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Poll: Who do you think is telling the truth about TFA story authorship, JJ or Lucas?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Hopsa Vialb, Nov 21, 2015.

?

Who do you think is telling the truth about the TFA story.

  1. Lucas is telling the truth that they scrapped his story and made up their own.

    34 vote(s)
    42.5%

  2. JJ is telling the truth that the story is by George Lucas.

    21 vote(s)
    26.3%

  3. JJ is just referring to the OT when he says Lucas wrote the ST.

    28 vote(s)
    35.0%

  4. JJ was telling the truth when he said he and Kasdan made up their own story.

    32 vote(s)
    40.0%

  5. No story existed. Lucasfilm and Bob Iger lied about detailed treatments being completed before sale.

    3 vote(s)
    3.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Page 6 of 7
  1. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    If Lucas ever wanted to have control on this, he would have never said "I'm retiring.". Lucas wants it all and that's not possible. He said "the rules of breaking with someone" in the last interview. Sorry George you didn't break up, you sold Lucasfilm, it has nothing to do.

    Kathleen Kennedy said "we've done some departures". This "departures" happened during the making of Empire and Jedi too, and they became GREAT films. The difference now and then? Lucas was so busy building his companies at that period that he didn't impose to the other creative minds as much as he did in the PT.
     
    #101 perrymoon, Nov 23, 2015
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think people should gear themselves up to this film being a reboot rather than a story continuation. It may have the originals in and reference Darth Vader but I have a feeling they have started a new story so they can make trilogy after trilogy. New heroes, new villains, new droids.
     
    #102 master_shaitan, Nov 23, 2015
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  3. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    Who said that?

    Dunno since when Lucas is again a symbol for new stories but ok, whatever suits your argument..
     
    #103 Rieekan, Nov 23, 2015
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    When the ST was first discussed it was up in the air whether the originals would return. In particular HF. I have a feeling that the story they created was with new heroes and villains - the originals are just there is pass on the torch. I am now of the mind that the heroes and villains are unrelated to the originals.

    Lucas also said they ditched his story which would have been continuing the family soap opera and he also joked with JJ about Vader's grandkids - to me suggesting they were in his story but not JJ's/Disney's....
     
    #104 master_shaitan, Nov 23, 2015
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  5. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    No it wasn't they were set to return even before the Disney deal.
    Well. KK said it is about family, right? How would Lucas know if what they do since he is not involved? Arndt got his lines to work with and he did and got a writing credit.
    JJ said in that grandkids vid, "you made this blast up", right? Since this interview it got very en vogue for some people to victimize Lucas, but actually they talked never negative about him. On the other hand we know that he can't really stand criticism, Kurtz got fired by him over the debate if Star Wars is about characters or spectacle, and in my opinion Lucas was all about spectacle, it is kinda ironic to hear this last interview from him.
     
    #105 Rieekan, Nov 23, 2015
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  6. Assy McGee

    Assy McGee Rebel Official

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    George changing direction for the story? But that would imply he makes it up as he goes! Shocking news.

    This isn't news to me, but maybe it will give his die hard defenders something to chew on and perhaps eliminate that tunnel vision.
    Additionally, I submit that if this new film is a success, it will highlight the flaws of the PT even more.
     
    #106 Assy McGee, Nov 23, 2015
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  7. Hopsa Vialb

    Hopsa Vialb Clone

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    Lucas defenders saying he never changed his mind or made any of the story up as he goes is literally not a thing.
     
    #107 Hopsa Vialb, Nov 23, 2015
  8. BamBoosle-8

    BamBoosle-8 Force Sensitive

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    They can still be in the movie (like KK said Saga is about the SKywalker family) but not the way George Lucas wanted.
     
    #108 BamBoosle-8, Nov 23, 2015
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  9. Assy McGee

    Assy McGee Rebel Official

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    I've seen it all over the inter webs. PT apologists appeal to authority all the time, as if it was always George's plan.
    The whole fulfilling the prophecy nonsense being a classic example. He reinterpreted all that on the fly and now it's being treated like it was there from the start.
    Then there's the whole anakin force ghost thing. Someone tried to defend that recently, as if it was always part of the plan. In reality it's just more retconning that makes zero sense.
     
    #109 Assy McGee, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
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  10. Hopsa Vialb

    Hopsa Vialb Clone

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    I'm one of those people. People just twist my words and use strawman arguments every single time I point out that he had any plan at all. If I don't interpret Lucas' words as lies, people think I am apologizing or making things up. The fact is, we know the story evolved, that is indisputable. We can see the scripts too. We also know the scripts are not representative of every idea he ever had. Assuming someone is lying without proof is foolhardy. We know Lucas didn't write everything down, such as "I am your father" was never in any shooting script. Ideas are ideas. Scripts represent a limited portion of all of a person's ideas.
     
