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Questions after watching TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Obi5Kenobi, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

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    How about the fact that the talisman has "make the staff X units of length" on one side and "also, subtract one unit" on the other side. Does that make sense? In the context of the plot, yes it does. Why? Because we need the Nazis to be digging in the wrong place due to the fact the glasses guy only had the first side burned into his palm. BUT, according to your "logic"? It's an example of poor filmmaking, true? The reason I'm wanting to hear you agree that to you it's poor filmmaking is so I can see you jump onto a bandwagon all by your lonesome. And I'm willing to wager you only like bandwagons loaded with other people.

    And Ochi is long dead. I guess you finally got enough rope for the self-hanging, huh?

    Did you see them in the story? No? That's your own personal dagger-clue that whoever they were, they're not significant to the story.

    What part of the word "loyalist" in "Sith loyalist" is not being understood?

    The rest of your post I don't care about. Like I said, all you wanted to do was disguise a criticism as a question so when someone with good intentions answered it you could launch into a series of criticisms and finger pointing. And what has happened over the past three posts? You started by side-stepping the answer and critcizing the dagger as "poor filmmaking", followed by accusing JJ Abrams of being incapable of making a "smart" movie. You then launched into full criticism of TROS by citing "this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous" and topped it all off by summarily criticizing the Sequel Trilogy as a whole. You then feigned being insulted that I would dare suggest you were dishonestly posing a question as a trap to get someone to answer it and allow you to springboard into this. Yet your own posts follow the exact intent of which I already hypothesized. Case closed.

    And if your follow up honest question looking for honest discussion is "Why would Sidious keep firing lightning when it was being redirected back into his face? Why would he not just stop?" My honest answer would be "You tell me."

    And as long as the honesty is freely flowing? When I saw your question, I already knew why you were asking it. I saw your trap. Figured it out. So I decided to spring it knowing full well you'd come running into my trap. Thanks for living up to my expectations.
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    @Obi5Kenobi, @iostream: play nice. if you can't talk to one another without the snark, don't talk at all. discuss the film, not each other, okay?
     
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  3. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    WBW also shows multiple doorways to get in and out from. Just because one door closes doesn't mean there isn't not another door to open. There is this little nugget from Ahsoka: "Just when you begin to know about the Force. You find out how little you actually know."
     
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  4. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebel Official

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    it shows multiple points, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re points that are accessible outside of the WBW.

    that said, i only like the WBW in that it gives the sense of time being closed and linear, with Ezra affecting an event that isn’t actually changing time. It’s add this layer to the Force and visions (can a vision actually be wrong?). I dislike that it can allow time travel, cause I’ve grown really tired of that concept.

    In the end, I find it an odd, and almost cheap feeling, thing to use to try and say Ahsoka could be really alive somehow during TROS, not helping the fight against the Emperor, and communicating at the exact time of the Jedi that came before that all happen to be dead, cause Filoni doesn’t want her dead. If that’s the case, don’t use her voice.

    that said, if he just means “hey, we’ll get more stories about her!” It can go any way. but with her voice there in that scene, I think it’d cheapen the situation and make it more confusing to instead say she’s still alive at that point in time
     
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  5. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Old Republic Citizen

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    I have a few questions regarding massive plot holes and common logic:

    1. If Palps created Snoke, apparently through bio-science, how could he create a powerful force user? That means that whenever you want you can create dozens of mighty force users. Snoke was really powerful, and we've seen it in TLJ what he's capable of.

    2. If Palps needed powerful force users to drain life from them so he could live again, all he needed was to create create 20 Snokes and drain all of their life/force.
    Of course, they cleverly secured this plot hole by suggesting that it's possible only if you drain from force diade, whatever that's supposed to be.

    3. Palpatine had a son, and his son had a daughter Rey. So how is it possible that Rey is mighty powerful force user just by being related to Palps, and her father was not? I'm asking that because we know that a sith antiques dealer Ocho kills Palpatine's SON by stabbing him to death. The EMPEROR'S SON couldn't defend himself against mediocre guy and yet Rey slashes everything and everyone through the whole saga.
     
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  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Baseless speculation time!! Well, figuratively, Snoke is just Palp’s puppet. Could be that he’s also literally that. Maybe the Force abilities we see aren’t really his own, but only an aspect of old Sheevo Zappyhands. How? Space magic. It’s all trippy and stuff.
    >>IF<< the puppet thing is in any way legit, then Palpo would only be taking his own power back. A net zero gain.
    There once was this guy named - oh, let’s say ‘Jeff’. Jeff had a son, and his son had a daughter. So how is it possible that daughter has brown eyes just by being related to Jeff, and her father doesn’t?

    Maybe Sheev Jr. was a collection of recessive genes. Not the craziest premise of all time.
     
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  8. JediJarJar

    JediJarJar Rebelscum

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    Luke Skywalker knew of Palpatine on Exogol but nevertheless went to Ahch-To to die?
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    ‘Ahch, tutu - DIE!!’ - A Scotsman who strongly hates ballerinas.

