POLL: The Sequel Trilogy is complete--what do you think?

No sorry, they just don't cut it for me. Besides I already loved the prequels as a kid, before TCW was even being made. And please Don't get me wrong, I don't judge other people for liking the ST at all, the bottom line is I dislike how some of my favourite characters were handled and liked very few if any of the new characters. I can't help that, its how I feel.

This might be corny to some people but i don't care; Star Wars is personal to all of us, and both of Lucas' trilogies hold a lot of personal value for me and those characters have helped me through personal struggles which I'm not gonna go into here, I'm not happy with how characters like Luke, Leia & Han were treated in the ST, but I wouldn't tell others they're wrong for disagreeing. There's different parts of Star Wars for different people, but that doesn't make any of us lesser fans than others, because at the end of the day we all share a passion for this great mythical universe which has something for everyone!

 

I often wonder how A New Hope would have been received if it was the 4th film released. Obi-Wan dies in the first film pretty early on in a tame fight. He sacrifices himself so he can deliver a few lines as a ghost for the rest of the trilogy. Even now, “If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" kind of rings hollow. He doesn't train Luke. He tells him to visit Yoda. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself to tell Luke something he could have said in person.

Imagine waiting 30 years to see Kenobi again and that's what you get? I do think this narrative thread is something Lucas may have addressed in the 3rd trilogy. The lore around force ghosts wasn't touched in the ST. Anyway, each trilogy passes the torch to the a new set of characters and for some reason some people were expecting a direct sequel with our heroes from Return of the Jedi. I'm happy people are getting some of that from Mando.

 

Another hint was the design used by the imperial troops on their transport in the Chapter 14, The Tragedy. Similar to the one of the First Order seeing in the ST.

I didn't find a picture of the transport showed in The Mandalorian. But it reminded me of this one:



Ps. Found it:

 

Episode 7 & 8 I thought both turned out excellent. 9 stumbled a bit for me with wrapping up the story, but overall I still voted "Very good".

Wow. Thanks for the insight. I never thought of it that way before.

Even though I like the ST for what it is, at some level even I felt a bit robbed. In the sense that I would have loved to have seen more of what Han, Luke, and Leia were up to in the 30-year gap between RotJ and TFA and it did kinda feel like we were missing out. But as you said, perhaps Mandalorian and the other shows will eventually fill that in.

 

A massive dud overall. Force awakens was flawed but fun, The Last Jedi just couldn't hold my interest and Rise of Skywalker was a complete blur, either i'm getting too old or that movie was going at breakneck speed and didn't make a whole lot of sense. I didn't care for any of the new characters besides Finn in TFA. Personally i thought they handled most OT characters fine with the exception of Luke Skywalker for reasons i'm sure all of you are familar with by now, i don't dislike it enough want it to retconned or anything like that, but it definitely wasn't worth the wait. But was it even possible to for it live up to the expectations and hype? Most likely not.

 

The Sequel Trilogy is over and my initial knee-jerk reaction is this:
It was good but could have been more. Much, much more.

Pro: it captured the “classic” star wars look/feel quite well (though that wasn’t what I was in the mood for.)
Pro: it gave very satisfying send-offs to the “Big Three” (you may disagree, but I thought all of them had very fitting endings, even Han. You have to consider the actor’s ages and what they’re able to do and not do.)
Pro: it had a few iconic “props,” namely BB-8 and Kylo Ren’s lightsaber. These will be remembered forever.

Con: flip-flop, in-cohesive storytelling. (Rey’s lineage, the importance of bloodlines.)
Con: characters that did not grow into their potential. (Finn, Rey, DJ, Rose, etc.)
Con: poor usage of C3PO and R2D2.
Con: very weak ending (Is palpatine gone for good? There was no central government at the end...
Con: recycled soundtrack (apart from Rey’s theme, March of the Resistance, and the Ach-to theme.)
Con: very few interesting planets (Achto, Canto Byte, and Jakku were the only ones that “appealed” to me.)

The thing that irks me the most was not Rian Johnson’s decision or anything you see fans going on about on the forums. No, what irked me was that filmmakers catered to the Original Trilogy crowd (almost to the point where they were super-cautious to try anything daring,) and in the end... the Original Trilogy crowd was the most vocal in rejecting this thing.

