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Questions after watching TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Obi5Kenobi, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Philo

    Philo Rebelscum

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    Indeed the right way is when it's not distracting, when it doesn't slow down the movie. IMO fan service doesn't make the movies worse, neither does it improve them.
     
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  2. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Official

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    I just think these two sentences going together are quite entertaining.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---
    I like your analysis about right and wrong fan service, but I'm not sure about there being a right amount, and that's mainly because of The Mandalorian. It is so full of "fan service," but it is handled so well that it takes nothing away and arguably adds quite a lot.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I'd argue that it isn't handled THAT well in Mando and it does at time bog down the show as the story essentially stops to make sure it has a Tattooine episode that led no where.

    But I digress. There is a right and wrong amount. It's not a constant number or anything, but for a movie what is too much isn't too much for a show spanning 6 hours.
     
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  4. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    Quoting iostream here:

    How about the fact that the talisman has "make the staff X units of length" on one side and "also, subtract one unit" on the other side. Does that make sense? In the context of the plot, yes it does. Why? Because we need the Nazis to be digging in the wrong place due to the fact the glasses guy only had the first side burned into his palm. BUT, according to your "logic"? It's an example of poor filmmaking, true? The reason I'm wanting to hear you agree that to you it's poor filmmaking is so I can see you jump onto a bandwagon all by your lonesome. And I'm willing to wager you only like bandwagons loaded with other people.

    I'll jump on the lonely bandwagon. If ANY movie, including your beloved Raiders of the Lost Ark, creates something that serves no purpose other than to give characters something to do or look for or whatever, and that thing's original purpose can't be determined, it's poor filmmaking. You've lost the wager. The number of occupants in my bandwagon doesn't matter to me, only power seats and windows. Heated seats are also appreciated and good AC.

    I know you're likely going to say that we do know the purpose of the dagger, it shows you where the wayfinder is. True. I'm wondering, just wondering out loud, spitballing, why would such a thing exist? Sure, it does what it's supposed to do, shows you the location of the wayfinder, but why would it have been made? Just wonderin', that's all.

    The difference between this and the talisman is that we don't know enough about the talisman to know if it makes sense or not. The Sith were all gone, so who would be around to make the dagger and know the location of the wayfinder? There's no complimentary circumstance with the talisman in Raiders. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it to exist, but there's no reason for it not to exist, as with the dagger.





    And Ochi is long dead. I guess you finally got enough rope for the self-hanging, huh?

    You got me. I forgot that Ochi crafted the dagger himself. Wait a second, I didn't forget. We don't know that Ochi created the dagger, unless by your logic, anyone who possesses something is assumed to have created it. Like how Han created the Falcon, Lando created the falcon, Luke created his blue saber and Rey created Luke's blue saber and so on.


    What part of the word "loyalist" in "Sith loyalist" is not being understood?

    I get who they are, but the Sith were all dead after ROTJ. The "Rule of Two" has been hitting us over the head since TPM. Now there are Sith Loyalists, out of nowhere. I, personally, find the idea of a secret planet full of Sith followers that have never, ever been mentioned before appearing in the final movie of a long series of movies sloppy. That's my opinion, feel free to tell me my opinion is wrong though.


    The rest of your post I don't care about.

    LOL

    Like I said, all you wanted to do was disguise a criticism as a question so when someone with good intentions answered it you could launch into a series of criticisms and finger pointing. And what has happened over the past three posts? You started by side-stepping the answer and critcizing the dagger as "poor filmmaking", followed by accusing JJ Abrams of being incapable of making a "smart" movie. You then launched into full criticism of TROS by citing "this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous" and topped it all off by summarily criticizing the Sequel Trilogy as a whole. You then feigned being insulted that I would dare suggest you were dishonestly posing a question as a trap to get someone to answer it and allow you to springboard into this. Yet your own posts follow the exact intent of which I already hypothesized. Case closed.

    And if your follow up honest question looking for honest discussion is "Why would Sidious keep firing lightning when it was being redirected back into his face? Why would he not just stop?" My honest answer would be "You tell me."

    I'll tell you but you won't like it.... Poor filmmaking. The smartest buy in the galaxy who took over and ruled everyone can't figure out that he's being killed by his own lightning and stop killing himself?

    And as long as the honesty is freely flowing? When I saw your question, I already knew why you were asking it. I saw your trap. Figured it out. So I decided to spring it knowing full well you'd come running into my trap. Thanks for living up to my expectations.

    Wait, who jumps out of the rabbit?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---

    Guilty. :oops:
     
  5. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Official

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    You appear to be assuming that spurs-boots doesn't come back in a meaningful way in season 2. BTW, I agree that is a weaker episode, and am mostly just focusing on your "led no where" comment.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---
    Obi5, I agree with your questions about the dagger (a clear McGuffin) and the planet full of Sith loyalists. Neither of those things make a lot of sense. However, even though I am one to let details like that bother me, for some reason I didn't with TROS either time I saw it, and I think that is because the movie is so fun and parts of it are so satisfying that I got swept up in that. Watching TLJ, every single time I get lost in all the things that drive me crazy, and I think part of that is because it's not as "fun" of a ride for me to get swept up in.
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    It could down the line sure. But it'd be the same as some of the lines in ANH being made important 30 years later or a random line in a Marvel movie being made into a plot later. It's superfluous at the time and whether or not it matters later is kind of irrelevant. If that was the *entire* point of that episode, it's bad story telling and time allotment given there were only 8 40 (being generous) minute episodes.
     
