Questions after watching TROS

I have lots of unanswered questions, unfortunately. Now I've only seen it once and that was about a week ago so maybe my memory is failing me but here's one: The rebels defeated the Final Order ... but what about the First Order? Is it not still out there, in separate locations from the Emperor's sith fleet? I know with Kylo's defeat it's without its Supreme Leader, but others would have carried on. We were led to believe it was a massive operation. Or was the First Order's fleet with the Final Order there at the end? The fact I'm not clear on this -- that I can't even remember it -- is indicative of the flaws in the movie.

 

I think that's why we got that unremarkable montage at the end with all the those Star Destroyers crashing on different worlds. Those were the occupying First Order forces getting defeated because Lando is the most inspirational man to have ever existed and rallied the whole galaxy in an afternoon.

 

Did I miss Ben in the final scene?
If so, am I the only one who thinks his absence is a bit conspicuous while his mum, uncle, and 'other half' all share smiles?

 

Enjoying this thread.

my question is: did anyone see a mouse droid?

 

Ah. Yes I remember that now. I recall being confused why we were being transported to Endor, Cloud City, etc. to see Destroyers having had nothing to do with the battle at hand fall from the sky.

 

Rey’s keeping him in her lightsaber now. That’s why its yellow.

“This weapon is your life.” “Actually, it’s my boyfriend’s.”

You mean in the movie, or just in general?

 

The conclusion you've come to is that a doctor is essentially an amoral super id unconcerned with the human collateral damage laying in its wake like some Lovecraftian elder god, indifferent to the plight of mortality. That may sound like the well-reasoned truth to you, but to me it just sounds like the conclusion of someone engaging in poor reasoning based on unstated assumptions leading to a bad conclusion that's really just the unstated assumptions in disguise. But, again, I have no interest in exploring this line of discussion any further. It's just, meaningless to my own purpose in discussing the films.

About your interpretation of the narrative as meaning "this that and the other thing" that's great, but without supporting evidence for the actual narrative you're just espousing a personal philosophy completely detached from the narrative and having no meaningful association. It's like reading the Lord of the Rings and claiming, "I interpret this as meaning X" while offering no supporting evidence for the conclusion from the narrative. It's an explanation, sure. But a meaningless one in relation to the narrative.

I'd claim that the force is willing the events of the narrative from the statement "all is as the force wills it" from Rogue One. There's my narrative support for the conclusion. You got any for your interpretive conclusion? If, yes, feel free to state it. If no, take it easy.

 

That’s your evidence? An unverifiable declaration of faith, integral to that character’s personal belief system, as only significant to his specific arc? Wow.

My impression (which you don’t care about) is that the Force, as some cognizant entity with wants and desires, is intentionally made to be ambiguous. People believing it has a will of its own is the same as people praying to whatever god they believe in. Maybe someone’s listening, maybe not. The point is in the faith itself, not the provable reality of it. A belief, by it’s nature, will never be proof of anything. It wouldn’t be a ‘belief’ anymore.

But, given what George has had to say on the topic of ‘The Whills’, there’s a pretty solid chance that he’d side more with you though

Sheesh, you’re right. This is kind of a waste of time. You can have the last word if you’d like. I’ll pipe down

 

Poe has dialogue that says that the defeat of the Sith Fleet inspires the galaxy to rise up. No First Order leadership and they succumb more easily. Goes back to something I thought at end of TLJ. Yes the Resistance is in bad shape, but First Order not much better. They loose Starkiller base and many ships, manpower, equipment. Then the Supremacy and most of it the battle group in TLJ. Certainly Supreme Leader and his flagship had a huge escort. So whats left. Not a huge fleet, but enough to strike fear to a galaxy that had basically the entire New Republic fleet and Resistance destroyed. With the Sith Fleet and remainder of First Order leadership gone galaxy feels like each other will back each other up.

 

Opening Crawl: The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.

Rey: The First Order will control all the major systems within weeks.

I don’t know, man. TLJ sure made it sound like the FO was WAY more than the handful of ships we saw at Crait. That was like a year before this movie takes place.

I guess Supreme Leader Ren was just really bad at his job? Spent all his time looking for another map to another guy instead of building infrastructure? Psh, typical millennial.

 

As answered already it is implied in the TLJ novelization that the Caretakers have it on Ach-to

One thing I don’t quite understand is the importance people put on needing the answer to how Maz got the blue saber spelled out in the movies. The way it was handled in TFA was to say that is not important at this time. Han asking her how she got it is not because Han is that interested in it but because he is acting’s the viewer. The viewers first reaction when we see the saber is to wonder how did she get that so Han asks the question for us. Her answer “that is a story for another time” is meant to portray that it is not important at that time and to an extension of that, not important for the story moving forward.

