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Prequel Trilogy - Special Editions?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by ZebroGodilla, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    Been a long time since I posted a thread, but here goes :D

    VFX and CGI, thanks to Lucas and Spielberg, have become quite possibly the most important parts of the blockbuster genre. We all know Lucas already released Special Editions of the Original Trilogy, and while some updates were nice and minor, others entirely adjusted major scenes (controversially, in several important ones). But good updates engage most fans, as seen in this wonderful fan-made scene for ANH, where Vader and Obi-Wan duel, easily the clunkiest fight in the entire saga, is reworked. Rebels has established Obi-Wan as being more efficient and focused as a duelist, and while this may be over the top, it does elevate the emotions of the scene fairly well-



    Furthermore, with CGI Tarkin and Leia in Rogue One, Lucasfilm has shown a willingness to use CGI-created characters when necessary. While done fairly well, the uncanny valley still exists with these two creations. In the superb Blade Runner 2049, a CGI model of a younger Sean Young was made so well that it was actually reinserted into the original movie, and was then shown to Denis Villeneuve, who was hesitant about a CGI character in 2049, until he was blown away by the dupe.

    http://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/blade-runner-2049-vfx-replicant-sean-young-rachael-1201889072/

    Now to the main question - Could the PT benefit from updated VFX? We've had fairly recently TPM puppet Yoda replaced by CGI Yoda in the Blu-Ray Complete Saga, so there is already "special editions" of the prequels. More specifically, however, updates to set design, characters (Dax anyone?), and even entire battles could really improve upon the visual creations in the PT. Rogue One may itself get updates to improve Tarkin and Leia in the future, so why not attempt to improve the overall consistency of the Prequels. I understand the idea of "Special Editions" near Star Wars raises quite a few alarms, but when done well, it can really improve upon the weaknesses of PT's CGI and CFX, if not the saga's as a whole.
     
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  2. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    If you're thinking of visual effects touch ups, I don't mind. But if you're talking about literally re-writing Lucas' story, I have a major problem with that.
     
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  3. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    No, as a prequel fan myself, I just think the CGI has not aged well in action scenes. In terms of landscapes and establishing shots, it still stands fairly well.
     
  4. darth sputnik

    darth sputnik Rebelscum

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    Would LOVE updated effects in the prequels, and even in the OT. Star Wars has established itself as a living, changing phenomenon, so I see nothing wrong with periodic updates until the end of time (but NOT changes that affect the story, i.e Greedo shoots first, "Jedi Rocks", etc). But yeah, the prequels would especially benefit from updated effects. Ironically, they've aged far worse than the practical effects of the OT, with AOTC being the most egregious.
     
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  5. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    I'd say the scenes that stick out the most to me are the land battles outside the Geonosis arena and Obi-Wan and Mace walking through the Jedi Temple. The Geonosis red sand could look really amazing with an update, imo, looking more like this consistently, at the very least.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    I like this idea a lot!
     
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  7. darth sputnik

    darth sputnik Rebelscum

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    Yeah, that Jedi temple scene is so dreadfully green-screened it hurts. And it's a real shame the actual clone battles look so poor. Had it been made today, CGI troopers would likely look fine, but back in 2002 all I could think was "Why oh why didn't you just dress people up???"
     
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  8. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    It would also just be near impossible to have everyone of the same exact height, to be fair. I definitely think the CGI would be lifelike today, and just have a sense of CLARITY
     
  9. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox Rebel Trooper

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    I wouldn't mind seeing new editions of all 6 classic films, but at the same time, I don't care either way.
     
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  10. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    i atcually think a lot of the CGI has stood up really well, The Gungans vs the Droid army at the end of the Phantom Menace does look a bit ropey now though.

    But i was watching revenge of the Sith the other Day and i still say the battle of Coruscant is the best looking space battle ever filmed, this is not a dis agaisnt the one in the Last Jedi or Rogue One(or Return of the Jedi for that matter) they look great, but for me some of the shots at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith are just incredible, it's the kind of thing I imagined seeing when i was a kid and then suddenly it was their on screen!
     
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  11. A Concerned Fan

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    I'm all for updating/sprucing up the fight scenes in the OT with some CGI. I always thought they should update that fight scene between Vader and Obi-Wan in ANH with some CGI. If possible they should change the dialogue slightly as well and have Obi-Wan call Vader "Anakin" instead of "Darth". A little upgrade to the Vader/Luke duel in RotJ would be cool too. I think a neat little addition to RotJ would be a scene showing or explaining somehow that Luke finds Qui-Gon's Lightsaber in Old Ben's hut and takes the crystal out of it to use in his lightsaber. I'd add Force Ghost Qui-Gon to the end of RotJ as well. I guess if we're accepting Ahsoka as canon they could probably add a mention of her in RotS, that might be a neat little nod to her fans. Creating and adding a new fight scene between Grievous and a couple of Jedi in RotS (with Grievous killing them) would be cool too, and would show how badass he was supposed to be. It would also give a little more weight to his showdown with Obi-Wan. In RotS they should redo the whole showdown between Palpatine and the Jedi that come to arrest him too. The scene from the book was so much better, they should use that. The Palpatine vs Mace duel should be upgraded too with more visible action to show how skilled they both were. Also, a new full scene showing Anakin going through the temple laying waste and fighting/killing a few Jedi.
     
