1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPOILER Questions after watching TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Obi5Kenobi, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    2,842
    Credits:
    803
    Ratings:
    +703 / 14 / -1
    This reminds me of putting two frozen pizzas in the oven, on two different racks, to cook at the same time, even though the instructions say not to. They never come out right.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  2. Noen

    Noen Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Two approaches :

    General approach
    Take music. It requires talent, hard work, years of practice, and at the end no matter what each composer brings his character into the work he is creating. Character and soul are decisive factors. This applies also to the Force and it's cannon, as it clearly seen with Yoda and Qui-Gon Jinn.

    Yoda was significantly older than Qui-Gon having hundreds of years to practice and delve into the Force. His raw Force potential was undeniable at least, if not more than what Qui-Gon had. That's all great, but who discovered the way to keep one's identity after death ? Qui-Gon. Not the all powerful, all knowing, living for more 800 years (at that point) Yoda. This is cannon. So why ?

    Character. Soul. Qui-Gon approach to life and following the living Force paradigm, lead him to an incredible discovery, inconceivable by Jedi, considered to be far stronger and more "wise than him". Does this take away anything from Yoda ? No.

    Force abilities are like melodies. Mozart didn't came up with Purple Haze, and Hendrix didn't compose the Turkish March. So ? So nothing. Different people, all talented at music, worked hard at their craft at different times and played great but different songs. Purple haze doesn't retcon Mozart and Qui-Gon achievement doesn't retcon Yoda. There are thousands of Force abilities undiscovered, as there thousand of tunes to be played.

    Anakin being the Chosen one, means one thing. Immense, unseen and perhaps never to be seen again raw talent. This doesn't imply that he gets to play all the melodies there are. No one does.

    Specific approach
    Heal is a light side ability so for Vader to tap in that meant he would have to let go of the hate,rage,etc and all the things that kept him going as a Sith, and in fact as an individual at that point. When and if that happened, he was left with grief and sorrow with what he did. I don't think he would be able to lift a rock at that state of mind, let alone heal.

    I recently went through the Vader comics, and it was obvious that whenever he tried to let go, Padme popped up and he was shattered. At some point he seemed to decide and bury the past, i.e. fully dive into the dark side, which made healing inaccessible. Though, he knows (last comic of the series) that at some point in the future, the light will undo this persona.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Thretosix

    Thretosix Rebelscum

    Joined:
    May 19, 2015
    Posts:
    72
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    992
    Credits:
    509
    Ratings:
    +222 / 0 / -1
    She states to BB-8 she is transferring life when she heals the worm thing. It's why Ben dies at the end, he uses what's left of his life essence to bring Rey back. Essentially if he's healing himself he isn't transferring anything. My guess is he knew this when he told Han in his memory what he needed to do which is why he was so emotional. The Skywalkers have always had a knack for seeing the future. It's the core arc for Leia in the sequel, she knew all along and did what was needed at the right time, this is my guess for Carrie Fischer passing being so difficult to finish the sequel trilogy without her. I believe this would have been explained better. Ben would have likely never been accepted by the Resistance for what he'd done in the past, he knew that bringing back Rey was what was best for everyone. That's my take anyways.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  4. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Posts:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,368
    Ratings:
    +4,121 / 25 / -11
    good take, thank you for this @Thretosix (and @Noen also)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    29,067
    Trophy Points:
    152,752
    Credits:
    26,444
    Ratings:
    +30,927 / 4 / -4
    Now I want a new Cute rating.
    Healing is a selfless act transferring life. That means
    a) you can't heal yourself.
    b) you can't use the dark (selfish) side of the force.
    And Rey has the old Jedi books. Probably even Yoda didn't read all they have because "page turners they were not". And so old knowledge was forgotten (and finally recovered)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  6. Noen

    Noen Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Get ready for a super boring answer :cool:

    [START Answer A = "Death by technicalities"]

    Typically we don't know :
    - Who stumbled upon Force Heal and when (apart from the Child)
    - If that knowledge was recorded in the texts
    - If Rey read that part

    What we do know, is that Rey has them (what's in them?), seems to have read them (partially ? fully ?), and that the Wayfinder was included, which doesn't imply, that any info about Force Heal or any other abilities is in there.
    [/START Answer A="Why I'am reading this ?"]

    [START Answer B = "Noen, one more argument like this and you are getting (emperor)"]

    If cannon states explicitly that healing can't be achieved by a Dark side user, then you are right. I'am not sure about it to be honest and while intuitively it seems right, you have to consider that Sith are obsessed with eternal life. This implies that Sith have researched heavily how one can heal himself (Trophy gained: One zap). It was their ultimate goal.

    Think about Plagueis. He could keep other's from dying, i.e. he healed them when they were about to die. This implies, that one can heal other without being selfless (your wish for a 2nd zap has been granted). The fact that Plagueis can't heal himself, doesn't imply that dark side users can't, rather than he couldn't.

    Also, if you compare this approach with the "Rejoice for the ones you have joined the ..." Yoda lecture, it seems to me more probable, that Sith know a bit more from Jedi about healing, especially yourself.
    [/START Answer B="(emperor)(emperor)"]

    P.S. Just food for thought, not actually arguing in favor.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    29,067
    Trophy Points:
    152,752
    Credits:
    26,444
    Ratings:
    +30,927 / 4 / -4
    Thinking about the essence transfer thing Palpatine (or is it actually Bane?) wants to try on Rey. It is true from a certain point of view. By transfering himself into Palpatine he kept his former master (and his master before him) alive but not himself.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
    1030th Junior * (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    19,865
    Trophy Points:
    148,717
    Credits:
    11,666
    Ratings:
    +21,697 / 62 / -21
    I though Force Healing had always been in Star Wars? Isn't healing the first Force Power use we seen in Star Wars?