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  7. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    There's a lot of fun, cool stuff in TROS and I enjoyed it more the second time. I really like Rey and Finn. I could watch stories with Daisy Ridley playing Rey forever. She was awesome. I liked what Adam Driver did, but thought that Kylo Ren was handled poorly in general. I didn't give a damn about Poe in TFA but now I really like him. For me it has some really high highs but unfortunately some really low lows.
     
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  8. Rodney-2187

    Rodney-2187 Guest

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    When Rey stabs Kylo and then heals him, does the scar on his face go away as well? Someone told me it did. If it does, I missed it. Need to see it a fifth time when I get over this chest cold!
     
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  9. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I find the mere existence of Palpatine's son to have been handled extremely poorly. How utterly unimportant he was is baffling. There's no story about him at all. We know nothing about him and he's the child of one of the main characters in the entire saga. It's just another out-of-left-field element from TROS.

    Here's a list of the things introduced in TROS for the first time without any previous build up or hints:

    Palpatine lives
    Palpatine had a son
    Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter
    Finn is force sensitive
    Sith Loyalists
    Sith planet
    Snoke was a clone/other creation (if not a clone of an existing person)
    Force dyad

    Anyone know anything else that was introduced for the first time ever in this movie?
     
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  10. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    This.

    This is something that I think I need a clear explanation. Everything is so cloudy to me regarding the Emperor.

    The Palpatine that we see in TROS is the same one who died in ROTJ? Or he is just a clone with the spirit of old Palpatine?
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    It seems mostly up for interpretation.
    Which is kinda flimsy given they made it so important with no set up.

    If you bring back a dead character you should put the effort into their coming back fitting in the story
     
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  12. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Official

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    It absolutely does!
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---
    I think it was certainly "hinted" in ROTS that Palpatine knows something about life after death.

    While this wasn't explicitly hinted at, he did handle a lightsaber in combat in TFA, which is something no one has ever done in the saga without a connection to the force.

    Wasn't it mentioned that Snoke's forces came from the "outer regions" or something like that?

    People who know TCW better than me, was this something that was kind of introduced in the Mortis Arc?
     
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  13. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    To me, Palpatine hinting that he knows the secrets of life and death in ROTS didn't hint at his return in TROS. That's what I meant, him being alive in TROS, specifically. Sorry if that wasn't written well originally.

    I sort of agree with the Finn thing. However, he's the only person put in a situation necessary to wield a saber in a combat situation. It's not like we've seen some other character try to use one and fail, indicating that there's something special about Finn. Wait, isn't Grievous evidence that non force users can successfully wield light sabers in combat?

    Snoke's forces potentially coming from the outer regions doesn't, in my opinion, hint at a Sith planet or Sith Loyalists. I thought that TFA and TLJ made it clear that Snoke and Ren weren't Sith. I got the impression that whatever Snoke and Ren were, they were supposed to be distinctly separate from the Sith.
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I always thought the lesson to be, evil can't cheat death but the good can.
    Anakin couldn't save Padme because he was being selfish and possessive.
    Ben can save Rey because he acted selflessly.
    Feels like it kind of weakens things, to me.

    Grievous is not able to use the force in anyway. So yeah. That theory is sort of debunked. Plus Han totally whipped that tauntaun.

    This feels like it was almost explicitly said by people before the film.
     
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  15. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I was torn between a "like" and a "funny" because of the Han comment. "Like" won the coin toss.
     
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  16. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Official

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    Fair point about Grievous. I get the criticism of TROS, and I'm kind of surprised by how little it detracts from my enjoyment, considering how hard it is for me to watch TLJ. It's weird being an obsessive SW fan.
     
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  17. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebel Official

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    While side media, the canon Star Wars comics between ANH and ESB had Han, Leia, and maybe even Chewie using lightsabers from a Jedi relic collecting Hutt cause their blasters stopped working (along with the blasters of the Stormtroopers they were fighting)

    all I can think of here is “Kessel run in under 12 parsecs” -> Solo.
     
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  18. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    m... m.... me
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I just realized that, although I’ve been posting in this thread, I hadn’t actually thought to pose the biggest unresolved question I had coming out of this movie. It centers around the contrivance of Palpatine possessing Rey and its conditions. The film doesn’t dwell much on that, and for good reason, it’s the concept that matters more than the logistics. It’s about the theme of the premise rather than the practicality of it. . . . . But let's ask it anyway :)

    The foundation is that if Rey strikes old Palpie pants down in anger (using the darkside), then he can inhabit her body. Makes some semblance of sense. Goes with the larger themes of the series: even condonable deeds can be corrosive if executed under dark motivation (slippery slope). My immediate question with that reveal though (other than why he’d make a point of telling her that*), was what would happen if she instead struck him down in . . . you know . . . NOT anger?

    Like with the noble intentions of defending the scores of innocent people that were sure to suffer at this guy’s hands had he persisted - an act of protection rather than aggression. Then what? He possesses her anyway? The Sith are defeated without needing that collective Jedi pep talk? I haven’t seen this discussed much. But I might be looking in the wrong places.

    Is the position we’re supposed to land on here that she wasn’t capable of acting in that regard? That executing someone for the greater good is wrong regardless - like Luke contemplating kid Ben’s demise - or Anakin ‘retiring’ Count Chocula - or Mace giving Palps that extreme makeover? Is it simply considered wrong to judge who should live and who should die no matter the case? This might be a discussion all its own though.

    *More of a rhetorical question. I get that it’s a super villain monologue there for the benefit of the audience instead of the characters. Still though, Sheev, buddy, you really gotta stop giving people reasons not to do the thing you want them to do, man. This is why you keep losing :D
     
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  20. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Official

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    I just watched a trailer for the new Amazon show Hunters and it got me thinking about similar things.
     
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