    #11 A Concerned Fan, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2018
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  12. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    I agree, the battle is still very impressive, though it is a bit cartoonish, even when it first came out. The camera work is what still holds up the best imo, by having us have our two Jedi Knights navigate through the battle (a bit too artfully haha), it showcases the extent of the battle and their individual skills and banter. I think the Battle of Scarif is now my favorite space battle, however.

    I agree with the Gungan battle looking off now. The biggest thing I attribute that to is extensive CGI on film, not digital. With age, it'll only become more obvious, whereas AOTC and ROTS can easily be manipulated and updated without any issues.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---
    Of the lightsaber fights, Obi-Wan and Vader deserve a small update of sort. The camerawork doesn't have to be drastically different, and the fight can be as careful and delicate as in the original. In Rebels, Maul and Obi-Wan fight, and the fight is done very quickly, but is still very impressive. I think adding a few moves where the raw power of Vader is showcased, and Obi-Wan's methodical approach is even more careful and calculated now, would make the fight both more important as a delaying mechanism for Leia's rescue, as well as simply more believable. I don't know about a dialogue change, many theories now make it seem that Obi-Wan and Vader met again once more, but again, just theories. I find that ESB's fight holds up very well, whereas there are only 2 shots in ROTJ's lightsaber fight that are improvmenets in speed, technique and power over ESB, but Luke here is trying to avoid fighting his father. Maybe clean up some of the clunky strikes when his rage takes over him and he initially restarts the fight with Vader are in order, but besides that I'm not sure. I think the Qui-Gonn idea is nice, but unnecessary. Luke doesn't need any connection to Jinn, and if anything, Jinn's connection to his father's rise and fall is established and settled in the PT. Ahsoka is canon, maybe a nod to her would be cool, as well as Captain Rex. Maybe a mention from Obi-Wan or Anakin after they return to Coruscant about how they wonder the capture of Maul went, etc. Or maybe when the Jedi council is discussing the war movements (in this case a person's voice could be added, no character would have to be shown, which would be simple). As a whole, it's more fan-service that important to the plot of Anakin's emotional instability and the final crack in the armor of the hero, which turns him to darkness to save his love. Grievous, imo, has to be seen as the whiny, powerful but incomplete villain for this movie. Dooku, the perfect CIS leader, is killed by his opposite, Anakin. Grievous is a great warrior, but as a strategist and lightsaber wielder, he's more flash than real power, even in the CGI Clone Wars series. His voice also makes him more pathetic than powerful, unlike his 2003 animated cartoon version. At this point, if any change is made, it's to highlight how Grievous as a leader is pathetic, the CIS is doomed, and the real power still eludes the Jedi. The original stuntman for the Mace and Sidious fight was actually put aside since Lucas wanted Ian McDiarmid to do his own stunts, which is why it's not a really convincing fight, so fixing that would be really nice. I would like the addition of that scene of laying waste. We see him lead the clones up the stairs, and into the temple. Then we see him slaughter children. Add a scene of massacre, of all ages, species, etc, would show his fall even more.
     
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  13. SethW

    SethW Rebelscum

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    I agree with some of the points being made. While it would be nice seeing updated visual effects, it begs the question of why not do that with all movies with "dated" visual effects (i.e., re-release those films every couple of years with the best VFX)?

    In my opinion, you shouldn't re-release films where the only change is updating the VFX. You should re-release films if the films have many different changes to them, including but not limited to adding/removing/changing/updating scenes and sequences, or sounds, or VFX, or improving the overall quality of the video.

    If Jurassic Park was re-released every few years with updated dinosaur models, the film would suffer, as people would get bored of it and it would be unnecessary. The film stood on it's own when it was released, and if a film is well-crafted and well-executed, it doesn't really matter how the special effects look. Jaws works because of that, and the PT doesn't because they were not well-crafted or well-executed (for the most part).

    To conclude with the main question, I don't think updated VFX would help the PT, as the films are "bad" due to bad story, bad characters, and bad writing. Although the VFX are not great, they are good enough to help the audience understand what is happening on the screen, and the move the plot along.
     
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