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Predicting Rogue One's negative criticism

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Ammianus Marcellinus, Aug 8, 2016.

?

Which negative criticism is Rogue One most likely to receive?

  1. Political Correctness (PC): i.e. in a year of elections everything that is slightly left or liberal

  2. Sexist critique: "mary sue", forced feminism, any critique centred on the gender of the female lead

  3. Racial critique: "white people are bad guys", "this or that actor is an affront to his ethnicity"

  4. Genre critique: "this Star Wars is exactly the same as episode ../ or this particular war movie"

  5. Feeling: "I liked some parts of it, but it just doesn't feel like Star Wars"

  6. Comparison: "I'd rather watch/ I liked this movie better"

  7. Line delivery and acting performance: "this line wasn't very good" - the critic says

  8. Plot staples: "the story doesn't make sense"/ "the plot is convoluted"

  9. Cinematography: "I don't like shaky cams"

  10. Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    The middle aged woman in front of me in my premier screening of Suicide Squad told me after the film was over that she couldn't believe the critics gave it such a low rating. So, she looked at the scores, but still got a front row seat at a standard projection theatre.
     
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  2. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    I agree with that theory - and you don't even have to articulate it.
     
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  3. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    The problem with it feeling like a SW movie is the Storm Troopers actually being a strong adversary and accurate with their weapons. The formula that George Lucas and Spielberg had (which I had always enjoyed) was the campy, stooge feeling of the henchmen in their movies. Indiana Jones gave us stooge like Nazi's and SW gave us the same with the storm troopers. I think RO will break that mold which will make it feel like a totally different kind of film.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2016 ---
    That's fantastic and wish it were so. :(
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I *BARELY* got through the movie...it was that bad...apparently it'sstill breaking records but I hope R1, as good/bad it might be, at least will break records as it would need to so future movies for spinoffs can be sound and secure
    .
     
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  5. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    I hear ya. Some like it, some don't. R1 trailer didn't feel any different in tone, and I think the only thing that might really hurt it is possible wonky dialogue or just that it's darker than the serials. And with a city atop a butte and other stuff I think we got the "big" angle covered. Everyone's gonna like it.. Except for the kiddies. And the "Mary Sue" crowd of course. They've already declared their intent to trash this movie.
     
    #105 Talon Karrde, Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
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  6. They Live

    They Live Clone Trooper

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    I would have gone with choices #1 #2 and #3 had the option been available.

    Elan sleazebaggano went home to rethink his life.

    Disney needs to go back to drawing board and rethink their strategy.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    ^(epic fail)
     
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  8. SWpinsFTW

    SWpinsFTW Clone

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    *lulz* People gonna people. :Rolling eyes:
     
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  9. mrverylongusername

    mrverylongusername Rebelscum

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    I'm sure it makes it a lot easier for the average 11 year old looking for a role model.
     
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  10. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I noticed something odd in the new canon. I noticed this especially in Lost Stars, Battlefront Twilight Company and Aftermath, and also the new canon surrounding Ray Sloane. They emphasize narratively when someone has a "brown skin", but they don't emphasize any other colour or ethnicity. They don't say "she's asian" or "she's white". It this a form of inverted racism? I know the intentions are good and honest, but why don't they allow the readers themselves to fill in the features of the characters themselves. It's racial stereotyping of a different kind which upsets me very much. I can understand why you should do this in the narrative environment of a graphical novel, movie or tv series. But it is rather strange when they do this in a novel. It's must be a directive from higher up the Lucasfilm story group. But the exact reasons why this is an necessity eludes me.
     
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  11. mrverylongusername

    mrverylongusername Rebelscum

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    I guess with Asia being far far away it wouldn't make much sense to describe someone that way
     
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  12. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    You're confusing stormtroopers with battledroids.

    Go back and watch the OT again, particularly ANH. The stormtroopers are cannon fodder, yes. But they aren't going around stooging it up for the cameras either. And no, they don't end up blasting our heroes to smithereens, not because it's campy but because that would have made for one helluva short movie. (They certainly did more than just pratfalling their way around the Lars farm, judging by our last glimpse of Owen and Beru, or what was left of them.)

    This notion that enemy soldiers in the SW universe must be harmless goofballs that pose no genuine threat whatsoever didn't come around until TPM. And IMHO, the PT films were less for having been saddled with that concept. I see no reason why the same mistake should be made with the new SW films.
     
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  13. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    And that's exactly the point. Why would they even bother. If I want to imagine a character in a novel as black I have a right to do so.
     
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  14. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Define 'brown skin' and 'black'.

    Those two descriptions don't necessarily match up. They match up only in your mind - imposing a racial construct created by Earth-people that doesn't necessarily exist in the GFFA (and barely exists in human reality, only in the legacy of human law on Earth).
     
