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SPECULATION Plot Thoughts

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Ben-K-OB1, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Another thought. Originally I was thinking they go to the destroyed Death Star because the spirit of Palpatine is basically trapped in its location and is operating from there. I am now thinking that maybe the reason to visit it is to destroy the McGuffin that has Palpatine's spirit trapped. In the 1st trailer when the group looks out and see the destroyed Death Star we noticed that Rey has some sort of container in her hand. Looks sorta like a backpack. Some have said that Palpatine's spirit is trapped in the mask of Darth Vader and the spirit has been manipulating Kylo Ren. Could the mask be in the backpack and they must take the mask back to where Palpatine was killed and destroy it there to finally be rid of Palpatine.
     
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  2. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    I pretty much agree with all of what you have said here. But creators can change their minds, and Pablo is not all of the Story Group, and he is not the director or writer of the films or TV shows... I think it’s important we don’t equate any one individual with George Lucas’ control over what was canon during his time. And even George changed his mind what was and wasn’t canon at various times.

    Also creators can purposefully misdirect, be misinterpreted or misquoted or occasionally make mistakes.

    In my opinion, the films are the key texts as far as I’m concerned. Those are ultimately what define canon more than tweets, by co-creators even. If the creators want to define canon in the most concrete terms, the canon material is the best place to do it.
     
    #42 Porco Azzurro, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Also, let's not forget that we're basically trying to apply Tweets of Pablo on a subject that is only marginally related to the topic.

    Like, I think we're really reaching here.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    I have personally experienced instances where members of the Story Group have explicitly passed on providing answers to questions when answering said questions could have caused them to potentially spoil things, so I feel confident in stating that Pablo's willingness to answer questions about specific elements of the existing SW Canon and clarify certain misconceptions about things can and ought to be seen as a significant indicator of what is being done or has been done in said Canon.
     
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  5. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    Sure, and Pablo being on twitter is really useful and interesting. But you said the key word there I think: “specific”.

    So as to your example, quoting Pablo tweeting about blood transfusions shouldn’t, in my view, be then extrapolated into talking about ‘if that, then this’ about cloning, because that is not Pablo talking, that is you then interpreting something which may or may not be the case.

    Just leave a little more room for doubt and don’t connect dots that may not be there, is all I’m suggesting.

    Star Wars has a long history of tricksy re-working our perceptions of what is and what isn’t the case, or possible.

    If Pablo tweeted ‘Rey is definitely not a clone, has no clones and as a character has nothing to do with cloning’ that would be significant (though could still change!) but saying you can’t transfuse a Force sensitive’s blood to ‘give’ Force sensitivity is simply not the same thing. Though it’s still interesting and worth knowing it’s his perspective on it.
     
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  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    The concept of cloning a Force-sensitive person would rely on the same basic foundation as making a non-Force-sensitive person Force-sensitive by injecting said non-Force-sensitive person with the blood of a Force-sensitive person: increasing the number of Midichlorians in a person's body in order to increase their sensitivity to the Force and their ability to manipulate it.

    The broader meaning of Pablo's Tweets is that Force sensitivity cannot be manipulated though scientific experimentation or medical procedure, with cloning falling into both categories.

    Applying Pablo's Tweets specifically to the idea of Rey being a clone, scientists could have possibly cloned her using, say, Palpatine's DNA, but could not, under current SW Canon, have deliberately made her Force-sensitive.
     
    #46 DigificWriter, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  7. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    She could be a clone who is naturally Force sensitive.
     
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  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    If that were the case, there would be nothing to be gained narratively by making her a clone.

    The only way that "Clone Rey" theories make sense is if she were cloned specifically to be extremely powerful with the Force, but since you can't scientifically manufacture Force sensitivity in current SW Canon, the narrative purpose of having her be a clone is DOA (dead on arrival).
     
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  9. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Parts of this "master plan" theory may be true but I think the Snoke body is not Plaguis because by Star Wars legends, canon; Darth Plaguis was a Muun. A alien race shown in the PT movies. I think the images & stories of Disney era comics, novels will tie into TROS in that Rey will "time travel" into the PT era & become the new "Shimmi". To get the force baby (anakin 2), BUT due to the events of TROS 3rd act, Palpatine-Snoke-Vader (dark)(pwned)(kylo ren) etc will NOT exist.
    This "happy" :) Disney ending will close up all the stories, character arcs & lead to a new "peaceful" future. The Jedi, galaxy & light side Force prevail.

    TFM
    (boba fett)
     
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  10. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    Sure there could be. Now there are two (or more) Reys. One of them might be in that video with the red lightsaber.

    Naturally Force sensitive cloned twins, how about that? :D
     
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  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    ^ I think you're really reaching with that, but okay.

    Looking at this from the simplest narrative angle possible, it only makes sense for the character of Rey that we have been following to be a clone is if there's some benefit to her being a clone that is tied to the broader themes of the SW Saga as a whole, and based on what we've now been told by Pablo about how Force-sensitivity works, I'm having a real hard time finding a simple narrative justification for the idea.
     
