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Question about the size of the backlash

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Pobody's Nerfect, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I think people should be free to display their like or dislike for something in whatever way they wish as long as they are not offensive to anyone. If people feel better in numbers, great. I personally don't care if people disagree with me or if I am on my own liking or disliking something. I will always listen to what people have to say and in more than one occasion people make me reconsider and change my mind, which is good. As for TFA and TLJ, in my experience, every casual fan of the franchise loved them thinking TLJ was the better of the two. The more dedicated fans like myself preferred TFA but liked TLJ well enough. My take on this was that the more knowledgeable you are, the more demanding and therefore expectations are naturally higher. It took me a while to get TLJ and still have some problems with it but, let's be honest, it's a great film. As a regular movie goer I know the standard out there and nobody can tell me that TLJ is a mediocre film. The oscar nominations are well deserved.

    The lack of success in China is apparently due to cultural reasons. The franchise is little known there and is not the kind of sci-fi the public there normally enjoy. It seem that after TFA and Rogue One the audiences were left a bit confused about the story.
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

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    a lot of English is also heavily context-dependent, so yeah, it's a hard language in that regard.

    p.s. handschuh is one of my favorite German words. XD
     
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  3. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I like every compound word which includes the word "zeug". Feuerzeug (fire thing = lighter), Flugzeug (flight thing = plane), Grünzeug (green thing(s) = vegetables). They are easy and effective to use which means it doesn't get more German than this :p

    Context-dependency in English is a nightmare, especially when you combine one and the same verb with different pronouns which completely changes its meaning. One of my distant relatives from Arkansas told me that her ex-boyfriend had "knocked her up" which I confused with "knocked her out". Needless to say that it was quite confusing for everyone involved...
     
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  4. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    Nope. Never said that. At all.
     
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  5. Syeana Tovari

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    I don't know .. Validation maybe? The more you have people agreeing with you, the more valid your opinions are? Honestly, I try hard not to look into human behavior, .. understanding why people do what they do, or the way they think. If I do, I'd surely be wasting my time. :)

    Quote I found a long time ago: "Don't worry about what I'm doing, instead worry about why you are worried about what I'm doing" .. when you focus on someone else's opinions so much, you are no longer focusing on yourself, and your own learning and growth. :) Cheers and smiles !
     
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  6. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    So here the question by the Op perfectly depicts you.

    Why does it matter that you think more people like TLJ and the ST?

    I think in both cases a part of us wants things to change or keep going (depending on your opinion of the film(s)). Greater numbers one way or the other can affect change. I think there's a general feel that this SW isn't the same as when GL (the creator) was at the helm. It was his baby, his vision. You can dislike it (and I did on the PT) but you can't deny that it's SW.

    Now it's no longer GL, so many (some) fans feel these films no longer have the same vision (regardless if they're using GL's previous work, because we don't know what they're keeping and what they're changing). While before we could dislike a movie but accept that it's SW due to it being GL's vision, now many (some) fans feel that the vision could be off, wrong, mistaken, misinterpreted ect...

    Personally I don't think we'll ever get a definitive answer. Which is why I generally try and stay away form these discussions, but here's how I think.

    If most fans like it, the money will keep coming in, but if there are drops (financially) fans who dislike it will say it's due to poor product, while it could simply be SW fatigue or a ton of other reasons.

    If most fans dislike it, the money stops coming in, fans can say it's due to a multitude of reasons (see any discussion on TLJ) while those who like it can claim it's fatigue.

    Neither will ever be able to be provable because if the money starts to dry out, it won't take long for Disney to make changes. KK isn't young, and the SW fan base almost guarantees that SW movies will hover around the billion dollar mark (800 mil at the low end), but if it dips around there, Disney could bring in someone else to helm it in 10 years or so, and those who like everything that's made can claim it was due to age, while those who dislike it will claim it's due to bad product (fan backlash).