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  15. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    That is exactly the problem. Why do they bother writing it down in the first place? I have a whole range of ideas what "as brown as her skin" alonside "curly dark hair" might mean. But it is narrated nonetheless. It IS a racial construct. They don't bother to write. Governor Whatever is a has skin as white as his imperial uniform. But they do write that this or that character has skin as brown as .......

    Only white people could write something like that. :p Racial constructs shouldn't matter in the Star Wars universe, I believe that, yet people are forced to imagine a novel character according to a racial construct nonetheless. Its fundamentally wrong and I don't like it. I will adress Pablo on it.
     
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  16. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    You're still reading it as interpretation of 'race' - a construct we created with law and pseudo-science.

    Brown skin is brown skin - whether its from a person that looks like Gandhi or a person that looks like Lebron. Curly dark hair could be as curly as Cher in the 80's, or as Whitney Houston in the 90's, or Shirley Temple, or Gina Torres.

    You're making that 'race' association yourself, when the text is simply describing what a person looks like. In fact, the fact you think its 'forced' on you is indicative of how insidious race is as a human construct.
     
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  17. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Forget the negative nincompoops, I hope that SWR1 is the embodiment of this line from Star Wars:

    "Before the dark times... before the Empire."

    Gritty, ominous & concludes w/ the Tantive IV flying towards the light at the end of the hyperspace tunnel over Tatooine.
     
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  18. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I am indeed making a "race" association, because no one bothers to write it down when someone has a "white skin" in a Star Wars novel. Nor should they, it has no narrative function or relevance to the story only when in visual media it had already been established that this or that person is of this or that ethno-racial background. And I don't care if there are different grades of brown (the comparison above is itself racist, to an extent). It's the discourse that matters, the vocabulary, the language which reveals a description to be a ethno-racial construct. And I don't mean "forced" in the way that someone is forcing an ethnic trope on me, but is does feel forced when this racial ascription is suddenly emplotted in a star wars novel where colour, race or ethnicity is not meant to be an issue. Only identity should be the focus of narrative description in a Star Wars novel. Why does Cienna's brown skin in Lost Stars even matter? Why is it the focus of a narrative description. It has no function whatsover. We already know Thane and Cienna lived on the same planet but both originated in different social groups. Cienna originates from a previous group of colonists who live primitive lives and privilege honour over everything else. Thana originates from a different social spectrum of later colonists: a group which functions as a psuedo-nobility in a world of social privilege. Nevertheless the author drops a colour description in a novel where ethnicity, race or colour should not be an issue and has no narrative function. It was social identity which mattered and had relevance to the story of Thana and Cienna, not colour! In Star Wars all are equal, yet the author chooses to distinguish, or more specifically, categorize, by means of colour.

    Another faulty ethno-racial construct in the new Star Wars canon: Kanjiklub. Apparently Kanjiklub gangmembers have an exclusively Indonesian background on screen (undeniable). No other organization in the star wars universe is portrayed as being racially exclusive, but kanjiklub is. Now the intentions of the casting were probably honest: the actors are martial art experts. But then Han Solo says something interesting about the group: "you don't trust those little freaks". The groupmembers themselves converse in a psuedo-indonesian language construct. What makes it a ethno-racist trope is in the end the combination of all these elements:
    a. Indonesian actors
    b. You don't trust those little freaks (this is especially racist, because it is the same language used by Dutch colonials in the first half of the twentieth century in the Dutch East Indies and indicative of similar language used in the US to generalize about people of Asiatic descent
    c. Unintelligable language

    The new canon is not as racist as the previous old EU, and the prequels especially, but it still contains racist constructs nonetheless. They should really take effort to prevent themselves from making such constructs. You can't deny this.
     
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  19. mrverylongusername

    mrverylongusername Rebelscum

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    Does Thrawn's blue skin matter?
     
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  20. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    Yes, because it contrasts awesomely with his Red eyes ;).

    As for the main point of this thread, I think both criticisms and defenses for this film will run the gamut. There will be haters refusing to give it a chance, people who had genuine issues with it(although they still may have enjoyed the total package) and devoted, or in some cases, rabid fans who refuse to acknowledge any flaws in the film(see rabid PT fans who refuse to acknowledge any flaws with those movies for examples).

    I for one think it is going to be a good movie, however the jury is out on if it will be a great one. I have only seen one other movie by Gareth Edwards, his Godzilla movie. Having watched that movie, I can honestly say that I enjoyed it overall, but it definitely had some noticeable flaws. From the standpoint of spectacle and scale it was fantastic, seriously great stuff. Looking at the Rogue One trailers this far, it's safe to say that Mr Edwards won't let us down in that department, seriously chilling visuals full of awe once again.

    The area where his Godzilla movie stumbled a bit was in the character department. I just didn't really care that much about the Soldier and his family, they were full and boring. It would have been a much better movie had it focused on either the father or the Japanese scientist, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

    Based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the area where this movie stumbles a little, in turn being a potential point of contention for critics and fans.
     
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