    Kenobi the Healer.png
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Posts:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,368
    Ratings:
    +4,121 / 25 / -11
    Very good catch @Angelman . So obvious!


    Even Sith Lords can heal:

    mustafar-3_f8aa3886.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  10. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Posts:
    2,492
    Likes Received:
    61,564
    Trophy Points:
    169,617
    Credits:
    33,631
    Ratings:
    +66,171 / 71 / -26
    Plagueis was able to resurrect others, not heal people. They had to die first, hence why it was "unnatural".
    Not quite, we see this power used various other times in canon. It seems to be more of an awakening ability, similarly to how we see force wielders use the force to put others to sleep.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Noen

    Noen Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Wait, I'am confused. I have read the Darth Plagueis novel (in which he resurrects), but it's not considered canon from what I know of. So, the only canon we have about him on this issue is : he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying, that is healing. I'am not up to date, so perhaps this is wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Posts:
    2,492
    Likes Received:
    61,564
    Trophy Points:
    169,617
    Credits:
    33,631
    Ratings:
    +66,171 / 71 / -26
    Palpatine also says during that scene he could create life, it's left ambiguous as to how he could save others from death. Healing is never explicitly mentioned. Resurrecting someone is still technically saving them from death.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
    1030th Junior * (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    19,865
    Trophy Points:
    148,717
    Credits:
    11,666
    Ratings:
    +21,697 / 62 / -21
    I always put that down to the fact that they didn't have CGI in the 1970s. This was how you depicted healing when you couldn't overtly show it through special effects.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. Noen

    Noen Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Very good take. I never thought of it this way. but you are right. Technically, you can keep one from (finally) dying by constantly resurrecting when each death occurs, i.e. no healing involved.

    Multiple deaths, followed by multiple resurrections is tight ! :).

    Thanks for the insight
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  15. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    2,161
    Trophy Points:
    8,117
    Credits:
    2,829
    Ratings:
    +3,343 / 26 / -4
    I never thought about that scene in that context. I always taken it as him just checking Luke's vitals or something. Now seeing that scene and him possibly doing some form of force healing/wake definitely changes things.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  16. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    29,067
    Trophy Points:
    152,752
    Credits:
    26,444
    Ratings:
    +30,927 / 4 / -4
    Somewhat like using a pacemaker isn't really healing, it's more like keep people from dying.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2020 at 2:29 PM, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2020 at 2:27 PM ---
    Not saying that your friendly cardiologist is a sith though.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  17. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Posts:
    232
    Likes Received:
    647
    Trophy Points:
    4,472
    Credits:
    1,577
    Ratings:
    +920 / 14 / -0
    This is most likely. Kinda like how Finn has a blaster in Maz's basement when the FO first attacks, then when they appear on the surface a few moments later, he asks for a weapon as his blaster has disappeared.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Veronica

    Veronica Clone

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Posts:
    5
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    9
    Credits:
    24
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    Because Palpy already knew (how I don't know) that Lea disrupted his plans (turned Ben) and he had handed command over to General Pride. So it was no point in him going back to the FO. Also given Ben/Kylo's foot dragging on 'killing' Rey, I think he no longer trusted Ren to take the lead of the FO.

    As to the question above about why Palpatine asked Ren to kill Rey. I heard it theorized that he wanted Ren to confront Rey. He probably would have told her the truth about her parents. She would have gotten into a rage like she did on the ship killed Ren and gone off half cocked gunning for Palpatine, killed him and Palpy would have taken over her body.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. Philo

    Philo Clone

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Posts:
    11
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    60
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    If I had enough time I would answer all your questions. Some of them are just farfetched. With a little effort, one can also get a similar list when studying the PT.

    I'll answer some of them:

    Hux has ALLWAYS been a bumbling idiot who hates Ren. Snoke put him in an important position to make him believe he was a baby Hitler. In fact, he was a puppet from the beginning.

    Off course people heard about Skywalker. At least about his confrontation with Ren. Did they know he sacrificed himself? Maybe not, but he became a legend. It was shown at the end of TLJ, does it need to be shown in TROS? Something that DOES happen in TROS: the Galaxy found hope and belief again. That's illustrated by the amount of allies Lando took with him. If you 'read between the lines' two questions are answered at the same time.

    About the OT heroes being idiots: no one is perfect. Some people complain about Mary Sue, some complain about characters having weaknesses.

    A lot of questions you ask are about plot points that didn't happen (Anakin being cloned, Palpatine having multiple children, Palpatine using Vader's voice,...). In every movie you have endless possibilities, unlimited choices. You can allways complain about choices not being made, but writers can only choose one thing.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Posts:
    2,492
    Likes Received:
    61,564
    Trophy Points:
    169,617
    Credits:
    33,631
    Ratings:
    +66,171 / 71 / -26
    Yes, there is a deleted scene where a squad of Stormtroopers attempts to confiscate their weapons. It was cut because it disrupts the pacing.
    He has the blaster in his hands during the first two shots where he's running under the cube, but the following one where he jumps he doesn't have it in his hands at all. They most likely just cut him holstering the blaster for time.
    Except it's executed in a hamfisted and cheap fashion. Never once prior to this scene in the film do we see this idea being seeded, anyone in the galaxy regaining hope etc. All we see the whole film is planets being oppressed and people surrendering to/ accepting First Order rule. Even just a small scene where the Resistance inspires a small-scale uprising or protest against the First Order... anything would have been better than what we got.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...

Share This Page