    So much like that lambchops song... this is the argument that never enda.... it just keeps going on and on my friends.... fans on both sides have started singing it, not knowing what it meant,.... but now that they keep singing it it just goes on and on again... so... (back to the top)... this is the argument that never ends..... (you get my meaning).

    The sad thing is that we keep getting sucked into the argument over and over again. I've resisted for a while, but I'm sure I'll get off guard one day and succumb again too.
     
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  7. The Nerf Herder!

    The Nerf Herder! Rebelscum

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    I do not like how many peoples complaints are just completely ridiculous. I’ve been a film fanatic my whole life and that love of film came from SW. I am not by any means somebody who likes and defends TLJ because I’m a blind fanboy. I genuinely love TLJ though. It really is a great film. It has a straightforward narrative and everything in the film has a purpose. TLJ does have filmmaking flaws however, but every film does! For example, many people dislike the Leia in space sequence, but after repeated viewings, there’s nothing wrong with it. The editing on the entire scene is completely fine. Much of the issue with this scene (which I had as well!) is the disbelief of Leia surviving the vacuum of space, but in the physics of the SW universe, it’s actually not that far fetched. Many of the complaints that drain my soul of all compassion and comprehension are those of, “I hate how they wasted Snoke”, “Rey is a nobody? I could care less about her now, she should have been a Skywalker or a Kenobi”, “The whole plot of this movie is based around a stupid chase”. The worst part is that many people consider these complaints “plot holes”. The only problem with TLJ are all of the false expectations and over-hyped theories that were based around the film before it’s release. Now, almost 3 months later people are still complaining about these same theories, saying “SW is dead”. RJ began his script for TLJ before TFA even released, and before all of these expectations and theories had built up. RJ did not just trash what J.J. had set up in TFA. IF J.J. AND KK did not like or in any way agree with RJ’s vision, they would not have allowed him to see it through. Never did I think we would have a time where it is “mainstream” to bash SW. It seems that lately LFL can not do anything right with the SW franchise. All of this bashing has almost no foundation though. ESB was based on a chase. Snoke was never the main antagonist, Kylo is. Snoke was always just a Palpatine rip-off anyways (who we knew nothing about until the prequels). Rey being a Skywalker or Kenobi would be so stupid it makes me nauseous. Daisy Ridley was quite literally telling us long before TLJ came out that Rey’s lineage was obvious! In the first full length TFA trailer, Rey states that she’s nobody (which is why she is so important). Yes, this is a saga about the Skywalker family, but this trilogy has been all about their saga ending, HENCE it being the LAST trilogy of their saga. Holdo withholding information from Poe? How is this a complaint. She knew about his flyboy antics with the bombers (as did the whole Resistance) and set out to teach him a lesson by Showing him the chain of command. Luke Skywalker died with his legend sparking hope within the galaxy again. EVERYTHING in TLJ has a purpose. Yet it’s on the same level as TPM. If you legitimately don’t like the film for creative decisions not based on preconceived expectations which are almost impossible to satisfy without catering, then by all means dislike it.
     
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  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    As far as I'm concerned, you can like or dislike TLJ for any reason you want, no one needs my permission or approval. It's all a matter of perception, preference and ability to suspend disbelief.
     
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  9. StarWarsGaming

    StarWarsGaming Rebelscum

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    This is so pathetic I don’t understand these people. It’s ptobably a strength in numbers thing you said.
     
  10. LoneWolf

    LoneWolf Clone

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    Hello, this is my first and also last contribution to this forum. Please, forgive my grammar, but English is not my mother tongue.

    The last weeks have shown us that there are happy fans, who love TLJ and, unfortunately, also people(like me), who may not like TLJ for different reasons (for me the main reason is, how the old characters are treatened).

    But on the real subject which I haven't found mentioned in no official interview or article:
    is it not dreadful that something like Star Wars, something many of us united for years and held together, even if we were not in agreement of everything, that this Star Wars is the reason we are so divided?! We do not talk anymore about whether Jar Jar Links is being amusing or stupid and superfluous?