And I’m not one of those people who thinks the Mandalorian was “better” per se, or the act of tossing Dave Filoni characters into stuff will solve the problem. No, Mandalorian had a plethora of its own issues.
The only two movies that truly made me happy so far in this post-Disney era was
Rogue One and Solo. I loved them both.

 

I answered the question in this thread last year right after Episode 9, but times always give different perspective. I'm really torn on the ST after multiple viewings through 2020. From a movie quality perspective, I actually really enjoy them (TFA still brings back fond memories as that time period was probably the most fun SW had been since the OT era). From a storytelling perspective, this is where the ST falls short for me. I have still yet to find a reason why the ST should exist when it is all said and done from a big picture story arc. I have loads of problems with the PT in terms of quality, but the movies still serve a purpose, give a good arc, and the world building deepens the galaxy. I watch the ST and it just feels like a reshash of the OT story (with new characters) and bringing back Palpatine was the final nail in the coffin in that respect.

For example, I really love TROS right up to the final act on Exegol and than I think to myself, "Wait, this is just like ROTJ??? What was the point of Anakin's sacrifice in 1983 if Palpatine is going to come back again?" That's the heart of the problem with me and the ST as I can enjoy the movies on their own, but not as 7,8,9. If that makes sense?

I'm always open to anyone who wants to challenge and tell me why they feel 1-9 works for them, why the ST should exist in that respect. I'm open to anyone challenging me that bringing back Palpatine was the right thing to do in Episode 9 and here's why it makes the PT/OT better. If I could fit that roung peg (The ST) into a square hole (The PT/OT), than I would love to fully embrace the new Trilogy. Right now I have only embraced the individual movies.

 

I answered the question in this thread last year right after Episode 9, but times always give different perspective. I'm really torn on the ST after multiple viewings through 2020. From a movie quality perspective, I actually really enjoy them (TFA still brings back fond memories as that time period was probably the most fun SW had been since the OT era). From a storytelling perspective, this is where the ST falls short for me. I have still yet to find a reason why the ST should exist when it is all said and done from a big picture story arc.

It's grave ripping- it's a "we're not done here yet" mentality. The Empire Strikes Back technically does it (very skillfully, mind you) (aside from some continuation with Vader surviving, Luke acquiring training and learning more about the Force, and the Luke/Leia/Han love relationship). The point of the ST is this (and it continues a more of- what happened next to Han and Leia, Luke). You thought that the Empire was beaten? Well, guess WHAT.

I have loads of problems with the PT in terms of quality, but the movies still serve a purpose, give a good arc, and the world building deepens the galaxy. I watch the ST and it just feels like a reshash of the OT story (with new characters) and bringing back Palpatine was the final nail in the coffin in that respect.

It is. Star Wars is loyal to its legacy to avoid fan whiplash and because nostalgia is held in such a high regard. (Perhaps people feel that such work can never be emulated again? Anyways.). The PT is still beholden to the OT as well- adhering to ROTJ's storyline with a few continuity issues, with references to ANH and TESB. Bringing back Palpatine is not understanding who the big bad is. Is the big bad the Emperor in ROTJ? I'd argue that TESB Vader or just the Empire (the councilmen, Tarkin in A New Hope) are- those who oppose the Rebel Alliance.

Weirdly enough, Palpatine is still more serious in areas in TROS, than he is in ROTJ or ROTS. He acts more like TESB Vader (technically this is who Palpatine partially is in ROTJ) with his normal self (gives a tempting offer with power, though TESB Vader does that----). He does less cackling, less inane lines about the dark side and "letting it flow within you" and saying "it's unavoidable", though the plot still backs him up. The plot is also less rushed (Can I say that?) than it is during the throne room scene in Return. Yes, I think I will state that.

The plot in ROTJ is making/forcing Luke to believe that the rebels will inevitably die- that killing Palpatine is wrong despite it being the right thing in any other situation. I think that a fleet of millions of Star Destroyers vs. some Star Destroyers and a Death Star, with some rebels still scattered on Endor (and elsewhere?) is more convincing with Rey feeling helpless and that the Rebellion will die. Palpatine also gives the appeal that Rey's only family is him- something tied to Vader, but is unique for Palpatine's character. The idea is still stupid- all the rebels will die somehow- very quickly (without their being a clear timer as in ANH)- but this time it's more rationalized. Palpatine's idea that maybe she could help the rebels, while not the most convincing argument(- Does Rey realize that she's going to turn evil if Palpatine controls her?), shows that Rey at least has some agency in TROS. In ROTJ, it was unclear a lot of the time what Luke was thinking- He initially strikes against the Emperor in order to get revenge? because he believes that his friends will all/mostly die? And it happens quickly- Luke doesn't leave the room to try to warn his friends or help them, or send a message to Leia. It's not in order to save his friends (unless it's implied). The Emperor says that he senses Luke's anger or hatred and tells him to strike him down- which technically would save his friends if the chain of command was diminished.

