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Predicting Rogue One's negative criticism

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Ammianus Marcellinus, Aug 8, 2016.

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Which negative criticism is Rogue One most likely to receive?

  1. Political Correctness (PC): i.e. in a year of elections everything that is slightly left or liberal

  2. Sexist critique: "mary sue", forced feminism, any critique centred on the gender of the female lead

  3. Racial critique: "white people are bad guys", "this or that actor is an affront to his ethnicity"

  4. Genre critique: "this Star Wars is exactly the same as episode ../ or this particular war movie"

  5. Feeling: "I liked some parts of it, but it just doesn't feel like Star Wars"

  6. Comparison: "I'd rather watch/ I liked this movie better"

  7. Line delivery and acting performance: "this line wasn't very good" - the critic says

  8. Plot staples: "the story doesn't make sense"/ "the plot is convoluted"

  9. Cinematography: "I don't like shaky cams"

  10. Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    After the incidental nit-picking of The Force Awakens, help us predict the negative criticism Rogue One is likely to receive from at least a part of its audience. As you can see, much of the likely criticism is in fact staple.
     
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  2. Seb

    Seb Rebel Trooper

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    I don't think there will be many similarities with any previous SW movie, at least not to the degree of TFA. The criticism will probably be for the racist/feminist "agenda", although that will come from the internet and not professional reviewers who are too scared to mention that. Those may say that it doesn't feel like SW if that's the case.
     
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  3. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    While I see RO being very different from TFA, one of the things not listed that I think will recieve criticism (from me as well) is the fact that Disney is just adding unnecessary things in the movie just for eye candy. What's that point of adding awesome new ships, tanks and elite soldiers in a prequel movie just for the fun of it when all of this will be nonexistent in the other films? This movie comes right before ANH so why on earth would they make advanced Tie's and Stormtroopers? This would have been pretty good in TFA and it would have made alot of sense but in a OT prequel?

    The other factor that I hope will not become an issue but it indeed has me a little worried is the lack of familiar aliens plus the fact that the new SW movies seem to be a huge human fest. Sure I know there are some aliens in the team now but Disney seems to just want to toss out every single alien that Lucas created just so that they can give us theirs and that really sucks as it was many of these creatures that made both the OT and the PT look like the same galaxy far far away contrary to the new Disney movies that so far seem to be on a whole different universe.
     
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  4. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Yes, that is also a form of criticism we should expect.

    Well, they are tying to expand the universe. As a historian, I have studied Late Antiquity over and over again for almost 15 years now, but I can discover completely new things about the period on almost a daily basis. Star Wars is a tremendously big universe, but in the latter's case the succes of the new aliens, vehicles and troopers all depends on how succesfully they frame these into the meta-narrative of the Star Wars canon.

    For instance: the Deathtrooper. One might ask: "why do we never see the Deathtrooper in all the other movies?". You can provide a number of answers:
    a. the unit was wiped out during the events of Rogue One
    b. the unit was disbanded after Rogue One (apperently they're part of Krennic's personal possé)
    c. the unit is only used in assymetrical warfare. No wonder we don't see them in the pitched battles of the originals.
    d. the unit was involved in the battles and events of the originals, even though they don't have an explicit presence on screen.

    Just and example. Another one: Aliens. "Why are there so many different aliens we have never seen before in TFA".
    -. The events of TFA take place on the Inner Rim and on the border of unknown space and First Order territory. It is thus a different part of the galaxy than that which we have seen in the originals. No wonder there are other species involved in the resistance, because it almost exclusively operates in First Order space.

    Or the AT-ACT from Rogue One. Why don't we see this version in the original trilogy?
    a. Scarif is the only massive scale orbital and planetary construction site we see in the original trilogy.
    b. The AT-ACT Walkers were phased out somewhere before the events of The Empire Strikes Back

    You see what I mean. It all depends on what sort of story or context you formulate to fit in these new vehicles, species and characters in the general timeline. Unfortunately, it is not always done properly.....
     
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  5. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    Wow... this post is outstanding. We should make this into a poster.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 9, 2016 ---
    I voted 'other'. I may change it in the near future but my opinion was different from a news media response to a public response.

    I think it'll be heavily compared to TFA.
     