    It feels like a line is drawn between the two fractions. Each side is doing everything to damage of the other side. Peopleare iscalled, offended and humiliated on each side.
    Wouldn't it be better if both sides are trying to understand the other point of view, to feel sympathy or sorrow?

    Is it really what we want from star War? Muchmore importantly, and this is the substantial question: is this really what Lukasfilm, Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, Ran Johnson and J. J.Abrams intended for Star Wars? A fandom divided?

    I don't really know. Somebody really know somebody of influence, I would be very much gratified on an answer.

    May the Force be with you and farewell!
     
    #30 LoneWolf, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  11. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    I call it Lego language like hungarian. This language is just crazy to learn.

    Even saying hello is complicated and they have 27 declension different rules.
     
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  12. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    To fiew people understand this film.
    Those who like it because its "progressive "and prize it because of no-lineage hero are actually wrong, they are projecting something that film ,that is cloaked, is actually not,.
    Those who hate it because of same exact thing are also wrong, because Rey is most estraordinary character in history of Star Wars, with the ancestry that will be at the end unexpected and most satissfying for the fans.

    This is the epic film. Made as preparation for the grand finale, its perfectly professionaly made anticlimax.
    That is why Disney, and LSL have no worry, backlash is great thing.
    The more backlash, the better.

    I am very happy , because episode IX will be blast. For all.
     
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  13. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Hungarians and Finns have the most bizarre languages in all of Europe. I live in Vienna and some of my friends are from Budapest. To this day I don't even know how to order a beer in Hungarian even though they have told me numerous times :)
     
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  14. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    Harom sörök ! Egy sör !
     
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  15. NOT JEDI MATERIAL

    NOT JEDI MATERIAL Rebel Trooper

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    The backlash , if their is one, will be quite evident in the lack of usual hype and excitement for ep 9. Long way off yet but my guess is Disney may see as much as a $250 million drop in profit in the end mostly due to the unpredictable cinema market today. TFA was the sound new beginning but TLJ was not what many wanted and the momentum may be a bit lost right now because of it.
     
  16. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    There are two choices Disney can make to keep the momentum
    1. More films
    2. More adult novels.

    I think Disney is choosing more films at the moment. books are secondary to them.
    It's unfortunate because the official policy seems to be pumping out fifteen to twenty ages 0 to 4 children's material per one adult novel. Those adult novels published are not covering new ground. You would think I was exaggerating about the number of children's books per one adult novel, but check wookieepedia for upcoming books.

    SW survived for a long time without films with toys and books. Toys aren't selling and who with book money would buy children's materials?
     
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  17. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I personally care about the movies. I want a SW movie a year. I don't care about the books. I generally read the plot summaries about them anyways.
     
  18. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    Rephrase. Why do those who like the movie(nobody really loves that thing) feel the need to try to make like there is no backlash?

    The answer is quite simple and its that the backlash will either be proven or not. How? By how the subsequent movies perform. That's the proof. Either for or against. And you're scared out of your mind we just might be right and that the core audience of these films revolted, while people who have a disdain for the Saga(including Darth Rainy), apparently liked it the one time they saw it. So we get hand-wringing threads like this where you fret over people talking about the backlash.

    The sad part being that you don't realize that in talking about it, you make it ever more real. So please, keep talking about the people talking about the backlash. The only thing people take away is that there must be one, or you wouldn't be talking about it.
     
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  19. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    Your analysis seems sound to me, we're talking a Star Wars movie, we all know Star Wars is huge, so the drop off is a really important figure and even your expectations haven't been met in that just a few months later Solo has actually lost money, the reaction to the TLJ is surely an element in that.
     
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I just read my old comment and I had to laugh when reading this line: "I think I won't live to see the day when a SW movie doesn't generate profit. That's out of the question due to the strength of the IP." And now we have SOLO bombing at the BO. Oh how things have changed :/
     
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