However, there is a moral issue raised with this, instead of Luke striking him down to save his friends- it seems to be out of the question- it's Luke becoming hateful over the handful of deaths that the Emperor's just committed. There is potentially Luke still hoping that the rebels will pull through by Vader's dialogue ("Your feelings for your friends are strong...."); however, there's Luke's doubt at play earlier. Is Luke hoping that a remnant of the rebels will survive? But knows that most of them will die? So, he keeps his composure. There's also the idea that Luke's denying any of his dead friends justice by doing nothing. The Emperor will just continue the atrocities- it's up to the rebels to do the killing in this case in order to defend themselves. The only thing that Luke can do is prevent damage without killing. Luke's not doing anything in the throne room either in ROTJ to help the rebels besides maybe helping to distract the Emperor and Vader, which is still questionable, as the Emperor still sends a command. Pardon me if I'm not blunt, but I think TROS wins here- Rey is at least considering trying to do something- Luke did nothing really for the rebels in the throne room- let's be honest here. Besides trying to kill the Emperor, which he later doesn't bring up again. (Or, makes the lightsaber toss, showing that he doesn't want to kill the Emperor.).

For example, I really love TROS right up to the final act on Exegol and than I think to myself, "Wait, this is just like ROTJ??? What was the point of Anakin's sacrifice in 1983 if Palpatine is going to come back again?"

That sacrifice was prompted by Luke's inanity- if Luke had just killed the Emperor out of saving the rebels or putting the galaxy out of its misery from the Emperor's tyranny, it would have made sense. Or, for justice, since a Jedi is a "guardian of peace and justice". Obi-Wan cuts off an arm to save Luke from bodily harm (and technically beheads an alien in a deleted frame.). Did Luke think about those workers on the Death Star before he blasted it? No, he had to save the Rebellion.

The point of Vader's sacrifice was to make sure that Luke was safe from being electrocuted. That's it, technically. Yes, the writers (Kasdan) mentioned that Vader had a change of heart and was like "should have done that years ago" to the Emperor. So, Vader recognizes the Emperor as a villain and saves Luke out of compassion by killing the Emperor. IT WASN'T TO SAVE THE REBELS. HE DID NOT DO IT FOR THE REBELLION OR THE GALAXY FOR THAT MATTER. This is almost not addressed, besides Luke's "come with me". Even so, I can't say there' much evidence for it; the point is to save Luke and that Vader's disillusioned with the Emperor. Vader is no longer the Emperor's puppet.

That's the heart of the problem with me and the ST as I can enjoy the movies on their own, but not as 7,8,9. If that makes sense?

Would it be odd if I said no? Did Anakin ever make a sacrifice (for whom- Luke?, Everyone?, what)? Technically, he did succeed- he saved Luke's life. The Emperor never directly threatens Luke's life again. Luke is only put in danger in TLJ from things that he's partially responsible for (Kylo Ren) and for choices that he makes. Yes, the Empire's still around as a result of Palpatine's contingency plan as the First Order- but he's not in control of it at the moment or is distantly.

I'm always open to anyone who wants to challenge and tell me why they feel 1-9 works for them, why the ST should exist in that respect. I'm open to anyone challenging me that bringing back Palpatine was the right thing to do in Episode 9

Since Lucasfilm was basically gridlocked with having Palpatine as the big bad in the PT and OT, it would have felt out of place for them to anyone else to function as the big bad for the ST. They tried neo-Darth/dark Han for the ST momentarily as the big bad (which was cool and fun when it lasted in the script), but there may have been plans to at least have some all-controlling entity behind-it-all- some embodiment of the dark side, which is technically part of what the Emperor was in ROTJ. They can't stick the idea of the dark side properly unto a character- TESB Vader, as well as ANH Vader, and Tarkin, and those council member in A New Hope could have fit the bill. They're serious characters (just a bit cliched and theatrical), but act like regular human beings, instead of spewing out lines.