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  6. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    It's true that they can always come up with interesting ways to try to explain those things my friend yet still, and this is just my personal view of things, I sometimes feel that those sort of explanations are in some occasions ok and on others they are a slap in the face and an insult to our intelligence as fans. I mean, sure, I can dig the Deathtroopers being a solo squad and whatnot that was a personal guard of someone and they got wiped out, but are we to believe that happened to all the ships and tech as well? Also, we are not talking about just one trooper type but already we have seen three!
    ! both.jpg

    !Screen-Shot-2016-07-15-at-17.40.32-830x518.png

    Then we have the ships:
    !Rogue-One-A-Star-Wars-Story-TIE-striker.jpg

    ! u-wing-rogue-one.jpg

    Storywise, both ships make no sense as to why they aren't seen anymore as both craft are better than some of the older ships we have seen before. The Tie Striker is much better than the Tie Fighter as it has better weapons and speed. The craft is said to be used to guard important Imperial bases so we are just going to be led to believe that after the Death Star was finished they just shipped all of them elsewhere? What Imperial base could be more important? ANH shows us that Vader's mission of finding the Death Star plans is the most important mission the Empire has at that moment so we have to swallow that the Empire was so dumb that they left their greatest creation to be guarded by crappy old Tie Fighters and they gave their land troopers big lizards for a mission of the highest priority but they used tanks to try to take down a handful of dudes?

    What about the U-Wing? In ANH we can see that the Rebels are desperate with their destruction by the Death Star just being minutes away. They use all they have which are just a handful of ships to try to fight the most important battle of their lives but they decided to leave the U-Wings in the garage? Shouldn't they have attacked with everything they had at the moment?

    Even if both craft were absent from the confrontation in ANH, shouldn't they at least have been present in the second Death Star battle in ROTJ where it was the decisive win or loose battle of all time?

    I know many people will disagree and argue with me but it just bothers me that many fans today just don't give a fig about many story elements as long as they get a new SW movie. Disney can just throw away everything we have always known and make a movie between TESB and ROTJ where they show us that Leia was a Fembot all along and many fans don't even care as long as they get a new movie and this is really depressing.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.JPG

    While I love the prequels just as much as I love the OT, there were some things that really bothered me about them and it was for the very same reasons storywise. The Republic had awesome troopers with different rankings and weaponry and they just ditched everything for regular Stormtrooper that were all the same? Who did you call when you had to talk to your commander? Whoever is the commander answer me? That bugged me alot but there were various years between ROTS and ANH so many things can have happened to explain this and that but RO is just what? A few weeks or a few months before ANH? They got rid of every single Tie Striker in that short amount of time? That's hard to swallow and I fear that Disney just doesn't care about these things as it just wants to give fans nostalgia feed and eye candy and it pains me to see mostly everybody just swallowing it with a smile just because it has a SW logo slapped on it.

    With this I'm not saying that I think RO will be a junk or whatnot as I still have high hopes that the movie is awesome but I do think that the SW story should go on is we know it and we don't need eye candy to make SW better as it already is excelent as it is.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    The Tie Striker is a craft designed for air/in-atmosphere combat, the shore trooper is a reconnaissance variant who specializes in marine/water conditions. There was no need for both of these two in the originals simply because they did not have a narrative function. But they do have that function in Rogue One. The same with the U-wing. The U-Wing is a troop transport meant to drop off troops in the heat of combat. No sensible general would send ships specialized for troop transportation into space battles like those of the first and second Death Star. We haven't seen Rebel troops in landing operations before, so it makes perfect sense we would only see such ships in their proper context, as in Rogue One. As for the Hoovertank trooper: there are no hoovertanks in the originals, but there is a need for one, from a narrative point of view, in Rogue One. So they had to make troops to man the hoovertransport/tank to make the scene work. I think that designing such stuff just to be cool or to add stuff only comes second place for these filmmakers. They want all this new stuff to make sense in the narrative and universe they created. They are functional to the story, and of course have the added benefit of improving the aesthetics of the movie. Even in ROTJ there suddenly was a "scout trooper". This particular trooper was new to the movies (they did not use him in A New Hope, even though the troopers were scouting and patrolling on Tatooine), but not new to the universe. The presumption presented by the world of ROTJ was that they had been there all along.

    Movies like Star Wars are built on the notion that its universe constitutes a larger world that is not only visible in the enclosed space of the movies. The Clone Trooper and Republic army vehicles in ROTS had the opposite function. Those were designed mainly for the purpose of aesthetics. For instance, why was the 501st in the Jedi Temple attack dressed in armour with blue markings? Because, the blue matched the colour and tone of the evening shots. Why did Obi Wan's soldiers have yellow markings? Again because it matched the colour scheme of Utapua? And the same with Felucia and Kashyyyk. As for Mygeeto: the troopers were dressed in purple simply because that would make them stand out with the grey colour scheme. If they would have been white, the pan shots of the bridge wouldn't work, because everything would have been whitish gray in the colour scheme.

    :)

    As for Darth Vader and the Deathstar. The Tie-fighters were of the newest and most advanced design (as compared to the standard design used in Rebels). The stormtroopers send to tatooine were part of an elite tracking party who knew that in the heat of tatooine the walkers would need a constant provision of new fuel and power cells. Further, Vader did not want to upset the local powerbrokers (The Hutt) by deploying massive force to retrieve some missing plans of which the empire would better off if no one really knew they'd ever lost them in the first place. Spin...spin....spin.....spinning right round.
     
