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SPECULATION Prequel Elements

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Klai Kenobi, Oct 19, 2017.

?

Would you like to see more prequel elements added to the sequels?

  1. Yes, avoiding them too much will become a distraction.

    30 vote(s)
    85.7%
  2. No, we don't need anything more from the prequels in the sequel trilogy.

    5 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    I see what you mean. Honestly, I don't even know why they didn't label Mustafar in RO. It was the only planet in the movie that was visited that they didn't label. Maybe it was because they expected us to recognize it? Even then, my cousin didn't even know that it was Mustafar, because it looked different from how it appeared in ROTS.

    I agree that politics should not be a central part of Star Wars (the films at least), but I feel that the sequel trilogy definetly could benefit from some. Not necessarily taxation or anything like that, but without reading books or comics, the average movie-goer wouldn't understand the Resistance isn't part of the New Republic, how the New Republic doesn't view the First Order as a threat, or anything like that.
     
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  2. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    I don't advocate that the affairs of the Republic have no place, I am just saying that the story so far has not needed it and that it is disingenuous to claim that it is being ignored.
     
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  3. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    Nothing to do with the story because JJ Abrams decided to go full basic b*tch. lol it's the most basic and linear rehash of the OT it could possible be. Good thing the characters where charming or this sequel would be so doomed in my book.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2017 ---
    Also, you are right, my initial thought was prequel elements being ignored, but now I'm realizing it's the entire universe just regurgitated into their own version with different names and slightly different looks. :/
     
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  4. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    Well, I guess I've seen enough.
     
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  5. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    I see what you mean. I also agree when you say the prequels have not been ignored: we're still getting various comics/novels/references/character appearances to this day.

    I could also see Luke giving Rey a brief history lesson on the history of the Jedi or Snoke giving Kylo a similar lesson about the Sith/Empire.
     
  6. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    completely agree. It would have only taken one scene where Leia is sitting with other politicians at Hosnian Prime discussing the downfall of the Newly built republic, Star Killer Base and mentioning the once again extinct Jedi. That's all I needed. It would be awesome to see Leia be in that role as well sort of reminiscent of Padme. Like a Padme/Yoda hybrid of the New Republic. lol
     
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  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The antagonistic force of the story is a fanatical government institution, bent on galactic conquest, eliminating and replacing the reigning legislative administration. That’s politics.
     
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  8. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    Right and this story is about that man finding and eliminating The Last Jedi so that the new Jedi will not rise. Nowhere does he directly mention gaining control of the government.
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I think you’re missing the bigger picture here. Snoke only cares about new Jedi because they’d be a threat to him and his plans for galactic domination. Those are the stakes here. Not just finding a map to a guy - the tyrannical First Order conquering and subjugating whole civilizations. Imposing a fascist autocracy and eliminating liberty in the galaxy.

    ALL Star Wars movies are political commentaries. That was George Lucas’s whole point. They’re meant to serve as cautionary tales warning of the corruption of power within society and how its people have to stand up against it.
     
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  10. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    I get your point, but having entirely different planets, systems protagonists and antagonists without explaining much of it at all screams laziness and in my mind. You're writing a story here and Star Wars has always at least been a complete and detailed story in Lucas's hands.
     
  11. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    They can't make a 2+ hour movie that gives us the "big picture". In the OT, we got to see how Imperial rule affected the galaxy but outside of a few lines, saw nothing of government. In the PT, we got to see the focus shift to galactic government, but did not see how The Clone Wars affected the galaxy until we got that TV series. In this trilogy, we are seeing an evil dude trying to snuff out what can stop him while also weaving a main story about the rise of a new generation of heroes. There is no time for "the big picture". It's also why they say that all of our questions about Snoke likely won't be addressed. We will only get to see what the story that they can tell us in 2+ hours needs us to see.
     
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  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Perhaps too detailed and too controlled, though.
    The PT sought to answer too many mysteries that didn't need unfolded.