And no, Plagueis doesn't fit the bill. You can't say- oh, there's this all-controlling thing behind Palpatine. Or, Plagueis was responsible for everything. At some point, these villains will have to take accountability for their actions. How much are they going to be manipulated? How much of it is going to be their own choice to do evil?

and here's why it makes the PT/OT better. If I could fit that roung peg (The ST) into a square hole (The PT/OT), than I would love to fully embrace the new Trilogy. Right now I have only embraced the individual movies.

I'm ok with that. One has to break these films down and find their good parts. There's a lot of issues in them.

 

For me I personally think Disney could of completely ruined the whole franchise which I believe was quite a big concern of many of us. The fact is it is a pretty damn good trilogy, whether it meets the expectations of some people is a different matter but I think it could of been 10x worse so I voted “good”. I would love to hear someone else’s thoughts and opinions!!

 

As a whole i could take it or leave. I in no way hate it. There are a ton of problems with it and yet i watched it and dont hate it. Kylo is a big cry baby which takes away from it.

 

I think the ST is a mixed bag. TFA is a rehash but I still like it. TLJ is new and I love it. I know controversial. TROS isn’t my favorite. It’s my least favorite Star Wars movie, but still a good movie. I am glad I can still say I liked all Star Wars movies

 

For me, I think it was a 'wasted opportunity'. It should really have been the passing of the torch to the next generation, but instead it just comes across as Disney killing off the Skywalkers so they can start over using Lucas's ideas but not the legacy family.

I liked TFA although it ripped off too much of ANH. I loved TLJ.
I hated TROS.

I would have rather liked it if we had had a 'First Order' that wasn't entirely bad, and a 'Resistance' that wasn't entirely good. Even better....reverse the situation, have the New Republic being tthreatened by insurgents, but once again, not as 'black and white' as the OT. More than ever I wanted a new version of Force users - neither Jedi or Sith, but a 'balance'.
I think Rian Johnson might have been going that way - or tried to - but Disney nixed it; he did say that '95%' was on screen but not all of it.
What really saddens me isn't just Ben Solo's fate but also how Rey ultimately became too good to be true. Someone on tumblr pointed out that she was 'all the OT' wrapped into one.
A 'great pilot' - like Han, she's also shown in his seat in the Falcon.
A 'powerful' Force user - like Luke.
A 'leader' ( and a princess) - like Leia.
A 'great mechanic' - like Chewie.

In short, they didn't need any of the other characters, because Rey could do EVERTHING.

 

I liked the movies individually, but as a trilogy it was just all over the place. By the end of TLJ I really didn't care who reys parents were. Cool, she's a nobody, great. When I was a kid I thought anyone could be a Jedi. All those rebels belived in the force, and Luke wasn't suspicious when obi wan and yoda wanted to train him. But then Rey becomes a Palpatine and squashes my dreams of ever becoming a jedi. I wonder who broom boy's parents are, since you now have to be related to someone to be a force user. It doesn't make sense that jedi aren't allowed families, when they could just breed an army of jedi.

I was hoping TROS would follow that trajectory, especially regarding kylo and his aspirations, but he got totally upstaged by Palpatine. Having said that I think TROS is the best, oddly enough.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2021 ---

I don't think rey was a "great" pilot. She had some difficulty flying the falcon at first. She wasn't really a leader, she was kind of a loner who doubted herself at times. She was a good mechanic, because she spent her life taking parts off ships and selling them. So she'd have to know what the parts do and how they work or if they're in working condition.

She wasn't little miss perfect like everyone thinks.

 

No, not at first - although being able to do a Jedi mind trick without training was a bit much - but TROS completely changed that. 'She who could do no wrong'....

Regarding the trilogy being all over the place, they had different writers and directors, with different visions. Spolied the broth, methinks.

 

She did like a Vulcan mind meld with Kylo during the interrogation, and learned the trick. It's not very difficult, but she did fail twice. Granted her hands were shacked so she couldn't do the hand thingy.

 

And how I wish they'd made that clear in the films.

 

Thats why there are forums.

 

I remember Elijah Wood mentioning it on twitter!

 

Well you should know better. After I dunno 5 years i still have to explain the fundamentals of Star Wars. I don't even really like the ST but I find myself defending it because of outright ignorance.