That being said, in earlier drafts of TFA the lightsaber played a much larger role from the opening of the movie floating through space with Luke’s hand to the Forceback showing the different stops the saber made before getting to Maz. Obviously the Forceback changed a lot, the opening of the movie changed and the significance of the saber in the movie became less.

In the original Forceback, Maz took the saber off the battlefield when the “Clan” was using it against the KOR. Kylo ended up with it in his possession before Maz got it.

 

Yes, believe it or not I actually use the narrative to support my interpretation of the narrative. Your assessment of the sufficiency of the evidence doesn't negate the fact that I'm citing evidence from the actual narrative in order to support the interpretation of that narrative. So, do you have any evidence from the narrative to support your "impression" or are you simply reading your own personal philosophy (which I neither asked for nor am I interested in, relative to this specific discussion forum) into the narrative without any actual support from the narrative? It's the latter. That's why I'm not interested. It's nothing personal, it's just irrelevant. I'm only interested in discussion concerning the actual narrative.

Thanks for giving me the last word, it means a lot to me. Take it easy.

 

• How do we know Palpatine is truly dead? He exploded before and came back. I don't need any detailed expository dialogue, but there should have been a moment where we see his spirit beaten alongside his body, a few seconds of the Skywalker's ghosts beating his would have answered that question and would have felt a lot more satisfying. Just have a red force ghost appear from behind his exploding corpse, have Luke, Leia and Anakin appear one by one and each hold out a hand and make his spirit disappear and you bring closure to every storyline without diminishing Rey's arc. As it stands there is no reason why Palpatine cannot return again. Such a wasted opportunity.
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• Why did Sidious make Snoke? I know he likes to run things from the shadows but it's illogical. Just throw in a line about him hiding from Luke out of fear. it builds up Luke's character and gives us a reason why he's been hiding up until this point. We don't need a monologue, just one line, I don't get why they're so adverse to explaining bloody anything! "My boy...I made Snoke......A being with one purpose, to utilize the might of the first order to destroy Skywalker and the galaxys only hope while I await the true heir to the sith throne". something like that was all that was needed, as it is it feels like a rushed, ill thought out retcon

• Where did the healing power come from? I have no problem with Rey being the first force user to discover it, but at least build up to it, leave some clues or explain where it came from, why she can do it and no other force user can?. Or at least show her losing something when she heals Kylo or the worm. Make her extremely weakened after healing Kylo to foreshadow his death later on. This isn't a major change it just makes some sense to the audience. Ahhh it's not a super power its a lightside compassionate power that comes with a cost, ok cool, I understand it now!

• Explain Palpatine's sith essense transfer thing. i get it, it only works if the person striking him down has turned to the darkside, hence why the kill has to be performed in anger. It's not as simple as having hate for the sith you kill, your heart has to have turned for the sith to inhabit your spirit, but 99% of the audience wouldn't have got that and would have thought Palpatine was performing his played out Strike me down...sthick again for no logical reason. Again, this could have been made clear with literally seconds of dialogue.

I love the film but it's so frustrating knowing very simple ideas and fixes could have made the story feel more structured, cohesive and logical. Hollywood screenwriters really don't give the general audience much credit do they? People do stupid things but people aren't stupid in general, we could've handled some more expository dialogue without getting bored, zoning out and demanding more lasers, explosions and lightsaber fights.

Star wars is no longer a simple, fun action adventure film in a sci fi setting made for children, it stopped being that in 1980. I really wish these new films had a little bit more below the surface

 

Good points.

You do see a cue for a heal being taxing by Rey massaging her hand after the worm heal.
For all we know it could be localised pain from being a conduit for the life force transfer but yeah I don't remember seeing her being particularly weakened after her heals.

As for Hollywood screenwriters I feel they often do as well as could be expected given deadlines and time restraints.
The time alloted for screenplay writing seems to be the biggest/only weakness of the ST IMO.
The scarcity of time is a little sad considering the wealth of all other resources available for such big budget productions (and the esteem fans feel for the franchise).

 

I guess JJ lost 2 hours and a half to explain things that had in mind and he wanted to explain.
If he had directed all three, maybe he would have given those little answers that still remain. Although the answers still remain don't bother me so much. The important thing is I had a great time while watching TROS. Maybe answers will come in future projects (comics, shows, books, spinoffs...) cause there will be a lot of projects after this. Just hope the visual ones will be as competent as the last five movies.
Still think TROS give cool answers to the trilogy and saga and we can understand that some points can remain unknown.

 

I don’t know. That lid seemed awfully heavy. Like way heavier than the lid to a Pringles can. I know that’s where I’d have given up.

Maybe this was yet another impossible to find planet. What we didn’t see is that there were a half dozen other MacGuffins Kylo had to find first before he got there.

 

And it's wreckage . . . laying in turbulent water. It could have washed away in the next week as far as anyone knew

I'll be honest, I flat out LOVE this movie. I haven't laughed this hard at a flick in a long time . . . a long time