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SPECULATION Plot Thoughts

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Ben-K-OB1, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    The Force Awakens almost opened with Lukes severed hand. So what if that concept stuck with JJ and Rey is a clone from that severed hand. When Rey was being trained by Luke and she went into the cave she was shown an infinite reflection of herself. Could this mean that she was actually one of thousands of clones?

    Let's assume The Emperor created Anakin through manipulation of the force. Why would he create him? He wanted to create the most powerful force user ever so that he could take over their body and continue to live on and rule the galaxy. Unfortunately, Anakin was injured and became an imperfect vessel so the Emperor was force to bide his time until a new apprentice could be found. That new vessel was Luke Skywalker. Again his plans are foiled when Vader turns on him.

    The Emperors contingency plan kicks into effect and he is slowly rebuilding his strength in the unknown regions. He knew that if he wanted to regain power he would need to destroy the “chessboard” and start over. Using Snoke he created the First Order and started throwing the galaxy into chaos and civil war. All the while he is building a giant Sith fleet that he can use to wipe out the First Order ounce it defeats the resistance so he can be the savior of the galaxy.

    The Emperor will, of course, need a new body and persona to rule the galaxy as and using cloning tech has been making clones of Lukes hand in order to create an insanely force powerful vessel for himself to inhabit. He has managed to create clones of carrying abilities (we see one of those clones in the sizzle real wielding a double-sided red lightsaber) but was only able to make one perfect clone. Unfortunately for him, while working for The Emperor Zori Bliss finds out that The Emperor has finally created the perfect clone in Rey and she steels Rey and hides her on Jakku.

    Kylo will find out about this great Sith Fleet and will think that as a “Sith” he will be able to command this fleet and rule the galaxy unchallenged. However, when he finds the fleet he will find out he was nothing more than a pawn to be killed in order for The Emperor to regain control of the galaxy once and for all.

    The Rise of Skywalker is essentially then about how the Skywalkers came to be and how Ben will be able rise past that. It's the same concept that we saw in the cave in The Last Jedi. Rey was forced to realize she had only herself to rely on to make the right decision, she had to rise past her parentage and make the right choice. Ben will have to do the same thing so that he and Rey can team up and defeat The Emperor for good.
     
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  2. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Another thought is Rey could be something else. Created anew the same way The Emporer created Anakin. He set things in motion for Kylo to lead the first order in defeating the resistance and the republic which would kill his mother. Then the Emporer could kill Kylo. Ridding the galaxy of his disappointing Skywalker creation.
     
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  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Established timelines for the post-RotJ era do not allow for Rey to be a clone of anyone.
     
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  4. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    How so? You can store DNA the person you are cloning does not need to be alive to be cloned you just need DNA. Rey was born around 15 aby ish. She could literally be Jedi DNA mega cocktail from all the Jedi that were killed.
     
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  5. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I know the Rey a clone from Luke’s hand is a popular theory but one I am not a big fan of. No offense but I find it very cheesy. The whole purpose of that initial Luke’s hand and lightsaber scene to open TFA was to show the path the lightsaber took. This was also the main point of the Forceback scene before it was changed
     
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  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    That's not how Midichlorians work.

    Creating a Force-sensitive clone is not possible in current SW Canon per Pablo Hidalgo, which puts the kibosh on the Clone Rey theory even more solidly than timeline details such as when she was born and the state of the galaxy at that time do.
     
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  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Not sure I follow. What do you mean by this?
     
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  8. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    I’d like to see the exact Pablo quotes which supposedly rule out clones being Force-sensitive. Either way, I’m not a fan of the idea a clone couldn’t be Force-sensitive. Put simply, life creates the Force, and clones are alive... so what would be the problem? In theory anyway?

    I’m not saying Rey is definitely a clone (or that there is a clone of Rey) but I don’t see any logical reason why it couldn’t happen. ‘Pablo said on twitter’, as useful as that often is, is not an in-universe explanation why something cannot ever be. And things can change, as we have seen numerous times.

    I have no idea what the established timelines have to do with any if it either. Money and tech on a secret planet was all that was needed for an army of clones two generations ago. ?!?!? Help me Obi-Wan!
     
