; even if he hadn’t cut himself off from it, I think there’s reason to believe that he wouldn’t have been able to commune with them for other reasons.

    I’ve talked about it before, but I think that The Awakening in The Force Awakens is what brings them back into the fold: we know that the Force spirits exist between the two realms of the Force - the living Force and the cosmic Force - and that a change in one has an effect on the other. With the Force being dormant for a period prior to The Force Awakens, there aren’t two realms for the Force spirits to exist between: they might have taken on another form, or could simply have not existed at all.
     
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  18. Lukee1811

    Lukee1811 Force Sensitive

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    I'm so looking forward to the moment when we see Hayden with good lines. Or you know what would be awesome? Kylo literally being taunted and haunted by both Luke and Anakin and driven crazy by it.
     
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  19. The Last Deadeye

    The Last Deadeye Rebel General

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    I think Anakin may be the only way to redeem Ben Solo at this point. Rey might accept him if he takes the initiative, but she is not going to take the initiative at this point. Since Leia is gone, this might be the only way, his idol, Anakin/Vader, telling him the whole story, what he did wrong. And then Luke appearing as a force ghost and telling him he still believes in him. That would be very powerful.
     
  20. Dr. Kenobi

    Dr. Kenobi Rebelscum

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    I don't believe that Kylo Ren is really communicating with Vader through that helmet. I think it is reflective of his desire to rationalize his dark side. Conflicted, he has pushed away his living family and embraced the dark ancestor.

    I don't believe there is a Vader spirit AND a redeemed Anakin.
     
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