    #7 Ammianus Marcellinus, Aug 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2016
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    No use of the force during the movie may raise negative criticism but I'm not bothered by that if it happens.
     
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  9. Laggamaroo

    Laggamaroo Rebel Official

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    I'm betting Vader will use the Force in the movie.
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    That's a good bet, I'm sure Admiral Motti wasn't the first one to be force choked & certainly not the last, the comments online have been mentioning words like ''awesome'', ''the force is back'' involving the build up to this movie,
     
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  11. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I actually forgot this one: "In the trailers this person was so awesome/ this actor is so important and is underused." criticism.
     
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  12. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Was the second comment for Jyn?
     
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  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I suspect that a good deal of the movie's criticism will be about Felicity Jones' character. If she is portrayed as a complex character, perhaps there will be no accusations of her being a Mary Sue. Perhaps. I'm not really certain.
     
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  14. Laggamaroo

    Laggamaroo Rebel Official

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    I'm hoping the teaser tomorrow gives us some more lines from her, as well as the other characters.

    I'm dangerously close to being critical of her acting in these films. Not saying she can't act, but that maybe these aren't the types of films for her. Like Natalie Portman, who I often forget was even in three SW films.
     
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  15. Ralok-one

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    The one I predict to hear a lot is people criticizing it for being a prequel, ignoring all the merits the film has and just saying "prequel, prequel, prequel" in such a way as if to imply that ANY movie that comes before another in a series is doomed to fail.
     
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  16. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    My friend think of how differently the battle of Hoth would have been had the Rebels had U-Wings there. Many lives would have been saved as the people would have been able to deploy rapidly instead of just having to try to run on foot from AT-AT fire. The Shore Trooper could have been seen as something more than just eye candy if we hadn't seen this:
    star-wars-rogue-one-stormtrooper-beach-water.jpg
    What's the point of having a trooper that is a reconnaissance variant who specializes in marine/water conditions when the regular old dudes are seen doing what they are supposed to be doing? The Tie Striker while it's main purpose was indeed for air/in-atmosphere combat, it functions perfectly well in space so there is no excuse for a ship better than the Tie Fighter to have not been present in the Death Star battles.
    2016-08-09 22_37_15-Capture.png

    Apart from that, SW canon has shown us how the regular old Tie Fighter works perfectly well as a air/in-atmosphere combat craft:
    Breaking_Ranks_13.png

    STAR-WARS-REBELS-Sabine-and-TIE-Fighters.jpg
    As you can see, this makes these new things just cool looking eye candy and nothing more. Now don't get me wrong, I love seeing new things in SW movies and it's always cool to see new aliens, ships, trooper types and what not. My beef is not with us getting to see new things but that Disney at least bothers to do it's homework when they are going to mess with continuity. The house of mouse has been quite lazy with this and it bothers me when they just add things for us to drool but storywise they make no sense.

    Take BB-8 for example.
    BB8-Fathead.png
    I loved the little Droid as he was quite cool and lovable but when you look at him storywise you have to ask yourself, what good is a BB unit for when so far he seems to be worst than a regular old R2 unit. 30 years after ROTJ where technology has advanced to a greater degree and we get a new model of astromech droid and he's no better than an R5? Then to add insult to injury, we all see an awesome star mad that BB-8 can project and this at least gives the little ball some useful function that no R2 unit has done before when suddenly:
    the map key force awakens.jpg
    BAM! R2, who has been shut down and non-functional for YEARS can do everything that BB-8 can do turning the little cool droid into eye candy and nothing more! That I love BB-8? Sure do! That I think he's adorable? You bet! But that he seems quite useless and good for nothing eye candy compared to old astromech droids? Sadly yes.
     
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  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    At the end of the day it's all about cinematography...however with this thread I'd say that it will always boil down to sexism and racism..
     
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  18. Supreme Leader Snooki

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    Honestly my main worry with the film is it not having great characters. You need good characters in film but especially in star wars because it's about them. That's why TFA worked so well for me was because of its great characters. I know Gareth Edwards is a competent director and he will for sure capture the feel and look of star wars, I just worry that he cant pull off the characters. Looking back at Godzilla and monsters, his cast was kind of boring and not that all interesting. Characters need archs and need to be believable for the audience for the film to work for me.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Yeah I get what you mean. There are still many who are going bonkers for SW having female leads. While I am not one to be bothered by this, I really wish that one day I could see a SW movie with a non-human lead. Sure I know I'll never see the day when I see a female lead like Sy Snootles or Greeata but a Twi'Lek or a Togruta female lead would work perfectly fine not to mention that both races are greatly liked by fans. SW is about galactic war yet it's starting to get a bit to humany for my tastes and this is starting to worry me.
     
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  20. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    "I don't like aliens" - Commander Shepard (Mass Effect).
     
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