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  9. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    At the point in galactic history when Rey was born, Palpatine had been dead for 11 years and the First Order was still a ragtag bunch of disgraced Imperials hiding out in the Unknown Regions who could not have afforded cloning technology or the services of any who might have possessed such technology.

    However, as I just noted in my last post, timelines are irrelevant because cloning a Force-sensitive person isn't possible within current SW Canon anyway.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2019 ---


    Read the entire thread to see why Force-sensitive cloning is not possible within current SW Canon.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Eh, I guess? :rolleyes:

    I mean, I feel like that's quite a leap to say for absolute certain that they couldn't "afford" cloning tech, especially since it isn't necessarily at the same scale as the Republic's orders.

    I don't really buy it being entirely implausible.

    Maybe, but I'm hesitant to put the Force in a box of what it can and cannot do. That's kind of a big theme in the new canon now, after all.

    edit: Thanks for linking that thread. :)

    The way I read it, he's simply saying that a blood transfusion wouldn't suffice to make someone FS, but I don't think it makes it impossible for a clone to be FS. At the most, it could simply mean that a clone of an FS person wouldn't necessarily also be FS, but even that isn't necessarily confirmed by this (as a clone would obviously have more similarities from their host than simply blood).

    But again, I think trying to define the Force via science is an exercise in futility.
     
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  11. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    I had this idea this morning. Presented it in another thread about the footage. Will flesh it out a little more in this thread.

    Force imbued objects have been made canon with Luke's lightsaver in TFA and even Darth Bane in Clone Wars.

    Snoke had a ring that was made with material under Darth Vaders castle on Mustafar. Palpatine is somehow in TROS. So Snoke either makes a ring or finds the ring. Lets say that once the Empire falls and Snoke takes over the First Order he returns from the Unknown Regions. He visits Mustafar and then the fallen Death Star and Palpatine spirit is trapped and Snoke is able to trap the spirit into the ring.

    Later after Snoke is killed in TLJ the ring is in the wind. Maybe Rey took it? Maybe Kylo took it? Maybe Hux took it? Maybe someone else took it? Then perhaps in the 3rd act Rey puts on the ring. This allows Palpatine to possess and control her. This ultimately leads to another battle between Kylo/Ben and like often happens in Star Wars a limb is lost. Dark Rey loses her hand with the ring on it and is freed.
     
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  12. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    I don’t agree with your assessment of the impact of the timeline. What is established in canon is that the Emperor left many instructions behind in the event of his death (whether permanent of temporary!!) and likely huge resources squirrelled away...

    And you seem to be assuming only the Emperor could have cloned Rey anyway. Why? The Kaminoans seemed to be fairly independent / neutral /commercially-driven. And who is to say they were the only ones with cloning tech?

    On the ”current” Star Wars canon thing - Ep IX isn’t current canon yet ;) - things can change.

    Read the Pablo tweet you linked to, thanks for that. That was about blood transfusion, not cloning. So ... yeah. Not relevant IMHO.

    In the nicest possible way, I think “you assume too much” in terms of what is not possible. :)

    Edit: I read a bit further down the rabbit hole, someone asked is it not possible to engineer Force-users... Pablo’s reply was:

    “We won't know for sure unless a story makes a statement about it, but I have a hard time imagining anyone crafting a tale that narratively and thematically works on the subject. But hey, never say never!”

    So to me... that means it’s possible! Just not likely, in Pablo’s opinion. But different to 100% definitely not possible or ruled out by existing canon, isn’t it? And personally I’d say Anakin/Vader was an engineered Force user of a kind anyway...! ... point of view... blah blah. ;)
     
    #12 Porco Azzurro, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    ^ Here are the things that Pablo says that specifically discount the idea of Force-sensitive cloning:
    1) You cannot transfer Midichlorians through blood transfusion

    2) No story has ever been proposed dealing with trying to clone a Force Sensitive person

    4) He does not see how such a story would work within the boundaries of what current Canon has established regarding Midichlorians and the Force

    Because it is not possible to increase a person's Force-sensitivity through a blood transfusion, it is therefore not possible to create a Force-sensitive clone of a person because that person's Force-sensitivity would not increase even if you pumped their blood full of Midichlorians.

