Poll: Who do you think is telling the truth about TFA story authorship, JJ or Lucas?

Despite what Lucas said, I think this will still be a family drama. I just think they changed who the children were, their ages, and gave them a new plot where they interact with the original cast in a more direct way. The plan could still be to get where Lucas's ideas were going through a different route. It may just be a case of Lucas not recognizing the characters because he isn't following the story they are telling, hence his question to Abrams: "What happened to Vader's grandchildren?"
It seems pretty clear to me that we will find out what happened to the grandchildren, but they are trying to keep it a secret rather than GL revealing who they are from the beginning.
Lucas's story could have followed the downfall of "Kylo" and Abrams and Kasdan decided to have that as backstory as well as who Rey really is.
Lucas's comments really make me think he hasn't seen the trailers since the first teaser. Which means he could be speaking from ignorance about what they abandoned.

 

I'm sorry to say but all the late interviews George Lucas gave in the past 38 years reveal a considerable amount of contradictions and to even have a renowned character say "from a certain point of view" always conveyed to me the impression that you take statements from Mr. Lucas better with a healthy dose of salt.

Remember that he had always wanted Greedo to shoot first? In 2002 Gary Kurtz answered a question from the convention public with a counter-question: "What kind of VFX would George have needed in 1976 to make Greedo shoot first which wasn't already available and at his disposal back in 1976?"

Simply put: George did cry too many times "wolf", but of course I can't rule out the possibility that his 'weakness' is now being abused. Difficult to see this is.

 

Years ago G.L. stated that Han Solo had to live because he needed him if ST was made.
So it might be G.L.'s storrie after all.

 

So... this is a mess, I think.

Lucas has a tendency to just make stuff up in interviews, I'm sure we're all at least somewhat familiar with that trait of his. So everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

But Abrams also has a bit of a track record of stretching the truth. Not quite outright lying like Lucas, but subtly shifting things around with how he very deliberately phrases his comments.

Luckily, we have one person involved in this who is a known quantity and doesn't alter reality for the purpose of making a point: Kathleen Kennedy. And according to her, the broad strokes of the story are the same, albeit with aged-up characters. There are some changes here and there, but the overall plot is pretty much Lucas' creation.

 

With all his contradictory statements and the way the PT turned out I lost all trust in G. Lucas. His latest comments show (imo) a somewhat petty attitude similar to the "other" George (RR Martin) who began to call out any fans who were criticizing his slow progress on his novels

 

I'm starting to believe they used some things just not his treatments from a certain point of view.

1. Lucas passed the torch. The ST is is about passing the torch and passing on what you have learned.

2. GL asked JJ about Anakin/Vader's grandchildren. I'm certain Rey and Kylo are.

3. JJ and company have used past concept art.

I'm sure there is more but we will never know. I love George and all but it's like him saying that they didn't use some of his ideas was just to get attention off of him,but keeps it on him.

As for who is telling the truth? Both

 

I don't think Lucas lies he does several things that make him hard to pin down;

1- I think he changes his mind. There is an interview with Kasdan where George explained to him that the Force is available to everyone but only some cultivate it. Kasdan did not like the idea and thought things should have more destiny to it. . . . 15 years later Lucas started work on the PT which made it more about genetics and space elves that live in your cells.

2- He is constantly in revision. There are so many versions to the stories that its easy to contradict when you speak of them in everyday language. When there 5-6 drafts of the story that have a variety of differences its easy to say "originally this was supposed to be like this" but he is trying to remember details that were constantly influx.

3- He is a "both/and" thinker not an "either/or" thinker there are layers to things he presents and he talks about them in single layers which for most people who think in "either/or" terms they make the assumption that one option is true rather than both or several things are true at the same time.

 

Its strange that Lucas has come out (during the hype for TFA) and start doing interviews when he has been pretty cordial for the past year.

He was in a tough spot so most of his answers about the trailers, etc have been 'I want to enjoy it as a fan...'

Then all of the sudden this week he starts talking about his divorce from Disney when we are 30 days away?

Honestly I think Lucas is surprised at the reactions from the fans because this really could break records and he maybe a bit jealous he's not reaping any adulation.

It's a shame cause its his creation but alot of fans have moved on from Lucas (including myself) and are ready to see what someone else can do with the universe. I don't think Lucas has come to terms with that.

 

I believe Lucasfilm/Disney may have wanted to use Lucas' ideas, but were set on pseudo-remaking the franchise by bringing back the stormtroopers, a THIRD Death Star and Darth Vader imagery..

"We want to make something for the fans."