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  12. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    I think JJ & Disney added the "Red Rey" bit in the new D23 trailer as either a "Force Dream" the Real Rey has OR she has a extended battle scene, 3rd act climax with "multiple" bad Rey Sith clones.
    2018's Mission Impossible film by JJ & Bad Robot had several dreams, visions, ruses, etc.
    I'm 100% sure both he, George Lucas, KK, Disney will use "dreams" Force visions, clones, fakes, etc. Do NOT watch the new ads or teasers then think all is explained or clear. lol

    TFM
    (boba fett)
     
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  13. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    Oh, I am totally reaching! Lol

    But I’m glad you’ve reached “I'm having a real hard time finding a simple narrative justification for the idea”, it’s a much more open position than “not possible”. ;)


    Oh I know. I am assuming nothing. Nothing at all. All good fun speculating though :)
     
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  14. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    ^ I still stand by the "Clone Rey" thing not happening due to Pablo's comments; trying to figure out what the narrative point of her being a clone that isn't related to her Force sensitivity (since she can't be a clone AND be Force-sensitive) would be is a separate thing.
     
  15. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Rebelscum

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    Kylo was afraid that Snoke might know his true intentions in TFA. I understood this moment as a confrontation precisely between Ben and the Supreme Leader. If the Emperor did not die completely and actually manipulated Ben, then I don’t understand why he did not tell him about the "hidden fleet".
    If Darth Sidious can be reborn in another body, then why didn't he do it in 30 years? Didn’t Snoke let him do this?
    And if Snoke is Palpatine or Plagueis, why did he take someone else's name unfamiliar to anyone?
     
  16. Unseen

    Unseen Rebel Official

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    Huh? You are making a lot of assumptions here. Or you are all over the map.

    Force sensitivity is clearly a family thing, no? As in Anakin, Luke, Leia, Ben...right?


    So how would cloning be any different than that? If you clone a force sensitive person, it stands to reason the clone is force sensitive. Since they would essentially be twins.


    And thats the theory. That she is a clone of Luke or potentially a clone of a different force sensitive.

    You get that?


    I don't even know if I like the Rey clone idea, but you are all in these posts talking down to people for no reason- your logic isn't even sound.

    And again, Disney isn't going to give Pablo Hidalgo veto power over JJ Abrams, RJ, etc.


    They only told you that so you'd buy all the comics and books. And it is apparently working, because you have built Pablo up in several posts now about how important his word is.

    It just isn't.


    If JJ says "I'd like blood transfusions to be a thing in star wars" it becomes a thing.


    And again, there is already at least one example of a movie contradicting written material- Rey and Poe meeting in TLJ. Yes its small, but it is something that easily could have been cut from TLJ to make it line up with what was written in a book.


    And lastly, is there a cannon book or whatever that explicitly says "you can't clone a force sensitive"...or is it just that Pablo tweeted something about blood transfusions?

    Because if its just the latter, you don't even know how cannon works so this entire debate is pointless.

    Even in your reality where Pablo is the keeper of the Cannon, the only thing that would make "you can't clone a force sensitive" cannon is if a story explicitly said it.


    And even if such a story existed, Disney isn't going to veto an idea from JJ because some dweeb in a funny hat cites a comic book that was published 5 years ago.




    Look, I get that you enjoy interacting with Pablo on twitter and it makes you feel like there is a master plan and you can talk directly to the Star Wars king, but that just isn't how it works.
     
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  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    It took 30+ years for somebody to find the artifact into which he'd transferred his essence.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---
    Not every member of a particular family line is going to automatically be Force-sensitive simply because other members of their family are/were.

    Force-sensitivity isn't something you can replicate or manufacture scientifically.


    Yes, they would, because that's one of the reasons that the Story Group exists.


    I'm not on Twitter, but I do occasionally pay attention to the things that he tweets - vicariously - when said things pertain directly to SW and are relevant to what is or isn't happening with the franchise's Canon because I recognize the importance of his position as a member of the Story Group and what he and his fellow SG members are tasked with doing.
     
  18. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Rebelscum

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    Well well. In this case, Sidious is still in the form of spirit. He impersonates Vader and wants Kylo to help him reborn. Rey will try to prevent this, but she will become a victim? The plot of the film may not be as predictable as it seems at first glance. We'll see.
     
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  19. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

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    This thread and others like it will be a fun read after we’ve seen the film, hah. :D
     
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  20. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    “Hundred of generations live in you now” echoes many quotes of Maz from TFA about dead people and forces taking new shape and life.

    At the same time we are entertaining the idea that Sidius can come back from the death.

    In all honestly I see far more likely than Cloned Rey, that she is a manifestation of the Force itself.
    That just because dead jedi join the Force after death and on the other hand the Force is what create life... the meaning of Luke’s words can be far more literal than they seem.

    I truly believe there’s a pattern - and a strange one - since TFA.

    But if so, it is far more mystical than scientific imo.
     
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