    Seriously though, Luke knew about creepy mecha-palp there on planet doom? I guess I missed that part.
     
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  10. JediJarJar

    JediJarJar Rebelscum

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    Thats how i understood it.perhaps someone can provide clarification.
     
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  11. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    We know from TFA and TLJ that Luke and Leia both considered Snoke the one pulling the strings. It would be weird if either actually knew that it was really that Palpotron 5000 calling the shots. Leia knew that Rey was grandbaby Sidious. Luke, as a spooky blue poltergeist, knew that too. I don’t recall more specifics beyond that.
     
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  12. Mbruno

    Mbruno Rebelscum

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    Luke knowing about Rey Palpatine in TLJ is also a retcon, I think. When Luke asked Rey in TLJ who she was, it doesn’t look to me that he had any clue and nothing in his dialogue or interaction with Rey in TLJ suggests that either. At best, he sensed Rey could be potentially dangerous, but a Palpatine, I don’t think so.

    Leia on the other hand could have known more about Rey than she let transpire right from TFA. In fact, I remember many fan theories about that at the time TFA was released and many fans understandably expected those issues to be addressed in TLJ. RIan Johnson, however, had other plans and a different agenda to “ subvert” the trilogy.

    It appears to me that many of the plot points in TROS were ideas that were considered for future films at the time of TFA, but RJ never followed up on them, or were new plot points that were introduced to salvage the trilogy from the “ subversion” of Episode VIII.

    I hope one day we get a candid account from JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy of what happened behind the scenes, although I am not counting on it.
     
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  13. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    One of the questions bouncing around my head since watching TROS is where fan service fits in.
    Sometimes it lands with me and other times it makes me wince or takes me out of the story.

    Is there a “right” way to apply it? (e.g. when it serves both the characters and the audience well?)

    Is there a ”right” amount to apply? (e.g. not too liberally?)
     
    #133 Moral Hazard, Jan 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  14. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    So could Night Sister magic (or whatever the canon word for it is) be the reason why Palpatine 'survived'? If everything is canon, this could be the easiest explanation. I mean, it's certainly curious... Palpatine kinda looked 'undead'.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    It could be. But then it should have been in the film as well. It's a pretty big step.
     
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  16. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebel Official

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    I don’t remember, was it that he knew Palpatine was there, or just was looking for Exegol? The trail ended up going cold on Pasaan, and perhaps this was tied around when he was starting his academy. If he knew about Palpatine being there, Perhaps he was not just training a new order of Jedi in general, but preparing Force users in advance for Palpatine before Ben turned on him, and then they saw Snoke and just thought it was him.


    My speculation:
    1) Snoke was just a puppet that had a portion of Palpatine’s essence in him, thus the Force Power.

    2) Same as above, if just a puppet with his essence in it, it wouldn’t do much good. It also seemed to be specifically Rey and Ben’s dyad Bond That aided his regeneration.

    3) maybe skipped a generation? Perhaps the will of the Force itself played a hand there in keeping Palpatine from returning that way, instead giving a chance for his granddaughter to learn to be a Jedi. Much like how it is said to have brought about Anakin as, I believe, a counter or balancing point against Sidious.
     
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  17. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Amateurs that is why.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    There is a right way.
    It has to serve the story and characters, or be so inconsequential it wouldn't matter at all.
    An example of the former is Yoda being a puppet and behaving like Dagobah Yoda. It's a wonderful fan service moment to have the return of puppet Yoda but it's also a beautiful meaningful story beat.
    An example of the latter is in Rogue One when they call for General Syndulla over the coms. It's a wonderful moment of fan service that rewards consumers of all SW media. But the film doesn't bog itself down to highlight it.....which brings us to.....
    The wrong way is also in Rogue One. Ponda Baba and Dr. Cornelius Evazan. The movie screeches to a brief halt so you can see these two. Because look! Star Wars! It doesn't serve the story or a character it just brings it to a halt for you to recognize them.

    And I also think there is a right amount. This is trickier IMO. You need enough for fans to feel rewarded for knowing it but not so much it bogs down the story and characters.
     
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  19. Martoto

    Martoto Force Sensitive

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    Lando had been there before on a relic hunt with Luke and the festival was only every 42 years so he didn’t want to miss out. He recognised Chewie.

    It’s not explained but apparently whatever happened to Palpatine after he disappeared from view down the shaft didn’t utterly destroy him.
     
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  20. Mbruno

    Mbruno Rebelscum

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    Chris Terrio said that Palpatine’s old body effectively died in RoTJ . Furthermore, he made an explicit distinction between that body and , to use his own words, “ the entity known as Palpatine” in TROS.

    The exact mechanism used to apparently partially regenerate Palpatine’s body belongs to the realm of “ dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew.” Until further explanation is provided in supplemental material or future content, all theories that have been discussed here are pure speculation.
     
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