Lets face it folks. We're getting A New Hope 2.0

The sheer act of making Return of the Jedi's ending VOID and forcing all this stuff back into this story is probably what Lucas disagreed with. He probably wanted to move on from the stormtroopers, X-Wings, Tie fighters and so on.. but Disney think that Star Wars fans are so DUMB that we all just want to see the same thing again (lets face it, 95% of the audience will be idiots who only care about lightsabers and X-Wings)

"Its not about spaceships."

"You can't experiment. You have to do it a certain way."

To me it seems pretty clear whats happening here.. this plot is disingenuous to Lucas' vision, and the only way it still "in the spirit of what he did" is through the imagery which it BLATANTLY re-uses.

..and if you can't see that then i'll see you in hell! *departs on Tauntaun*

 

I'll disagree with you slightly. George not only has contradicted himself in the past, but he has denied that he ever said certain things. For instance, the idea that there would ever be Eps 7-9 was, in his words, a "media creation" and that there were never plans to make those movies. That's not revision, that's just dishonest. But as a general rule I think you're right. The story had changed over the years and so his thinking changed along with it.

But I agree with the many people who have said that I don't think anybody's "lying" here. This is a personal thing for everyone involved and a lot of history and emotions are connected with it. It's the kind of situation that is ideal for "certain points of view" to be utter realities for each individual. We've all been in situations like that. But at the same time, at the end of the day I don't think they're actually contradicting each other.

 

Yes we are, I'm not bothered about the rating.

 

These two statements aren't mutually exclusive. You can have two different stories that share the same spirit, which is what Abrams is saying. He never said they used Lucas's treatment. In fact, he said that Disney dumped it before he was even hired. His full quote:

“Before I showed up, it [Lucas's treatment] was already something that Disney had decided they wanted to go a different way with, but the spirit of what he wrote, both in those pages and prior, is everything that this movie is built upon.”

 

People forgot the interview with Leslie Stahl promoting ROTS on 60 Minutes in 2005 and was asked about the ST:

(Laughs)"There was never a Sequel Trilogy as it was created by the media. It's the Tragedy of Darth Vader and its meant to be watched 1-6"

That's why I found so odd that Lucas sounds so bitter they aren't using his supposed ST ideas when he denounced it 10 years ago.

 

At various times Lucas said of the ST:

They were never part of the plan.
They were something he ditched before any of the movies were actually made.
They were a complete media creation.
That he had outlines for 6 movies after RotJ.
They were about Luke Fighting the Emperor after he defeated Vader.
They were about Vader's grandchildren.

I'm not sure even he knows what's true anymore.

 

Well whatever his reasons are, Lucas should have been much more careful when he created the prequel trilogy. To him, it was just his "gonzo world", to the gazillions of fans since 1977 it became a religion.

He should have started by noting down anything in the OT that refers to the backstory, and then used that to create the new trilogy. Lines like, "Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars.." -

I mean, when you've wondered about that line for twenty years, you're bound to be disappointed when you simply never see Obi-Wan Kenobi serve Bail Organa in any capacity during the Clone Wars.

When Leia says she remembers her real mother, you're bound to think WTF when said mother dies (because she feels like it, even) twenty seconds after Leia is born.

This should have been the first priority - keep those classic lines true. Obi-Wan was the apprentice of Yoda, not by proxy Yoda.

When Vader says, "Last we met, I was but the learner and you were the master.." - well, Lucas kind of weaved this into the tale but when you see Anakin go crazy there is no real difference between the two characters in terms of skill or power. We never really saw Obi-Wan being Anakin's mentor / master at all!

(Unless you count the two seconds where Obi-Wan tells Anakin that his lightsaber "is his life", completely contradicting Yoda's wisdom in ESB. Speaking of Yoda, how about keeping him off screen as an elusive master hiding somewhere to be one with the Force? Instead of making him a dumb gimmick?!ARF!.

 

The two statements don't contradict.

 

Lucas has nothing to hide. He's an adult. He wouldn't mess up his "baby" just to prove a point.

 

Does anyone think its possible all this Lucas stuff is just additional marketing by Disney to separate these films from the Prequels? Lucas isn't blind to the criticism of his films and all that came with it. I don't think its a stretch that Kennedy and company could go to Lucas and ask him to do these interviews and separate himself from these movies. They seem so eager to forget the prequels ever happened, what better way to do that then have the creator of them go public about how much he is not involved in these films?

I think ultimately, they used parts of his overall story and changed up the screen play Arndt wrote but not changing the overall beats of it. I think that Lucas was asked to do these interviews and is separating himself from this film at the request of Kennedy. I think Lucas recognizes he isn't as well regarded in the Star Wars community by the large majority of people and he swallowed his pride and did this. After the film comes out with positive reaction and we get closer to the blu-ray/digital release I think stories will shift as Lucas then starts talking about how he wasn't aware how much they used and is grateful they followed parts of his story and that its a great film. Maybe I'm way off though.