    #110 Hopsa Vialb, Nov 23, 2015
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  11. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Huh?...In one of the original documentaries (IIRC it's From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Galaxy) he crystal clearly stated that at first he hadn't planned on Vader being Luke's father (I have a copy of this screenplay) but he decided rather late during production that this was the best way to have ESB finish.

    Yes, it was the best way and a premise change, sufficiently explaining that some things didn't match up to Ben Kenobi's history lesson in ANH.
    To claim that Lucas had always intended for Kenobi to be a liar just makes me go LOL.
     
    #111 Lt. Hija, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
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  12. Assy McGee

    Assy McGee Rebel Official

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    Of course stories evolve and that would happen in a lot of movies. I've no problem with it. Ideas that made sense once don't necessarily make sense with hindsight and during the production of a sequel or what have you. I take exception to George Lucas implying that he always had a story in place from the day nought when the evidence suggests that at best he had multiple ideas and concepts, with nothing solid. He's coming off as being bitter that his story isn't being told, when I personally don't thing he ever really has a story. He's misrepresenting the facts.
     
    #112 Assy McGee, Nov 23, 2015
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  13. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    So what else can we do with this, we know he handed over his pages and Arndt worked with them over a year, there was no script after that but he got his writing credit. So where is the point, where we can tell they ditched his ideas, when even KK said it is about family? And who said that all his ideas must be great ones too? I mean he is not safe from a misfire, and maybe it is the right direction to not start with kids again.Just a minor change in preproduction isn't "ditching his ideas".
     
    #113 Rieekan, Nov 23, 2015
  14. Dr. Van

    Dr. Van Rebel General

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    In all honesty after the mess of a story that was the PT I hope they pitched the majority of GL's ideas.
     
    #114 Dr. Van, Nov 23, 2015
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  15. BamBoosle-8

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    I got only one question: Does it matter? Will this knowledge about who tells the truth or not, will this affect the way you enjoy the movie?
    For me: No. I just want to enjoy the movie.
     
    #115 BamBoosle-8, Nov 23, 2015
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  16. Hopsa Vialb

    Hopsa Vialb Clone

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    No, it won't effect my opinion of the movie. The decisions that JJ, Kasdan, Disney and Lucasfilm make will determine what is on screen in the movie, and that movie is what I will base my opinion on.

    I fully support anyone who loves this movie more than Lucas' work. It just doesn't look like a very good follow up to the saga, regardless of who wrote it. I will see it eventually, but I don't want to spend my hard earned cash on something that doesn't look that great. However, if you are excited, I do not mean to burst your bubble. Just my opinion.
     
    #116 Hopsa Vialb, Nov 23, 2015
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  17. Assy McGee

    Assy McGee Rebel Official

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    If he truly had a story in place from very early on in the creation of the saga, I think it's important that it's told. But I don't think he has and anything that he presented to Disney, was of the same caliber as the PT. He has shown through the PT, Indy 4 and Red Tails that his ability as a creator has been compromised.

    Edit- if he was such a genius story teller, why didn't they go with his ideas? There can be only one answer.
     
    #117 Assy McGee, Nov 23, 2015
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  18. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    But based on what, we have not to many infos but you are already on the conclusion that it will be inferior to Lucas ideas.
     
    #118 Rieekan, Nov 23, 2015
  19. Hopsa Vialb

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    I assume they used some of Arndt's ideas. Arndt isn't Lucas.

    Because according to JJ, Arndt was working after JJ came on board, and Disney ditched Lucas' ideas before JJ came on board. I believe him.
    Sequence:
    1)Disney ditches Lucas treatments
    2)JJ Abrams is hired
    3)JJ works with Arndt and Kasdan on new story
    4)Arndt leaves, and JJ works with Kasdan on new story/script

    I'm sure people would disagree on whether they would be great ideas, just like people will disagree on whether TFA will be full of great ideas. Maybe it will make OT-only/JJ fans happier knowing that his ideas were discarded.

    I guess I should start another poll "Do you think Lucas is lying about the grandkids being in their 20s" because I have no reason to disbelieve him. Nobody ever said the grandkids were teens in his version, just that there were teens. There was a rumor Chloe Moretz was going to be in it. Maybe she was an Ahsoka like Padawan of one of the grandkids. We don't know.
     
    #119 Hopsa Vialb, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  20. TheLukeofBabes

    TheLukeofBabes Rebel Trooper

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    everything is a misdirection just to confuse us.
    I officially have concluded to no opinion on anything until this movie comes out.
     
    #120 TheLukeofBabes, Nov 23, 2015
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