    Also, it has been established in Canon that the Imperial remnant that became the First Order had to generate the resources to build up their armies and technology over the course of many years and only by relying on others for help.
     
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  14. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    I don't think the first order cloned Rey. I think The Emporer did. Look at the Star Destroyer fleet in the D23 trailer. Those are not First Oder Star Destroyers those are Imperial Star Destoyers. I think that the Emporer set into motion and is using the First Order to bring the galaxy into chaos so that he can return with his Sith Fleet to "save" the galaxy. He is setting things up to wipe the slate clean.

    Now would the Emporer have the resources to clone? Yes. Would he also have access to the dead bodies of countless Jedi? Yes. To me it is conceivable that he would be working to engineer an ultra-powerful force user to control and rule with.
     

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  15. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    Again, Episode IX isn’t current canon.

    And again, I don’t see why the blood transfusion thing has anything to do with it.

    If you cloned a person, that person could be Force sensitive or not. I don’t see the relevance of blood transfusion?!

    I don’t think we know for sure why people are or aren’t Force sensitive. It’s suggested that the Force is strong in Anakin’s line ( (which itself kind of implies the possibility that if Palpatine created Anakin there is a way to make it likely the creation is highly Force Sensitive, no?)

    And maybe the First Order didn’t have loads of resources because Palpatine had embezzled it all away, that would be his style.... :D
     
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  16. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    That Vader comic sure implied he was created by Palps. [​IMG]
     
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  17. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    I’m of the opinion the movies implied it, never mind that comic... ;)

    Still, they have wiggle-room. I would really love them to spell it out unambiguously in TRoS if they get into all that.

    I have personally liked the idea that Rey was the Force’s ‘answer’ to (Plagueis and/or)Palpatine’s meddling - whether he wholly created or alternatively corrupted what would have been a less-troubled Anakin. I like the idea there is this meta-physical, spiritual battle even with a consciousness, good vs evil on every level of existence, from physical battles, to meta-physical battles (e.g. Force users), political battles and a grand eternal spiritual battle that could be revealed in more detail in Ep IX... if they want to go there.
     
    #17 Porco Azzurro, Aug 27, 2019
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  18. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    ROTS super implied it and it was actually straight up in one of the earlier scripts. I think it was always Lucas intention to have it be that way.
     
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  19. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Something to add to this. Suppose that before Rey puts the ring on we get a preview that Palpatine spirit is imbued in the ring. That preview is Rey giving the ring to C3PO to hold onto it. This leads to Palpatine taking control of C3PO for a portion of time. This leads to a WTF moment by the group. Then later Rey get's desperate or is tricked by Palpatine spirit.
     
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  20. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Some good points in this content but I think Papatine/Emperor's hidden Sith fleet will not "wipe out" the First Order but merge with them. (star destroyer) thus building a super fleet to wipe out the remaining Resistance ships, forces. This is why Disney & JJ/Lucasfilm brought out the new General Pryde fleet CO(Richard Grant).
    I was thinking early, around the period of the first TROS film trailer that the first act may be how Kylo & his KoR crew find the "way finder" Sith relic then use it to unlock Sheev P's secret Sith Fleet, which includes the massive WMD/Death Star type super ships(the pics, details are online of the new vessels). Sheev (pwned) would double cross Kylo Ren then wipe out ALL of the First Order fleet(kill Hux) then destroy/cut apart the remaining rebels-resistance forces. The galaxy would be in ruins & the remaining characters would have 1 final bold attempt to stop Palpatine & his Sith fleet.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2019 ---
    I think JJ & Disney/KK/Lucas are using the Star Wars C3PX story plot for C3PO (c-3po). They might have him contain details/secret data on where the Sith fleet is or the "way finder" relic. Much like how R2-D2 (artoo) had Luke's location hidden in his data, The Force Awakens(2015).

    The C3PX story was a droid like C3PO that was converted into a assassin, spy, sabotage expert. It had armor & several weapons, upgrades. Much like IG-88D.

    TFM
    (boba fett)
     
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