    Leaning too hard into political Star Wars takes away too much of what people love about Star Wars...the fantasy escapism. Which is what the PT did.

    We can look back at this now, and say all these things about politics in the GFFA but they weren't always there. And perhaps they do not belong on the big screen but the small screen where more time can be taken to unfold and explain them in detail.
     
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  13. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    So agree on this, just because the films are character driven doesn't mean you completely side step what the current state of the galactic republic is in and how it got into such turmoil. Was the new republic still in its rebuilding stages or was it even really established as a working system after the fall of the Empire? Did they ever rebuild the Republic and democracy at all? Are we just assuming Snoke is in charge of the galaxy or is he more of a looming threat from afar? We shouldn't have to read books to know the answer to simple questions like these.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2017 ---
    The scene in ANH with the Empire discussing their finally disintegrating the last of the old republic did not take away, but added major depth and stakes to the film. Also, it was an awesome scene that only took 3 min? I still felt a ton of magic and escapism in ANH plus layers of plot that only added depth and urgency not to mention made our characters even more heroic fighting against such a powerful force.
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    ANH deftly gave us with Obi-Wan’s exposition dump all we needed to know about the political climate and underline conflict of the film. A dictatorial Empire overthrew a democratic Republic, exterminated its peace keepers, and now a band of insurgence are rebelling against them. That only took a couple minutes of screen time and we then knew who was who, what they wanted and why the two sides are in opposition. Simple.

    Who are the First Order? What exactly is the scope of their influence in the galaxy? How does that affect the New Republic? What IS the New Republic? Who is the Resistance? Hux’s diatribe drops some clues but it’s still left pretty vague. That’s half way through the movie, and then, the New Republic is gone now? Or is it? If they were a nonfactor before, then why are they even in the movie?
    There’s enough time for whatever they want. It doesn't take a half hour for one character to tell another what the hell is happening.
     
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  15. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    No thanks on the politics. ZZZzzzzz...A planet, maybe, sure. Btw, Rian likes the PT, so he may have a few easter eggs possibly.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Right, the OT knew how to do this. For instance, we see Tagge, Vader, Tarkin and friends when they learn of the dissolution of the Senate. These are characters we care about, and this scene accomplishes far more than simply letting the audience know about the Senate- it also gives us a view of the Dark Side, Imperial Hierarchy, and the Death Star.

    Fast forward to TPM, and we have entire scenes in the Senate discussing the Chancellor's leadership and Naboo trade regulations. I know that the typical advice for writers is "Show, don't tell", but when your subject is kind of dry it's okay to have it happen offscreen and we learn about it later. Seeing Padme simply leave for the Senate, then come back later and say "The Senate will not help us" could've been just as good, even if we'd also have to vicariously learn about Palpatine's ascension too. Or really, almost any Senate scene could've been done this way in the PT. Same goes for Jedi Council stuff, too. We didn't actually have to be at every meeting.
     
    #36 cawatrooper, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The political framing for the OT was ‘CIVIL WAR’. That’s a pretty sexy topic. The PT’s big lead in was ‘TAXATION OF TRADE ROUTES’. An important issue, from a practical perspective sure, but GOD - not for an action/adventure/fantasy. Of course that version of politics is boring. Aaron Sorkin couldn’t have made that crap compelling. Ultimately it's irrelevant anyway since the whole thing was a smoke screen for Palpatine. Lucas could have picked any real world issue to hold a mirror up to and 'predatory trade practices' is what he landed on? Boggles my mind.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Exactly. And it's not like Star Wars is based on real events. Lucas didn't have to choose an incredibly boring political topic to cover, and he certainly didn't have to micromanage it so much.

    Poor choices all around.
     
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  19. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Pretty big indictment of the Prequels and their politics that I began dozing off while reading this thread. :rolleyes:

    Therefore, I strongly suggest [/CLOSE-THREAD]

    :p
     
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  20. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    Or just stay out of it. Won't hurt my feelers like the Prequels hurt yours.
     
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